Applying In-land while out of status - possible???

[mysteriousk]

Thanks for all of your responses, Ponga. I was also comparing that excerpt to the Outland information and I couldn't find anything similar. Your two cents seems pretty sound to me, I'm going to continue getting everything I need together (for either application - proof of relationship, still waiting on FBI clearance, etc) and play it by ear in the meantime. Hopefully I make the right decision in the end. Thanks again, you have been a huge help!

Please let us know what route you end up taking. We are in the same boat and just very recently applied for an inland application but the more I read on here makes me wonder if we should have gone the outland route. It's a complicated decision!

 

[longobongo]

Hello again, mysteriousk! It is definitely a very confusing thing and complicated thing. The way I see it (assuming the principal applicant in your situation is from the United States), each decision comes with its own set of risks. In-land, if you are removed then your application is forfeit. You have no right to appeal. If your situation is complicated, you might be subject to even longer waiting times while you wait for an interview. Outland, there haven't been any confirmed cases where someone without status applied outland and received PR successfully. Your application could be sent to LA for further processing, where the processing times are as long if not longer than that of an In-land application. If you apply outland, and you require an interview, you may have a difficult time returning to Canada after your interview. I know it's a difficult decision, neither one is necessarily "more right" for our situation, in my opinion. (Except maybe leaving Canada and applying Outland then, but there are maybe personal circumstances preventing this from being an ideal option for people in our situation). If you don't mind me asking, how did you submit proof of when you (or your spouse - whoever the principal applicant is) entered Canada? Was your passport stamped? My passport was not stamped.. I know I can request my travel history from CBSA, but as someone without status in Canada, preparing my application.. I have to admit, I am nervous to contact CBSA about this. Good luck to you friend!

 

[joeschmo]

My comment had nothing to do with whether someone is going to be removed or not.

With US outland applications being processed in as little as 5-6 months, I don't understand why any American would apply inland - regardless of their status in Canada. Inland seems completely illogical to me.

It probably has to do with the benefits of outland application being completely counterintuitive. I'm an American and when looking at the options it is only logical to believe that "inland" application means if you live in country whereas "outland" means of course that one is NOT in Canada so doing what I thought was the right thing, I applied inland. I figured if I applied Outland with an inland address I'd be rejected. Now I'm sitting here watching the timeline grow. When I submitted for spousal sponsorship in April, 2014 the wait time was a manageable 13 months. Then recently it was 15 months and now it is 17 months. I'm growing more and more frustrated especially considering my existing work permit expires in approximately 3.5 weeks.

At this point, do I cancel my inland application and start over with an outland application? With the amount of time estimate to be left for my inland application, both processing times will equal out to being about the same but of course the odds are showing me that inland processing times will continue to grow

Now I'm trying to figure out this form IMM5710 to make sure I can get an OWP in this pilot program.

Question #3 asks:
1) A work permit with the same employer?
2) An initial work permit or a work permit with a new employer?
3) Restoration of your status as a worker?
4) Temporary Resident Permit?

My most recent work permit is the management consultant permit that allowed me to bypass the LMIA (formerly known as LMO). It expires Feb. 28th this year so instead of making assumptions I'll ask here which one I'm supposed to check. I assume #2 but what say you all?

 

[Ponga]

It probably has to do with the benefits of outland application being completely counterintuitive. I'm an American and when looking at the options it is only logical to believe that "inland" application means if you live in country whereas "outland" means of course that one is NOT in Canada so doing what I thought was the right thing, I applied inland. I figured if I applied Outland with an inland address I'd be rejected. Now I'm sitting here watching the timeline grow. When I submitted for spousal sponsorship in April, 2014 the wait time was a manageable 13 months. Then recently it was 15 months and now it is 17 months. I'm growing more and more frustrated especially considering my existing work permit expires in approximately 3.5 weeks.

At this point, do I cancel my inland application and start over with an outland application? With the amount of time estimate to be left for my inland application, both processing times will equal out to being about the same but of course the odds are showing me that inland processing times will continue to grow

Now I'm trying to figure out this form IMM5710 to make sure I can get an OWP in this pilot program.

Question #3 asks:
1) A work permit with the same employer?
2) An initial work permit or a work permit with a new employer?
3) Restoration of your status as a worker?
4) Temporary Resident Permit?

My most recent work permit is the management consultant permit that allowed me to bypass the LMIA (formerly known as LMO). It expires Feb. 28th this year so instead of making assumptions I'll ask here which one I'm supposed to check. I assume #2 but what say you all?

I completely agree with you, in that the CIC website and/or instructions for applying for spousal sponsorship are cryptic at best. If only I had kept that `secret decoder ring' I had as a kid...I could have figured out this ridiculous process.

When the instructions clearly tell you to use the In-Canada application if you are living in Canada...how on earth is a person supposed to know that an Outland application is even possible. Would it kill CIC to clarify this so that more people in Canada would know to use the Outland stream, which can only help reduce the virtual tourniquet that's crippling Inlanders.

Semantics aside...Most Inlanders, with or without status, are in fact living in Canada.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

My theory is that an American that is out of status applying Outland likely does NOT benefit from the faster processing times. Their application may be processed in LA, perhaps making it longer than an Inland applicant that IS (normally) allowed to remain in Canada, if they were not already `Removal ready' by CBSA when CIC received their Inland application.

And my theory is that an overstay will have no effect on the processing, nor will it cause an app to be sent to LA. A PR applicant's overstay is not a big deal to CIC and those who've had overstays in the past have had no issues with their PR apps.

Since there is nothing like this in any of the Outland processing manuals, because CIC assumes that EVERYONE that chooses to apply Outland while being physically present IN Canada has legal status...I'd be reluctant to apply Outland without status, but...that's just my $0.02

It doesn't mean that CIC assumes that everyone who chooses to apply outland while in Canada has legal status. That is your assumption.

It could just as easily be that CIC doesn't specify that for outland because it doesn't matter what a person's status is.

 

[Ponga]

And my theory is that an overstay will have no effect on the processing, nor will it cause an app to be sent to LA. A PR applicant's overstay is not a big deal to CIC and those who've had overstays in the past have had no issues with their PR apps.


It doesn't mean that CIC assumes that everyone who chooses to apply outland while in Canada has legal status. That is your assumption.

It could just as easily be that CIC doesn't specify that for outland because it doesn't matter what a person's status is.

Ok...would you at least agree that it is not crystal clear?


I never said that it will cause the app to be processed in LA, did I?!

Do you know what triggers an app to be processed in LA, besides a suspected marriage or relationship issue?
Is it not possible that there could be other reasons as well?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Ok...would you at least agree that it is not crystal clear?

I never said that it will cause the app to be processed in LA, did I?!

Do you know what triggers an app to be processed in LA, besides a suspected marriage or relationship issue?
Is it not possible that there could be other reasons as well?

I have always agreed that the wording CIC uses is not the clearest and can be very confusing.

Lol, I never said that you said that.....I'll stop it there.

Besides the basic MOC red flags (crazy age difference, huge educational/religious/social background differences etc.), a few other reasons an app may be sent to LA are criminal record/rehab issues, unexamined dependents or possible misrepresentation.

 

[bk2001050]

Guys, First off its extremely important to remember that CIC or now IRCC does not make the laws in this country, but are rather bound by them. What this means is that only a federal governing body like the current Trudeau's government can pass new laws and make amendments after lengthy and prolonged hearings in the the Parliament. CIC has nothing to do with the making of laws, but they are required to abide by them.

Hence, since 2005 there have not been any major amendments to the IRPA or Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that CIC has to abide by atleast not in the spousal category, except for the conditional permanent residence clause in October 2012 and the open work permit to spouses pilot program in 2014.

All out of status applicants can and are eligible to apply under spousal/common law category as of today. DO NOT follow CIC website as a guidebook as they are extremely cryptic especially in this category, because under the spousal public policy, most requirements like medical and income are waived. They do not want people getting a free ride so they make it especially difficult, like long waiting times, cryptic information etc.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Guys, First off its extremely important to remember that CIC or now IRCC does not make the laws in this country, but are rather bound by them. What this means is that only a federal governing body like the current Trudeau's government can pass new laws and make amendments after lengthy and prolonged hearings in the the Parliament. CIC has nothing to do with the making of laws, but they are required to abide by them.

Hence, since 2005 there have not been any major amendments to the IRPA or Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that CIC has to abide by atleast not in the spousal category, except for the conditional permanent residence clause in October 2012 and the open work permit to spouses pilot program in 2014.

All out of status applicants can and are eligible to apply under spousal/common law category as of today. DO NOT follow CIC website as a guidebook as they are extremely cryptic especially in this category, because under the spousal public policy, most requirements like medical and income are waived. They do not want people getting a free ride so they make it especially difficult, like long waiting times, cryptic information etc.

Stop resurrecting old threads to post pointless information.