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Apply for Citizenship with expired passport

Dhudson

Star Member
May 20, 2015
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Hello everyone,

We would like to apply for Canadian Citizenship but we hold the expired passports.
Short timeline: came to Canada in start of 2011 and became PR at middle of 2015. Our passports has been expired since end of 2015.
We never leave Canada since we came-in in 2011.
We don't want to renew our passports for several thing, we run away from our home Country.

Can we apply for Citizenship , and if yes is not going to hit officer's trigger and delay application?

Thanks in advice.
Regard DHudson
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Hello everyone,

We would like to apply for Canadian Citizenship but we hold the expired passports.
Short timeline: came to Canada in start of 2011 and became PR at middle of 2015. Our passports has been expired since end of 2015.
We never leave Canada since we came-in in 2011.
We don't want to renew our passports for several thing, we run away from our home Country.

Can we apply for Citizenship , and if yes is not going to hit officer's trigger and delay application?
Yes, you can apply without a currently valid passport. You will need to explain why you are not submitting a copy of a passport valid from the date of your expired passport until the date of the application. In the current application form this is item 6.E. This may change (but probably not) when the new 3/5 rule takes effect and a new form is available.

Be sure, of course, to keep and submit your expired passport.

You will not be eligible, of course, until the 3/5 rule takes effect, which should be sometime this fall (under current rules you will not be eligible until mid-2019).

What influence this passport situation might have in processing your application depends on many, many individual factors. That is, how it is likely to go depends on your history and circumstances, including your explanation for why you have not renewed or obtained your home country passport. An important aspect of this is just how apparent it is to IRCC that you have in fact remained in Canada without once going abroad.

Which is to say, depending on the details and overall situation in the particular case, not having a current passport may have no negative influence at all, or it could be part of broader concerns or even suspicions which trigger elevated scrutiny or even a full blown RQ.

If in your particular case, not renewing your home country passport makes sense (as you explain in the application), and all the other details fit into a cohesive picture of a qualified applicant, there should be little or nothing to worry about.

Note: obtaining a renewed passport now will still leave a gap. If, for example, you obtained a new passport issued August 15, 2017, that will still leave a gap between the end of 2015 and August 14, 2017, for which you will not, because you cannot, submit a passport covering that period of time.

So whatever your circumstances, you will still need to provide an explanation in item 6.E. (or however it is numbered in the new form). So, what is more important for you, probably, is what your explanation is, and how solidly your application is otherwise (if you have been full-time employed, for example, that really helps to make a more solid application, since that tends to solidly show actual presence in Canada . . . this is not a bias in favour of workers, but a matter of what shows presence . . . indeed, if it is a family application, and the spouse is a stay-at-home parent, the full time employment of one spouse will help make a solid application for both).




Refugees or protected persons: Reminder, refugees and protected persons should NOT apply for or otherwise obtain a home country passport.

Reminder: if a refugee obtains a home country passport the refugee is presumed to have reavailed himself or herself of home country protection, which is grounds for cessation of protected person status, and cessation of status in turn automatically terminates PR status, automatically terminating any eligibility for citizenship.

Unfortunately, more than a few refugees and protected persons have been erroneously ill-advised to obtain their home country passports. (Note, this includes, per a number of reports, such wrong advice obtained from CIC/IRCC help line representatives.)


Some further observations about disconnecting from the home country:

You state "We don't want to renew our passports for several thing, we run away from our home Country."

In some respects there are more than a few Americans in Canada who may be wont to say the same thing (obviously for good cause). In contrast, at the other end of the spectrum, a refugee or other person who has sought protected person status in Canada, could also say this. The difference in their situations is, however, huge. And likewise the impact.

As noted above, refugees or such should not obtain or renew a home country passport.

An American citizen, whose political and/or social discontent with the U.S. (which would be well-founded, to say the least) underlies this attitude, would more than likely be subject to elevated scrutiny if he applied without renewing his U.S. passport. Just the claim of never having traveled outside Canada for five years would suggest the need for further verification of the facts. It may not lack credibility on its face, but it is enough of an anomaly or otherwise unusual, that IRCC would be, in effect, compelled to probe the applicant more thoroughly.

In contrast, it makes total sense that a refugee, protected person, or even a person who has otherwise escaped a country for more or less apparent reasons but not formally a refugee, has not renewed that country's passport, has not traveled home even once.

Obviously there is a wide range in-between those scenarios. Within this range, the reason for not renewing the home country passport, and the other circumstances attendant the applicant's life in Canada, will influence whether IRCC has some questions or concerns. A reasonable explanation for an applicant in a situation for which not renewing the passport makes sense, should not raise much if any concern.
 

Ghost13

Hero Member
Apr 30, 2017
214
79
Toronto
Yes, you can apply without a currently valid passport. You will need to explain why you are not submitting a copy of a passport valid from the date of your expired passport until the date of the application. In the current application form this is item 6.E. This may change (but probably not) when the new 3/5 rule takes effect and a new form is available.

Be sure, of course, to keep and submit your expired passport.

You will not be eligible, of course, until the 3/5 rule takes effect, which should be sometime this fall (under current rules you will not be eligible until mid-2019).

What influence this passport situation might have in processing your application depends on many, many individual factors. That is, how it is likely to go depends on your history and circumstances, including your explanation for why you have not renewed or obtained your home country passport. An important aspect of this is just how apparent it is to IRCC that you have in fact remained in Canada without once going abroad.

Which is to say, depending on the details and overall situation in the particular case, not having a current passport may have no negative influence at all, or it could be part of broader concerns or even suspicions which trigger elevated scrutiny or even a full blown RQ.

If in your particular case, not renewing your home country passport makes sense (as you explain in the application), and all the other details fit into a cohesive picture of a qualified applicant, there should be little or nothing to worry about.

Note: obtaining a renewed passport now will still leave a gap. If, for example, you obtained a new passport issued August 15, 2017, that will still leave a gap between the end of 2015 and August 14, 2017, for which you will not, because you cannot, submit a passport covering that period of time.

So whatever your circumstances, you will still need to provide an explanation in item 6.E. (or however it is numbered in the new form). So, what is more important for you, probably, is what your explanation is, and how solidly your application is otherwise (if you have been full-time employed, for example, that really helps to make a more solid application, since that tends to solidly show actual presence in Canada . . . this is not a bias in favour of workers, but a matter of what shows presence . . . indeed, if it is a family application, and the spouse is a stay-at-home parent, the full time employment of one spouse will help make a solid application for both).




Refugees or protected persons: Reminder, refugees and protected persons should NOT apply for or otherwise obtain a home country passport.

Reminder: if a refugee obtains a home country passport the refugee is presumed to have reavailed himself or herself of home country protection, which is grounds for cessation of protected person status, and cessation of status in turn automatically terminates PR status, automatically terminating any eligibility for citizenship.

Unfortunately, more than a few refugees and protected persons have been erroneously ill-advised to obtain their home country passports. (Note, this includes, per a number of reports, such wrong advice obtained from CIC/IRCC help line representatives.)


Some further observations about disconnecting from the home country:

You state "We don't want to renew our passports for several thing, we run away from our home Country."

In some respects there are more than a few Americans in Canada who may be wont to say the same thing (obviously for good cause). In contrast, at the other end of the spectrum, a refugee or other person who has sought protected person status in Canada, could also say this. The difference in their situations is, however, huge. And likewise the impact.

As noted above, refugees or such should not obtain or renew a home country passport.

An American citizen, whose political and/or social discontent with the U.S. (which would be well-founded, to say the least) underlies this attitude, would more than likely be subject to elevated scrutiny if he applied without renewing his U.S. passport. Just the claim of never having traveled outside Canada for five years would suggest the need for further verification of the facts. It may not lack credibility on its face, but it is enough of an anomaly or otherwise unusual, that IRCC would be, in effect, compelled to probe the applicant more thoroughly.

In contrast, it makes total sense that a refugee, protected person, or even a person who has otherwise escaped a country for more or less apparent reasons but not formally a refugee, has not renewed that country's passport, has not traveled home even once.

Obviously there is a wide range in-between those scenarios. Within this range, the reason for not renewing the home country passport, and the other circumstances attendant the applicant's life in Canada, will influence whether IRCC has some questions or concerns. A reasonable explanation for an applicant in a situation for which not renewing the passport makes sense, should not raise much if any concern.
Hello dpenabill,

I have a question about the expired passport issue, as I've already applied with a valid passport, my application is currently in process, but my passport will expire in September and I have no means to renew it as my country is at war now, and the Canadian government has expelled all Syrian diplomatic missions and closed down the only consulate in Montreal. Even if diplomatic relations were normal with Canada and the consulate is still functioning normally, I'm still unable to renew my passport as I've already extended it twice and the only way to renew it is to do it from my home country.

My question is: Assuming that my case will continue processing until September, do I need to renew my passport? Does Canada know that I have no means to issue a new passport in here and I cannot go back to my home country (as it's implicated with a grinding war) and issue a new passport?

Should I write them a letter and explain? What can be done in this case? Please advise.

Thank you.
 

sogood

Star Member
Jan 27, 2010
162
36
Category........
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Hello dpenabill,

I have a question about the expired passport issue, as I've already applied with a valid passport, my application is currently in process, but my passport will expire in September and I have no means to renew it as my country is at war now, and the Canadian government has expelled all Syrian diplomatic missions and closed down the only consulate in Montreal. Even if diplomatic relations were normal with Canada and the consulate is still functioning normally, I'm still unable to renew my passport as I've already extended it twice and the only way to renew it is to do it from my home country.

My question is: Assuming that my case will continue processing until September, do I need to renew my passport? Does Canada know that I have no means to issue a new passport in here and I cannot go back to my home country (as it's implicated with a grinding war) and issue a new passport?

Should I write them a letter and explain? What can be done in this case? Please advise.

Thank you.
Since you submitted a valid passport, you have no cause to worry no matter hold long the application takes.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
I have a question about the expired passport issue, as I've already applied with a valid passport, my application is currently in process, but my passport will expire in September and I have no means to renew it as my country is at war now, and the Canadian government has expelled all Syrian diplomatic missions and closed down the only consulate in Montreal. Even if diplomatic relations were normal with Canada and the consulate is still functioning normally, I'm still unable to renew my passport as I've already extended it twice and the only way to renew it is to do it from my home country.

My question is: Assuming that my case will continue processing until September, do I need to renew my passport? Does Canada know that I have no means to issue a new passport in here and I cannot go back to my home country (as it's implicated with a grinding war) and issue a new passport?

Should I write them a letter and explain? What can be done in this case? Please advise.
I concur in the observation by sogood . . . assuming certain things, such as you will not have any travel abroad during the time period after your passport expires unless you have some other Travel Document, noting that if do have any other Travel Document, I assume an appropriate copy of the biographical pages of it were submitted to IRCC with the application.

You may be asked about this at the interview, but your simple explanation should readily suffice. Nothing to worry about.

I have not seen any specific report that IRCC readily recognizes and acknowledges that some PRs cannot renew their passport without returning to the home country, and for whatever reasons elect not to make such a trip. That would be consistent with how CIC and IRCC have generally approached similar situations. That is what would make sense based on how CIC and IRCC has handled other passport and Travel Document issues.

Moreover, while obviously it depends on the particular processing agent (an interviewer for example), or responsible Citizenship Officer, it appears many are more familiar with such things than we give them credit. The circumstances affecting PRs whose home country is Syria, for example, should be relatively known to processing agents and Citizenship Officers generally.
 

Dhudson

Star Member
May 20, 2015
164
10
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
00-00-2011
Med's Request
00-00-2015
Passport Req..
00-00-2015
LANDED..........
25-08-2015
Dear dpenabill , Thank You for detail answer.
Couple question to you please:

Our PR background:
2011 - applied for refuge status
2012 - rejected refugee application
2013 - applied H&C
2014 - rejected H&C
2014 - applied second H&C
2015 - became PR based on H&C application.

In my explanation about expired passport can I say that : 1. We did apply for refuge before (even we lost our case) 2. Was not necessary for us to travel out of Canada.

In my understand - the worse case and the bad scenario for us which could happened is RQ - and for me and my family shouldn't be problem to prove that we have lived in Canada and leave country. Please correct me if I am wrong?

In Citizenship application form in question 8E: "Have ever been under removal order"? do I have to say "YES" because in 2012 after lost refugee case we have to leave country but we didn't and after lots of fight we finally got PR in 2015 on H&C.


Thanks.
Regards, DHudson.
 
Last edited:

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
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In my explanation about expired passport can I say that : 1. We did apply for refuge before (even we lost our case) 2. Was not necessary for us to travel out of Canada.

In my understand - the worse case and the bad scenario for us which could happened is RQ - and for me and my family shouldn't be problem to prove that we have lived in Canada and leave country. Please correct me if I am wrong?

In Citizenship application form in question 8E: "Have ever been under removal order"? do I have to say "YES" because in 2012 after lost refugee case we have to leave country but we didn't and after lots of fight we finally got PR in 2015 on H&C.
My sense or guess, which I offer emphasizing I do not have much if any confidence I am right about this, is that such a simple answer should suffice. Your situation is obvious. The absence of travel abroad makes sense. No need for a passport makes sense. Maybe add, to be more specific, "and we had no need for passport."

Something like "We came to Canada seeking refugee status and then made H&C applications for PR. So it was not necessary for us to travel out of Canada, and we had no need to renew home country passport."

That is my NON-expert sense.

Similarly I can offer only my NON-expert sense about the prohibitions item; my sense is that you should indeed respond affirmatively (yes) to the question about ever being under a removal order, because you were in fact under a removal order. Here too, give a simple explanation. This will be something IRCC already knows and which a processing agent will be aware of when reviewing your application, as it is a part of your immigration history. It should NOT cause any problems, not even any delays. Even if there is some non-routine processing (a Finger Print request would not be a surprise for example), it should not be problematic or cause much of a delay.

Note: you will most likely be presented a similar prohibitions query/form again during processing, such as attendant the interview. Again, just answer the questions truthfully. Your old Removal Order should not be a problem. If it would be a problem, not truthfully acknowledging it would just make that problem much worse. Thus, as to ever being under a Removal Order, "yes," and explain, and the explanation should readily suffice.


If you still have access to any of the resources you had help from in pursuing your refugee and then H&C case, I suggest consulting with them further. I believe some community centre assistance might be available for persons in your situation.

Individuals with your background tend to have different issues than the vast majority of persons participating in the citizenship part of this forum. How your background could affect your application, differently than the experience of most others posting here, is something I do not know and something I doubt most posting here pay attention to let alone know.



Thus, for emphasis, again: I am not an expert.

I closely follow a few particular aspects of the citizenship application process and some PR issues. In particular, I am not much familiar with the situations affecting PRs whose background in Canada derives from a refugee or H&C application.

The citizenship part of this forum has had rather little input from refugee or H&C PRs, and my impression is that the vast majority of posts here do not take into consideration the potential differences for those applicants who are a refugee or H&C PR . . . and indeed, some refugee PRs have been given very bad advice here in the past, when some were advised to obtain a passport before applying for citizenship.

What I know about refugees, protected persons, and H&C PR, is limited, mostly gleaned collaterally. In particular, while for years I have made a concerted effort to read all Federal Court decisions involving a citizenship issue (I probably miss some occasionally), I skip over the constant stream of FC decisions about refugee and H&C applications (well, I read an occasional one here and there, such as if a key issue in the case is misrepresentation).

Thus, for example, I only somewhat reluctantly began following and reporting about refugee-PRs facing cessation and loss of PR status because I was alarmed that so many were being caught unaware of the changes the Harper government implemented resulting in really draconian consequences for many refugee-PRs, including especially those who were being advised they should obtain a passport to have when applying for citizenship . . . which bad, bad advice was given by some in this forum, and by CIC/IRCC call centre agents, even by some consultants and lawyers who obviously were not keeping up with all the changes in law. So I started a topic here about this and have continued to follow this issue as well. I came across the issue because I saw in the Federal Court decisions cases where such PRs had applied for citizenship only to have the government then commence refugee-status-cessation proceedings, resulting in them losing PR status and thus no longer being eligible for citizenship . . . so they were individuals on track to be full citizens who, instead, not only did not become citizens but ended up deported from Canada. And virtually no one was saying anything about this. And, indeed, Jenny Kwan, a NDP MP from BC, is among the very few voices making an effort to get the Trudeau government to make changes in the law to fix this.
 

Dhudson

Star Member
May 20, 2015
164
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Thank you very much again! Me and my family just so scary if once we apply for Citizenship, the CIC or we must "touch" our old country again.

Is CIC may ask us for some more reports/certificates from our old country or CIC will process something by them self? or Citizenship process/application more about time spend in Canada and etc.?

Thanks,
Regards, DHudson.
 

Derut

Member
Aug 25, 2017
17
9
Thanks dpenabill for your explanation.
I got my PR in 2013 . I didnt travel anywhere since i came to canada.i renewed my home country passport but have never used it. My initial plan when i renewed the passport was to teavel to US which didnt happen due to work related issues. I am not sure what i am going to do now.
 
Last edited:

Danielari2016

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Jan 25, 2016
120
13
Toronto
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Yes
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03-06-2016
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09-06-2016
LANDED..........
14-06-2016
Hello everyone,

We would like to apply for Canadian Citizenship but we hold the expired passports.
Short timeline: came to Canada in start of 2011 and became PR at middle of 2015. Our passports has been expired since end of 2015.
We never leave Canada since we came-in in 2011.
We don't want to renew our passports for several thing, we run away from our home Country.

Can we apply for Citizenship , and if yes is not going to hit officer's trigger and delay application?

Thanks in advice.
Regard DHudson

Hi
Did you get your citizenship? did they ask any explanation letter or returned your application anything because i will be qualify on August 11 and my passport will expire on September 11 but i am not thinking about renew or extension until i get Canadian Passport.
 

ralphcorrales

Newbie
Jun 13, 2019
1
0
Hello everyone,

We would like to apply for Canadian Citizenship but we hold the expired passports.
Short timeline: came to Canada in start of 2011 and became PR at middle of 2015. Our passports has been expired since end of 2015.
We never leave Canada since we came-in in 2011.
We don't want to renew our passports for several thing, we run away from our home Country.

Can we apply for Citizenship , and if yes is not going to hit officer's trigger and delay application?

essay services
Regard DHudson
I'm no master … however companions of mine were RQ'd due to their terminated passports in spite of the fact that they have never left Canada since landing so if u can restore ur travel papers before applying I imagine that would be more secure… yet genuinely no one knows.
 

david1211

Member
Mar 24, 2020
15
4
Hi, @depenabill. I have just got my PR approved in April this year, my passport from my home country is about to expire. I have decided not to renew my passport just due to 2 reasons:

1. I hate the government of my home country because of their dictatorship and do not want to deal with the embassy at all. I just want to avoid dealing with that ruthless government at all.

2. I have no travel plans outside Canada for the remaining time (less than 2 years) while waiting to be eligible for the Canadian citizenship application.

Will it have any impact on my citizenship in the future without a valid passport from my home country? Please note that I got my PR through Express Entry CEC, and I am not a refugee.

Please give me some advice. Thank you.
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,787
Hi, @depenabill. I have just got my PR approved in April this year, my passport from my home country is about to expire. I have decided not to renew my passport just due to 2 reasons:

1. I hate the government of my home country because of their dictatorship and do not want to deal with the embassy at all. I just want to avoid dealing with that ruthless government at all.

2. I have no travel plans outside Canada for the remaining time (less than 2 years) while waiting to be eligible for the Canadian citizenship application.

Will it have any impact on my citizenship in the future without a valid passport from my home country? Please note that I got my PR through Express Entry CEC, and I am not a refugee.

Please give me some advice. Thank you.
You don't need a valid passport to apply for citizenship. However, you'll have to provide an explanation as to why you don't have a passport when you submit your citizenship application.