Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

[surgi]

My friend , either you are justifying the new citizenship law or you are trying to make sense of it! In both ways, you are ignoring the right of mobility mentioned in the constitution.
The right of mobility not only is mentioned in the Canadian constitution but also almost all countries in the world agree with it.
If Canada is going to push each permanent resident in Canada, they should think about the job market or so many other things.
The immigration - except for refugees suffering from wars or something - should work for both sides : immigrants and Canada. Canada takes immigrant to profit their knowledge and experience and we immigrate to Canada to profit freedom and facilities such as fair job market and passport.
I'm surprised when some people say this guy or that guy is a passport seeker! This guy or that guy who is a passport seeker has already paid the TAX here, spend around 5 years and paid from his pocket.
So if you see this phenomena from different angle, you will see something else.
And one more thing my friend, we shouldn't try to justify laws and rules against human rights codes or constitution. Honestly, some of my friends and families are affected by the new law and they will need to wait one more year here to apply for their citizenship which is bothering. I thought the government has right to change this sort of rule for example makes it longer or more difficult BUT "Revoking" citizenship and "Intent to reside" are not tolerable because they are unconstitutional!
Thanks,

I think you misunderstood me. I am against this Bill totally. I realize that cons are playing a big game. They understand that their chances to win the next federal election is weak. Since 5 years they decreasing the number of new citizens in a very strange way. Look at this page
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/data-release/2013-Q3/index.asp

the number of applications are increasing and the number of offered citizenship in gradual decrease (look at the row of NEW CANADIAN CITIZENS) .This explains the huge backlog created. In 2013 333,860 applied for citizenship and that the greatest number in the history of CIC. With the backlog they have that would make around 700,0000 application till the end of 2013. We did not talk about 2014 yet!!! Imagine if this number got citizenship before October 2015!! this would be a catastrophe for the cons.They are doing their best to prevent the majority of this number of immigrants to be naturalized before the elections and be able to vote. I imagine cons realize that any NDP or liberal win in the next election will change this Bill not only because it is against human rights and unconstitutional but also because it will bring hundreds of thousands of voters to their voting polls!!! If this happens the cons will be the most stupid political strategics as they offered their enemies a wonderful gift!!!!

 

[paw339]

Surgi I apologise if came across as insensitive to your situation. My sister in law is in a similar situation to you as she is a qualified dentist but can't practice, so has had to retrain as a dental hygienist to find employment but she knew that was likely to be the situation before she came to Canada.

The Canadian immigration system is rules based which has the advantage that it helps to avoid discrimination but consequently has the disadvantage that it can't react to individual circumstances. The intend to reside clause has been bought in to stop certain abuses of the system.

 

[anon123]

Surgi I apologise if came across as insensitive to your situation. My sister in law is in a similar situation to you as she is a qualified dentist but can't practice, so has had to retrain as a dental hygienist to find employment but she knew that was likely to be the situation before she came to Canada.

The Canadian immigration system is rules based which has the advantage that it helps to avoid discrimination but consequently has the disadvantage that it can't react to individual circumstances. The intend to reside clause has been bought in to stop certain abuses of the system.

Surgi and and your sister in law are perfect examples of the failure of the FSW program. Honestly the cons expect you to become a taxi driver right now. That's all they are offering you.

The truth is people like Surgi should have never been allowed to apply for PR on the first place: why bring to Canada people who have no chance of integrating and contributing to society? Just so you can blame them later for trying to do something useful with their skills like finding a job where they can find one? Surgi's immigration costs money both to us, the taxpayers, and to Surgi and his family. The best solution is to remove the unconstitutional intent to reside and also end the FSW program. This program was originally introduced by the liberals who never intended for immigrants to be successful in Canada, instead they were hoping that the second generation (immigrants' children) will be an asset to Canada. That's why points are given for degrees which have no value in the Canadian economy, because educated parents are expected to bring up (Canadian) educated children.

And I agree that "residency for tax purposes" is likely to be the main decision factor when revoking citizenship. It may not start right away, but one day when pension costs and healthcare increase, the minister at that time can easily revoke citizenships of those who don't pay tax or collect pension without having paid tax most of their lives.
Another case may be for people who become very successful abroad on the basis of their Canadian citizenship. One beautiful day they may get a call from the TaxMan: "start paying tax to Canada or lose it all".

 

[vic48912]

Good to know know the legal battle have begun...

Kudos to Rocco Galati and other lawyers for their legal challenge against this bizarre law......sad tax payers that will foot this bill when Harper and his hicks try to defend this indefensible law in court

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/25/bill-c-24-citizenship-act-rocco-galati-chris-alexander_n_5530582.html

 

[Empirical-Scientist]

Folks, let's avoid personal attacks. Every person has the right to immigrate for a better life. C-24 will be sent to the Supreme Court and most likely some provisions of the law will be deemed unconstitutional. This was raised by NDP members during the House debates. Until then, we will have to wait.

 

[surgi]

Surgi I apologise if came across as insensitive to your situation. My sister in law is in a similar situation to you as she is a qualified dentist but can't practice, so has had to retrain as a dental hygienist to find employment but she knew that was likely to be the situation before she came to Canada.

The Canadian immigration system is rules based which has the advantage that it helps to avoid discrimination but consequently has the disadvantage that it can't react to individual circumstances. The intend to reside clause has been bought in to stop certain abuses of the system.

Well that is the choice of your sister to downgrade her professional level, we can respect that as it is her own choice. But it is a good prove that the system of immigration in Canada is broken. It is meaningless when you accept doctors,dentists and pharmacists because you need such highly qualified professions and then ask them after arrival to Canada to downgrade their professional level ( I am talking about study and technical levels,not social or even financial ,because simply the study of such professions are time ,efforts and money consuming). Nobody can understand what is happening.In Ontario alone there are 7000 medical doctors who are not working or doing other jobs. Still the ministry of immigration bringing more doctors based on the same system of immigration without any step to help those already in Canada to overcome the obstacles created by the college of physicians and surgeons to prevent more doctors enter the system. I have seen many practicing doctors here who told me that the college would like to keep shortage in doctors because that keeps the income high for who are in actual practice. I did my post graduate studies in France and one day I decided to go back to my home country. The chief of the department was trying to convince me to stay in France but I decided to go. He told me that if I leave France while I am needed there it is a big economic loss,because my post graduate study costs France 500,000 Euro. It is like a big investment . Imagine that you built a a house which costs 500,000 dollars will you use it as house to enjoy living in it ot will you use it as a store to stock goods in it?? If you need to build a store it will cost you only 50,000 . You can not consider me as an example all immigrants should follow as well as you can not consider your sister as an example we should follow!!

 

[anon123]

Well that is the choice of your sister to downgrade her professional level, we can respect that as it is her own choice. But it is a good prove that the system of immigration in Canada is broken. It is meaningless when you accept doctors,dentists and pharmacists because you need such highly qualified professions and then ask them after arrival to Canada to downgrade their professional level ( I am talking about study and technical levels,not social or even financial ,because simply the study of such professions are time ,efforts and money consuming). Nobody can understand what is happening.In Ontario alone there are 7000 medical doctors who are not working or doing other jobs. Still the ministry of immigration bringing more doctors based on the same system of immigration without any step to help those already in Canada to overcome the obstacles created by the college of physicians and surgeons to prevent more doctors enter the system. I have seen many practicing doctors here who told me that the college would like to keep shortage in doctors because that keeps the income high for who are in actual practice. I did my post graduate studies in France and one day I decided to go back to my home country. The chief of the department was trying to convince me to stay in France but I decided to go. He told me that if I leave France while I am needed there it is a big economic loss,because my post graduate study costs France 500,000 Euro. It is like a big investment . Imagine that you built a a house which costs 500,000 dollars will you use it as house to enjoy living in it ot will you use it as a store to stock goods in it?? If you need to build a store it will cost you only 50,000 . You can not consider me as an example all immigrants should follow as well as you can not consider your sister as an example we should follow!!

Is it the same situation with being unable to get licensed in all provinces and territories? If it is a local Ontario problem we can't really blame CIC. My point for the future remains nevertheless: Job First, PR Second. Instead of giving out PRs give subsidized tuition like France and "jobseeker visas" like New Zealand.

 

[pl840502]

That's not fair, what about people who's non tax resident but he/she also has no intent to ask for pension or healthcare

the whole problem is those who become citizen leave the country and come back years later to collect pension and to use the health system whiout paying their canadian taxes for years cause they don't live in canada

 

[glowingheart]

Folks, let's avoid personal attacks. Every person has the right to immigrate for a better life. C-24 will be sent to the Supreme Court and most likely some provisions of the law will be deemed unconstitutional. This was raised by NDP members during the House debates. Until then, we will have to wait.

all he is fighting is that is unconstitutional to strip a Canada born citizen of it citizenship
not the rest of us

 

[glowingheart]

That's not fair, what about people who's non tax resident but he/she also has no intent to ask for pension or healthcare

in canada everybody has the healthcare
every citizen has a cost
why acquire a citizenship if you are not willing to live in that country?

 

[sazamizi]

Dear Surgi,

I am so sorry . This was a response to paw339 to support your ideas but mistakenly I quoted you.
So paw339, please my notes about your previous thread

Thanks guys,
S.

I think you misunderstood me. I am against this Bill totally. I realize that cons are playing a big game. They understand that their chances to win the next federal election is weak. Since 5 years they decreasing the number of new citizens in a very strange way. Look at this page
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/data-release/2013-Q3/index.asp

the number of applications are increasing and the number of offered citizenship in gradual decrease (look at the row of NEW CANADIAN CITIZENS) .This explains the huge backlog created. In 2013 333,860 applied for citizenship and that the greatest number in the history of CIC. With the backlog they have that would make around 700,0000 application till the end of 2013. We did not talk about 2014 yet!!! Imagine if this number got citizenship before October 2015!! this would be a catastrophe for the cons.They are doing their best to prevent the majority of this number of immigrants to be naturalized before the elections and be able to vote. I imagine cons realize that any NDP or liberal win in the next election will change this Bill not only because it is against human rights and unconstitutional but also because it will bring hundreds of thousands of voters to their voting polls!!! If this happens the cons will be the most stupid political strategics as they offered their enemies a wonderful gift!!!!

 

[glowingheart]

Well that is the choice of your sister to downgrade her professional level, we can respect that as it is her own choice. But it is a good prove that the system of immigration in Canada is broken. It is meaningless when you accept doctors,dentists and pharmacists because you need such highly qualified professions and then ask them after arrival to Canada to downgrade their professional level ( I am talking about study and technical levels,not social or even financial ,because simply the study of such professions are time ,efforts and money consuming). Nobody can understand what is happening.In Ontario alone there are 7000 medical doctors who are not working or doing other jobs. Still the ministry of immigration bringing more doctors based on the same system of immigration without any step to help those already in Canada to overcome the obstacles created by the college of physicians and surgeons to prevent more doctors enter the system. I have seen many practicing doctors here who told me that the college would like to keep shortage in doctors because that keeps the income high for who are in actual practice. I did my post graduate studies in France and one day I decided to go back to my home country. The chief of the department was trying to convince me to stay in France but I decided to go. He told me that if I leave France while I am needed there it is a big economic loss,because my post graduate study costs France 500,000 Euro. It is like a big investment . Imagine that you built a a house which costs 500,000 dollars will you use it as house to enjoy living in it ot will you use it as a store to stock goods in it?? If you need to build a store it will cost you only 50,000 . You can not consider me as an example all immigrants should follow as well as you can not consider your sister as an example we should follow!!

hey man I agree with you

 

[sazamizi]

So many grand parents and old people who haven't ever worked and paid their taxes in Canada , are taking advantage of healthcare system (really you call it healthcare system?!?!) . So what's the point that we work and pay tax for them?
So your argumentation is basically weak.

in canada everybody has the healthcare
every citizen has a cost
why acquire a citizenship if you are not willing to live in that country?

 

[surgi]

Dear Surgi,

I am so sorry . This was a response to paw339 to support your ideas but mistakenly I quoted you.
So paw339, please my notes about your previous thread

Thanks guys,
S.

I did not attack him/her. I just discussing I do not see any offense in my reply!!!

 

[surgi]

Is it the same situation with being unable to get licensed in all provinces and territories? If it is a local Ontario problem we can't really blame CIC. My point for the future remains nevertheless: Job First, PR Second. Instead of giving out PRs give subsidized tuition like France and "jobseeker visas" like New Zealand.

to understand the problem please watch this videos

OK, just take a look if you have time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ-dVa0GJ_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ4b8Dl5STo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FewZR89FQE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dr4XRs889I