Applying for PRTD during PR Renewal

[abff08f4813c]

I didn’t apply through H& C , I was in Canada for 30 months, I had to travel but my renewed PR card wasn’t ready after 4 months. So I travelled hoping to get PRTD , but if has been stuck in Ankara offices for 14 months. In additional documents they requested travel history from Canada border services which I sent them

Wow! That's so long .. what happens if it takes so long that you fall out of RO while waiting for the PRTD so you can come back and maintain your RO? That seems pretty serious for it to take so long.

Normally the card is expected after 6 months or so, and certainly within a year. Is there any chance that you got the PR card mailed to you - anyone who can check? Because if the PR card can be retrieved then your best chance might be to have it sent to you and then fly back on that.

Plan B - any chance of applying for a US tourist visa where you are at? If you can fly into the US then you'd probably be able to make it back home via the land border into Canada.

 

[Dizzy-Assistant5614]

Wow! That's so long .. what happens if it takes so long that you fall out of RO while waiting for the PRTD so you can come back and maintain your RO? That seems pretty serious for it to take so long.

Normally the card is expected after 6 months or so, and certainly within a year. Is there any chance that you got the PR card mailed to you - anyone who can check? Because if the PR card can be retrieved then your best chance might be to have it sent to you and then fly back on that.

Plan B - any chance of applying for a US tourist visa where you are at? If you can fly into the US then you'd probably be able to make it back home via the land border into Canada.

My pr card was issued, and not sent to my address. I received a letter in September 2024 asking me to pick it up at an IRCC office in Vancouver in person. I sent that letter to the visa office too, but no luck
US visa is not easy to apply from Iran, it’s out of question right now.
I have seen two other people from Iran waiting for almost a year for their prtd, both Residency obligations met.

 

[abff08f4813c]

My pr card was issued, and not sent to my address. I received a letter in September 2024 asking me to pick it up at an IRCC office in Vancouver in person. I sent that letter to the visa office too, but no luck
US visa is not easy to apply from Iran, it’s out of question right now.
I have seen two other people from Iran waiting for almost a year for their prtd, both Residency obligations met.

Well, you haven't seen anyone waiting longer than you. So hopefully you are the outlier and it won't take too much longer...

Don't suppose you have a visa to France or another Schengen country? The only other option I can think of is to get to France, fly from there to Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and then try your luck in getting back into Canada with the ferries and your Canadian DL. (Note the hard part here is getting onto the ferry (+ France and Schengen as the case may be), as once you're on it you'll make it to the port of entry, where CBSA can verify you are in fact a PR, and will let you in.)

 

[Dizzy-Assistant5614]

Well, you haven't seen anyone waiting longer than you. So hopefully you are the outlier and it won't take too much longer...

Don't suppose you have a visa to France or another Schengen country? The only other option I can think of is to get to France, fly from there to Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and then try your luck in getting back into Canada with the ferries and your Canadian DL. (Note the hard part here is getting onto the ferry (+ France and Schengen as the case may be), as once you're on it you'll make it to the port of entry, where CBSA can verify you are in fact a PR, and will let you in.)

Thank you very much for the answer
I didn’t know about the France option. I may consider it if it takes much longer ,

 

[scylla]

Well, you haven't seen anyone waiting longer than you. So hopefully you are the outlier and it won't take too much longer...

Don't suppose you have a visa to France or another Schengen country? The only other option I can think of is to get to France, fly from there to Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and then try your luck in getting back into Canada with the ferries and your Canadian DL. (Note the hard part here is getting onto the ferry (+ France and Schengen as the case may be), as once you're on it you'll make it to the port of entry, where CBSA can verify you are in fact a PR, and will let you in.)

I don't believe there are any direct flights from France to Saint Pierre and Miquelon. To the best of my knowledge they all have a transit through a Canada airport. Don't think the above is viable for that reason.

 

[abff08f4813c]

I don't believe there are any direct flights from France to Saint Pierre and Miquelon. To the best of my knowledge they all have a transit through a Canada airport. Don't think the above is viable for that reason.

OP would need to wait a few months but as per http://airsaintpierre.com/en/paris/ flights are available and it's mentioned on http://airsaintpierre.com/en/ that the one to Paris is direct.

Furthermore we can check on flight tracking websites that the corresponding flight (the one from Paris) is direct - e.g. at https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SPM637

 

[scylla]

OP would need to wait a few months but as per http://airsaintpierre.com/en/paris/ flights are available and it's mentioned on http://airsaintpierre.com/en/ that the one to Paris is direct.

Furthermore we can check on flight tracking websites that the corresponding flight (the one from Paris) is direct - e.g. at https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SPM637

Ah - interesting. I wasn't aware.

 

[scylla]

OP would need to wait a few months but as per http://airsaintpierre.com/en/paris/ flights are available and it's mentioned on http://airsaintpierre.com/en/ that the one to Paris is direct.

Furthermore we can check on flight tracking websites that the corresponding flight (the one from Paris) is direct - e.g. at https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SPM637

Looks like it's only a summer route with limited availability (12 flights last year). Having said that, something for the OP to look into if all else fails.

 

[armoured]

Don't suppose you have a visa to France or another Schengen country? The only other option I can think of is to get to France, fly from there to Saint Pierre and Miquelon,

St Pierre et Miquelon is NOT a part of the Schengen zone, and has its own entry requirements. I absolutely would NOT rely upon transiting via France unless you had confirmed in advance it would be accepted.

Of course a Canadian passport would be enough, but I seriously doubt that this is an efficient route with expired Canadian PR docs etc - especially with a one-way ticket.

This is not really a viable route in my opinion. My impression is that the (French) authorities of St-P-et-M will look very hard at anyone trying to use that département to transit elsewhere. (And if any doubt of someone's ability to transit on to Canada, they'll probably check with CBSA or other Canadian authorities).

Sorry I don't have other suggestions. This seems to be an ongoing issue for Iranian passport holders, and frankly I think there should be a warning that PRs on Iranian passports should NOT rely upon getting a PRTD in timely fashion in order to be able to return.

 

[abff08f4813c]

St Pierre et Miquelon is NOT a part of the Schengen zone, and has its own entry requirements.

Agreed - for an Iran passport holder, one needs the appropriate visa to get into St Pierre et Miquelon as per https://www.doyouneedvisa.com/visa-requirement/iraq/to/saint-pierre-and-miquelon

The question about a visa for Schengen was more about making it easier to get to France in the first place, as that's a prerequisite to fly out from Paris to St Pierre et Miquelon.

I absolutely would NOT rely upon transiting via France unless you had confirmed in advance it would be accepted.

Also agreed. From the ferries website, https://www.spm-ferries.fr/en/get-ready-for-your-trip/travel-documents/ they point to https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en/web/france-visas/visa-wizard#/ to see if you need a visa and I believe it's the same website to make the actual visa application.

Of course a Canadian passport would be enough, but I seriously doubt that this is an efficient route with expired Canadian PR docs etc - especially with a one-way ticket.

It's definitely not efficient. Of course, flying into the US and trying for the land border isn't either, but lots of folks do that successfully because they feel that they have no other choice.

The question is if it's viable.

My impression is that the (French) authorities of St-P-et-M will look very hard at anyone trying to use that département to transit elsewhere.

I think OP could handle this by applying for, and actually being a tourist of St Pierre et Miquelon for a bit, and then at the end of the trip eat the cost of the return ticket and try their luck at the ferries. (Again, not the most efficient way, but if it's the only way..)

(And if any doubt of someone's ability to transit on to Canada, they'll probably check with CBSA or other Canadian authorities).

So then if it's a question of the ferries and how strict they are in checking before allowing you to leave. Now, if they actually call CBSA then I suspect it'd be fine, as this is a PR who has enough docs to prove identity as a PR and who has met the RO (and would still be meeting RO later this summer if i'm understanding correctly). So if given all this information, then CBSA would probably say they'd accept this PR.

So the answer to the question on whether or not this plan is viable seems to depend on if the ferry will act like many airlines and just refuse boarding outright because our PR is missing the right doc or whatnot.

This is not really a viable route in my opinion.

It seems the most we know about this is https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/flagpolling-at-st-pierre-and-miquelon.819735/post-10580043 which states that border control seems to be when one exits the ferry, but doesn't say much about what checks the ferry folks themselves do when boarding a ship to leave Canada.

From https://ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1231&top=16 it seems that you can use the same documents to re-enter Canada that you used to leave Canada and enter St Pierre et Miquelon.

And from https://www.spm-ferries.fr/en/get-ready-for-your-trip/travel-documents/ all that's needed to enter St Pierre et Miquelon from the Canadian side is the Canadian DL or Canadian Photo ID.

Now, a literal and strict reading of both implies that using a Canadian DL/Photo ID to get into Canada shouldn't work if the one entered St Pierre et Miquelon from France originally.

But it's possible that OP might slide through the ferry checks ("Has a valid, unexpired Ontario DL? Okay this person is good to go") and not present an issue until OP is in front of CBSA (at which point OP should be let in).

Sorry I don't have other suggestions. This seems to be an ongoing issue for Iranian passport holders, and frankly I think there should be a warning that PRs on Iranian passports should NOT rely upon getting a PRTD in timely fashion in order to be able to return.

Agreed. Especially so considering this: I tried to reconstruct the timeline from the OP's post in this thread - it seems like OP left around August 2024 and a month or so later got the appointment on Sept 2024 to pick the PR card up in person, so if OP had been able to delay the trip by a couple of months, then OP would have had the PR card in hand before flying out of Canada and would have been able to fly back already long ago.

 

[armoured]

It's definitely not efficient. Of course, flying into the US and trying for the land border isn't either, but lots of folks do that successfully because they feel that they have no other choice.

The question is if it's viable.

I misspoke - I said efficient when I meant effective, in the sense of viable.

I seriously doubt that this has any chance of working (except mainly in cases where the individual could already fly direct to Canada or via USA anyway). It's a fanciful suggestion with no evidence it can or indeed has ever worked (at least in recent history - rum smugglers or something has probably been a route in distant past).

There are likely means and methods available that are either distinctly illegal/criminal or feasible for those with unlimited amounts of cash - but I don't think worth exploring in this context either.

 

[abff08f4813c]

There are likely means and methods available that are either distinctly illegal/criminal ... but I don't think worth exploring in this context either.

Agreed - this would almost certainly cause more problems than it would solve.

feasible for those with unlimited amounts of cash - but I don't think worth exploring in this context either.

Not saying that OP has an unlimited amount or cash, or should consider spending such even if OP had it. But my curiosity is piqued.

I misspoke - I said efficient when I meant effective, in the sense of viable.

I seriously doubt that this has any chance of working

It's a fair opinion, to be sure. To quote another VIP member of this forum, "something for the OP to look into if all else fails." https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/applying-for-prtd-during-pr-renewal.853599/post-11026373

It's a fanciful suggestion

I would ask, what's so fanciful about it? It's a water border that has to be travelled commercially rather than a land border that one can walk across, but aside from that it's not too different from the "fly to US and cross" case - with the hope that it's easier for the OP to get the French and St-P-n-M visas than it is to get a US visa.

with no evidence it can or indeed has ever worked

at least in recent history

Which is what we care about. A fair point. Of course I'd counter by saying that this isn't a particularly busy border crossing to begin with, and because of what you say below, there have been few to no attempts, or at least no attempts that made it to the attention of this forum.

(except mainly in cases where the individual could already fly direct to Canada or via USA anyway).

Right. So that just means we don't have the data. Like (before the gov't stopped allowing it) we suspected that flagpoling here was possible, but there wasn't much in the way of reports from folks who actually tried it. (Actually it seems like flagpoling should have been straightforwardly possible just by reading all the rules, but not too many reports.)

rum smugglers or something has probably been a route in distant past

Which is not relevant as that predates both modern immigration and border control, and airplanes.

Of course, your caution here is definitely warranted. With no real data to go by and the level of uncertainty with some of the rules, OP is clearly better off if the PRTD ends up getting approved before summer or if OP figures out another solution before then. This is definitely more of a Hail Mary pass.

(That said I think I might be overstating the uncertainty bit. OP could just call the ferry company and ask, if he successfully flies in from France on a valid visa, if they'll let him board and return to Canada just on his Canadian DL or similar. If they say no then we know for sure that it's not viable, and if they say yes then it's the opposite situation.)