Applying to renew an expired pr card for the second time

[iggypick]

Hi everybody

I became permanent resident of Canada on august 1st 2006.
I had been living and working in Canada from june 2004.
My pr card expired on august 16 th 2011
During the first five years of being permanent resident i have been absent from Canada 1086 days, so i did meet my residency obligations for the first five year period by 9 days, oops!
On may 12th 2011 i applied for a new card, i left Canada in august 2011.
By the end of october 2011 i got the letter from immigration to pick up my new card.
I was and still am abroad so i failed to pick up the card within the 8 month period.

Now i have to apply for a new card, and will do so when i get back to Canada in September, my question?

When filling out the new application do i count the number of days of being absent from Canada for the first five year period, starting from the day i became permanent resident?
Does the new five year period starts on the day that my old card ends

If so can i fill out the papers the same as the first application?

If not will i have to count five years back from the date of mailing the application?
Is the residency obligation for any five year period?

thanks
iggy
Which will mean that i will not meet the residency obligation.

 

[scylla]

You count five years back from the date you mail the application. If will not meet residency obligations when you first return to Canada, then don't apply as soon as you return. Live in Canada until you meet the residency obligation and then apply to renew your card.

 

[Leon]

Agreed with Scylla. You should meet the obligation in the last 5 years counting back from the day you apply to renew your PR card.

 

[karenps]

Hi Iggypick,
I am hoping you can answer my question. How did you get back into Canada without your PR card? Did you apply for a travel document?

Also, since you just made the minimum vcut off for residency days, did they send your application to the local CIC office? Did you get a notice saying your file was transferred to the local CIC office?

My parents' file was transferred to the local CIC office. They were out for 1092 (max is 1095 days, as you know) days. Really hope to hear from you.

Thanks!
Karen

 

[iggypick]

Hi Iggypick,
I am hoping you can answer my question. How did you get back into Canada without your PR card? Did you apply for a travel document?

Also, since you just made the minimum vcut off for residency days, did they send your application to the local CIC office? Did you get a notice saying your file was transferred to the local CIC office?

My parents' file was transferred to the local CIC office. They were out for 1092 days. Really hope to hear from you.

Thanks!
Karen

Hi Karen
My Pr card ws still valid when i entered Canada, in april 2011, i applied for my new card in may that same year, but left Canada one month prior before receiving the invitation to pick up my new card.
When i enter Canada next month i will fly on a return ticket, since i am a national from a visa exempt country with a pasport i do not expect any problems.
Yes they did sent my new card to the local cic office which is normal procedure, and i got the invitation from them to pick up the card.
Good luck
Iggy

 

[iggypick]

Agreed with Scylla. You should meet the obligation in the last 5 years counting back from the day you apply to renew your PR card.

Ok just wondering, does that mean i have temporarely lost my PR status? ( at this moment) although i have met my residency obligations for the first five year period?

 

[karenps]

Hi Iggy,
Thank you so much for your response!

I am no expert (there are many on this forum), but from all that I've researched and read, as long as you can show you were IN Canada for 730 days (2 years) in the last 5 years from the day you apply for your PR card, you should be fine and you have not lost your status. So if you apply tomorrow, you'll have to show that 5 years ago from Aug 27, 2012 (so Aug 27, 2007), you were in Canada for 730 days.

Hope this helps. Thanks again for your message. Good luck with everything!

Keenjal

 

[Leon]

Ok just wondering, does that mean i have temporarely lost my PR status? ( at this moment) although i have met my residency obligations for the first five year period?

You haven't officially lost it because immigration is not aware at this moment that you do not meet the residency requirements. However, if you were to attract their attention to that, say for example you were to apply for a travel document in order to go back to Canada, you could lose your PR.

 

[iggypick]

Hi Iggy,
Thank you so much for your response!

I am no expert (there are many on this forum), but from all that I've researched and read, as long as you can show you were IN Canada for 730 days (2 years) in the last 5 years from the day you apply for your PR card, you should be fine and you have not lost your status. So if you apply tomorrow, you'll have to show that 5 years ago from Aug 27, 2012 (so Aug 27, 2007), you were in Canada for 730 days.

Hope this helps. Thanks again for your message. Good luck with everything!

Keenjal

You're very welcome Karen!
I hope everything will work out well with your parents, i think they should be in good standing with immigration.

But getting back to my issue, if i were to apply today, and count the days for the last five years, fom the day that i would submit my application i would fail to comply with my pr obligation, although i would be fine if i would start counting for the first five year period.

However, if immigration looks back any given five year period?
Would that mean if i were to for instance return to Canada 8 years from now, stay for two years, submit my application, i would comply with the 730 day obligation, and be honoured with a new pr card?

 

[iggypick]

You haven't officially lost it because immigration is not aware at this moment that you do not meet the residency requirements. However, if you were to attract their attention to that, say for example you were to apply for a travel document in order to go back to Canada, you could lose your PR.

Thank you for the hint Leon, i am from a visa exempt country, so i probably do not need a traveldocument.
So does this mean that as long as immigration is not aware you do not lose your status a a permanent resident?
Government officials from the provincial nominee program have always told me that the five year rule applies for the first five year period, and you keep your status for live after that period.is that true?
Is the pr card just intended for travel outside Canada by commercial vessel/plane/bus?

 

[iggypick]

Just to clarify my situation.

My absence from Canada was for health reason's, if i had not had these problems i would have never left.
In Canada if you lose your consience for any unknown reason you're not allowed to drive a car.
Unfortunately this is what happened to me for no obvious reason.
I had been in a coma for a few days and after having been released from the hospital it was not clear what was wrong with me, so i needed more visits to get to the nearest hospial from my house.
In my home town, there was a waiting list of up to two years, so i opted for the next town which was approximately 150 kilometers, and a waiting list of 6 months.
However i was in the situation not allowed to drive a vehicle, not being able to show up for work within a 30 day period means you lose your job, and not being able to get treatment in a hospital.
In my homecountry these rules do not apply, so it was more practical to return there, get a job and receive treatment in the meantime, but this takes time, and during this period i might have or not have lost my pr status, or not?

 

[Leon]

However, if immigration looks back any given five year period?
Would that mean if i were to for instance return to Canada 8 years from now, stay for two years, submit my application, i would comply with the 730 day obligation, and be honoured with a new pr card?

That is exactly how it works. As long as you gain entry to Canada without being reported on entry for not meeting the requirements, you can stay for 2 years, meet the requirements again and renew your PR card. If you do get reported on entry and this doesn't seem to happen often but can happen, immigration will say, ok, we know you don't meet the residency requirements so we are going to start the proceedings to revoke your PR. They still let you in but give you 30 days to appeal this. If immigration doesn't like your reasons for being gone, they deny your appeal and you lose your PR.

For the most part, people who are staying for 2 years to meet the requirements again get away with it as long as they don't attract the attention of immigration in some other manner. There is a lady on this forum who recently posted that she won her PR appeal. She had gotten in and was doing her 2 years but applied to sponsor her husband and child during that time. Immigration saw that she did not meet the requirements and called her for an interview to discuss her own PR status. In her circumstances, having good reasons to be gone so long and now being well settled, with a job, house etc. they let her keep her PR.

 

[Leon]

So does this mean that as long as immigration is not aware you do not lose your status a a permanent resident?
Government officials from the provincial nominee program have always told me that the five year rule applies for the first five year period, and you keep your status for live after that period.is that true?
Is the pr card just intended for travel outside Canada by commercial vessel/plane/bus?

As long as they are not aware, you could keep your status for years. A while ago, someone on this forum posted that his son who was a PR but left Canada with him as a child to live in the US had in his adult life gone to Canada for a short vacation with some friends. Immigration realized that he had PR status and gave him a long lecture about not meeting the requirements and having lost his PR and told him that he must renounce his PR at a Canadian embassy when he gets back. However, he was not reported. This seems to be a pretty common story. If he would have wanted to, he could have just stayed for 2 years and his PR status would have been back in good standing.

The 5 year rule applies for your first 5 years as a PR and after that every rolling 5 year period. They are not allowed to go back in time and dig out your old sins. If you are a PR for more than 5 years, they can only look at the past 5 years. If you are confused about this, have a look at the PR renewal forms or the application forms for a travel document. They only ask for the last 5 years. You do not keep your PR status for life if you leave Canada and they find out. A person who is a PR for 40 years and commits a crime can be deported. A person who leaves for more than 3 years and then tries to apply for a travel document to get back or comes back without one and gets reported can also lose their PR status.

The PR card is mostly thought for travel but sometimes you are asked for it inside Canada as well. However, usually you would get away with showing your landing papers. There is no law that says you must have a PR card when staying in Canada. As for getting back to Canada after having been outside, if you are not visa exempt and want to fly or take a bus to Canada, the airline/bus company will want to know that you will be allowed to enter so therefore they will ask for a valid PR card, a travel document or a visa. If you enter without using a commercial carrier, you can take yourself up to the door of immigration and deal with them directly and they will most likely let you in if you have an expired PR card, landing papers or something else that indicates that you are a PR although they can report you if they think you do not meet the residency requirements.

 

[CanFamily]

If I'm outside of Canada with an expired PR card for around 4 years, can I still apply and get PR Travel document to travel back to Canada?

 

[scylla]

If I'm outside of Canada with an expired PR card for around 4 years, can I still apply and get PR Travel document to travel back to Canada?

You would have to provide extremely strong H&C evdience in order to have any chance of being approved. With a PR card that has already been expired for 4 years, I think you would pretty much have to demonstrate that you have been consistently in the hospital over the last 4 years and this has made it impossible for you to return. If all you have are economic and family considerations, I think your chance of approval are zero.