Application Rejected - How to ask for relook / reopen

[spookyb]

@ spookyB you are correct. Don't complicate it by sending another letter. I am sure this is a common scenario, especially with people who work in big companies where head office is located separately. (head office usually issues T4s). You will be fine

it's the same in my case, but the official letterhead for my company has all the branch addresses, including headoffice, listed in the footer of the letterhead paper). For me, it gets complicated because my company was bought out on the day my boss wrote the letter (he did include this information about the impending takeover in the letter and attached a press release confirming the same, and indicated that the transition from company A to B is still in process)

So I am just as anxious as you. I don't know how it will play out.

Lets just hope we prevail, keep me posted on your case!

Thanks random, I will definitely keep you posted. On the plus side, my original offer letter specifically mentions that I will be working on a specific government project at the site office on that issued my reference letter. Maybe that helps. But because I work on a government research project, we have a different logo, address and website from the actual government agency that pays me. What is your timeline?

 

[jsm0085]

@ spookyB you are correct. Don't complicate it by sending another letter. I am sure this is a common scenario, especially with people who work in big companies where head office is located separately. (head office usually issues T4s). You will be fine

it's the same in my case, but the official letterhead for my company has all the branch addresses, including headoffice, listed in the footer of the letterhead paper). For me, it gets complicated because my company was bought out on the day my boss wrote the letter (he did include this information about the impending takeover in the letter and attached a press release confirming the same, and indicated that the transition from company A to B is still in process)

So I am just as anxious as you. I don't know how it will play out.

Lets just hope we prevail, keep me posted on your case!

Are the addresses all within Canada or are some abroad? Did you do an intra-company transfer or do you have a work permit?

 

[spookyb]

Are the addresses all within Canada or are some abroad? Did you do an intra-company transfer or do you have a work permit?

@jsm0085

not sure if you're asking me or random. In my case, all the addresses are in Canada as it is a government agency. My offer letter is from provincial head office in Edmonton. My T4s are from regional head office in Calgary. My reference letter is from site office for my project.

 

[random123]

Same here...addresses all in canada...

@ jsm0085

not sure if you're asking me or random. In my case, all the addresses are in Canada as it is a government agency. My offer letter is from provincial head office in Edmonton. My T4s are from regional head office in Calgary. My reference letter is from site office for my project.

 

[blrk]

Hi ,

I applied in CEC under NOC code 2174.
Initially, I got an employment verification email from cic.
They asked me prove my physical employment in canada , contracts between me and the company .
and any contracts between company and its clients.

I sent them following documents
T4s , Notice of Assesment from last 4 years .
Bank statements and pay slip from my employer from last 2 years .

They replied within few days with the email That even after reviewing documents they are not satisfied that I have the employment stated on my application.
Further it says

Hence, It will be required for you to provide copies of all the contracts/employment agreements you entered into with <Company>.
as well as verifiable evidence from client sites where you have worked at during your qualifying period confirming
your contract work as an employee of the <Company>.

Failure to provide this may result in the refusal of your application.
You have 30 days to provide the requested documents.


The problem is that my company has does not have a direct contract with the client .
Due to the nature of the work some big banks , big companies work with third parties who work with smaller companies like ours to fill their requirement.
So the Contract looks like this <Our Company> -- <Third Party> -- <Actual Client>
And although most places I have worked for till now is 1 to 1.5 years contracts in some cases start with just 3 months with further extension.
I have worked with internal projects of the company as well.
Our company generally avoids mentioning details of client in any letter unless it is absolutely required.
So the reference letter they gave just has high level duties which I perform and also matches NOC code. Client etc. is not mentioned.
Does this kind of through contract create a problem ? Even if I submit these contracts I read in some places that they start asking for
client reference letter after that .

Another thing is that I have got my medical request for FSW2 application last month so it seems to be moving now. Keeping this in mind I am thinking one
option could be withdrawing my CEC appliation instead of refusal. Though I am not sure if I would not face same problem for my FSW application.
[ not sure medical request in FSW means employment verification is done or in process or not started ]

Through our company many people have received PR's till now [FSW and CEC] and they are surprised why there is so much scrutiny/questions now.

Anybody with similar experience or suggestions ?

 

[jsm0085]

Hi ,

I applied in CEC under NOC code 2174.
Initially, I got an employment verification email from cic.
They asked me prove my physical employment in canada , contracts between me and the company .
and any contracts between company and its clients.

I sent them following documents
T4s , Notice of Assesment from last 4 years .
Bank statements and pay slip from my employer from last 2 years .

They replied within few days with the email That even after reviewing documents they are not satisfied that I have the employment stated on my application.
Further it says

Hence, It will be required for you to provide copies of all the contracts/employment agreements you entered into with <Company>.
as well as verifiable evidence from client sites where you have worked at during your qualifying period confirming
your contract work as an employee of the <Company>.

Failure to provide this may result in the refusal of your application.
You have 30 days to provide the requested documents.


The problem is that my company has does not have a direct contract with the client .
Due to the nature of the work some big banks , big companies work with third parties who work with smaller companies like ours to fill their requirement.
So the Contract looks like this <Our Company> -- <Third Party> -- <Actual Client>
And although most places I have worked for till now is 1 to 1.5 years contracts in some cases start with just 3 months with further extension.
I have worked with internal projects of the company as well.
Our company generally avoids mentioning details of client in any letter unless it is absolutely required.
So the reference letter they gave just has high level duties which I perform and also matches NOC code. Client etc. is not mentioned.
Does this kind of through contract create a problem ? Even if I submit these contracts I read in some places that they start asking for
client reference letter after that .

Another thing is that I have got my medical request for FSW2 application last month so it seems to be moving now. Keeping this in mind I am thinking one
option could be withdrawing my CEC appliation instead of refusal. Though I am not sure if I would not face same problem for my FSW application.
[ not sure medical request in FSW means employment verification is done or in process or not started ]

Through our company many people have received PR's till now [FSW and CEC] and they are surprised why there is so much scrutiny/questions now.

Anybody with similar experience or suggestions ?

It's the result of fraud. Pure and simple. CEC is skilled on skilled employment.

You are employed by company A but you actually work on behalf of company B. While company A may pay you etc (and you have a contract with them) you don't actually do the work for them, therefor they cannot confirm the work you complete on a day-to-day basis for company B. If you look through the threats their was a very similar situation 1-2 months ago with someone who was employed through an agency but actually worked for a big bank - what you call "the client".

If you want your application to go through. You need: -

1) Clear letter outlining your employment and conditions with company A - which I assume you have.
2) A clear letter (with all the required info as set out in the checklist) from company B confirming the work you have done for them.

Without this, your application is unlikely to go through. Instead of worrying about the fact that you don't think you can get such documentation, I'd focus on getting it! T4/NOA confirms employment but it doesn't confirm that you completed the skilled work. Present the document checklist, your letter from CIC and basic information on the CEC eligibility to your manage / HR dept. for company B and inform them you are not asking for sponsorship - but your PR application is based purely on your experience to date within Canada. If they fully understand what is being requested, that they aren't sponsoring you and that your ability to stay in Canada is dependant on this - I think you will get it.

Good luck.

 

[blrk]

It's the result of fraud. Pure and simple. CEC is skilled on skilled employment.

You are employed by company A but you actually work on behalf of company B. While company A may pay you etc (and you have a contract with them) you don't actually do the work for them, therefor they cannot confirm the work you complete on a day-to-day basis for company B. If you look through the threats their was a very similar situation 1-2 months ago with someone who was employed through an agency but actually worked for a big bank - what you call "the client".

If you want your application to go through. You need: -

1) Clear letter outlining your employment and conditions with company A - which I assume you have.
2) A clear letter (with all the required info as set out in the checklist) from company B confirming the work you have done for them.

Without this, your application is unlikely to go through. Instead of worrying about the fact that you don't think you can get such documentation, I'd focus on getting it! T4/NOA confirms employment but it doesn't confirm that you completed the skilled work. Present the document checklist, your letter from CIC and basic information on the CEC eligibility to your manage / HR dept. for company B and inform them you are not asking for sponsorship - but your PR application is based purely on your experience to date within Canada. If they fully understand what is being requested, that they aren't sponsoring you and that your ability to stay in Canada is dependant on this - I think you will get it.

Good luck.

Thanks jsm0085 .

This really helps . I will try to see If I can get some kind of reference letter from the clients. However, I have worked for 3 clients . I am going to lawyer in couple of days so want to be prepared .

The reason I was really worried was it was not direct contract A -> B rather A -> I -> B [ I stands for third party ]

There are actually 2 reasons due to which withdrawal option came to my mind in case I find it hard to get reference letters.

1) I already mentioned for FSW I got Medical Request .
2) In case there are problems in FSW as well. My Wife has an open work permit and she has worked purely for canadian companies in last 3.5 years . She will complete 1 year as a full time employee in a bank in next few months and I am thinking of applying through her for CEC then would make a stronger case . None / 'Hardly One' client involved .


BTW >> It's the result of fraud. Pure and simple. CEC is skilled on skilled employment.

Did you mean reason why scrutiny is increased..

 

[jsm0085]

Thanks jsm0085 .

This really helps . I will try to see If I can get some kind of reference letter from the clients. However, I have worked for 3 clients . I am going to lawyer in couple of days so want to be prepared .

The reason I was really worried was it was not direct contract A -> B rather A -> I -> B [ I stands for third party ]

There are actually 2 reasons due to which withdrawal option came to my mind in case I find it hard to get reference letters.

1) I already mentioned for FSW I got Medical Request .
2) In case there are problems in FSW as well. My Wife has an open work permit and she has worked purely for canadian companies in last 3.5 years . She will complete 1 year as a full time employee in a bank in next few months and I am thinking of applying through her for CEC then would make a stronger case . None / 'Hardly One' client involved .


BTW >> It's the result of fraud. Pure and simple. CEC is skilled on skilled employment.

Did you mean reason why scrutiny is increased..

THe scrutiny has been about for a while - it's not that new.

The CEC application is easier than others as it's pass or fail. It's based on skilled work experience. An agency who pays you doesn't actually know what work you have done. CEC just want someone to confirm you have done the work - the reference is vital. As far as scrutiny go, they aren't really requesting anything major! It's perfectly reasonable.

 

[jes_ON]

The reason I was really worried was it was not direct contract A -> B rather A -> I -> B [ I stands for third party ]

1) Do give copies of the contracts that you have, let CIC figure it out (its more risky NOT to give something they asked for).
2) I wouldn't worry about I. Focus on getting a letter from B (one or all three if possible). What CIC really wants is a letter from a Canadian who has witnessed you performing the job duties and responsibilities that you performed as your qualifying experience (that's why the letter from your arms-length employer is not sufficient).

Since your FSW application is in the 2nd stream (arranged employment), it's possible you will face the same questions there as well. Medical request doesn't really mean much in terms of "stages" of processing...

Consulting a lawyer is a good idea...

 

[blrk]

1) Do give copies of the contracts that you have, let CIC figure it out (its more risky NOT to give something they asked for).
2) I wouldn't worry about I. Focus on getting a letter from B (one or all three if possible). What CIC really wants is a letter from a Canadian who has witnessed you performing the job duties and responsibilities that you performed as your qualifying experience (that's why the letter from your arms-length employer is not sufficient).

Since your FSW application is in the 2nd stream (arranged employment), it's possible you will face the same questions there as well. Medical request doesn't really mean much in terms of "stages" of processing...

Consulting a lawyer is a good idea...

So on 2) do you also mean that withdrawal is not such a big advantage over refusal . I was thinking that only as an option since once refusal comes on your file I heard too many questions are asked at the time of reapplying.

 

[jes_ON]

So on 2) do you also mean that withdrawal is not such a big advantage over refusal . I was thinking that only as an option since once refusal comes on your file I heard too many questions are asked at the time of reapplying.

I have not heard that. Esp. with CIC's new infosys, they know exactly why you were originally refused. And several on this board have successfully re-applied. You just need to be forthright about it in the event that you have to re-apply.

 

[blrk]

Hi,

Can somebody provide some inputs on following sample client reference letter.



To whom it may concern:

This letter is to confirm that <my name> currently works for <Client name> via <My Company name>
since <Date > for our project for <Client's client name>

The project requires ... < Project description >

<My Name> performs following role at high level.

Then some duties like ...
Design and develop software applications using <XXX> Technologies.
...

<my name> works 40 hours a week.

Then a brief 4-9 lines about the <Client name> .

Signature

I am not sure if client letter should mention no. of hours .

I already submttied my company's reference letter which has no. of hours , My salary
job duties at high level.

 

[gimmeThatPR]

Hi Singh,

Just wondering if they ever considered reopening your file?
I am in the same situation .Please let me know

Also have you re applied already ?Is it any different than before?

 

[mansari]

Hi,
Congrats on getting your PR. I am also in the same situation as you were. I won my court case, just wanted to know the next procedure. Would be great if you could help me out.

 

[spbalisana]

Hi Singh,


Sorry to hear that you application got rejected. I have gone through with the same situation. My application was also rejected by CIC. Immigration officer called my employer to verify my job duties and pay, but my manager was failed to describe all the duties which I have done, (He described 80% duties but could not described all of them because he was nervous at that time) just because of this reason they refused my file but I challenged their decision in the court and at I won the case and got my PR.

This is just a basic information what to do If your file gets rejected. After talking with my lawyer I found out you can not reopen your file, you can send the clarification letter but they do not accept it because your file is already closed. I think the only way is, to challenge the decision in the court, but for that you have to apply for Judicial Review within 14 days of refusal letter. This process is complex, you need a good lawyer to represent you in the court. And if you want to know complete process, let me know and I would give you all the information. Act fast you do not have much time.

Hi friend.
Could you please send me the name and contact number and email id of your lawyer. Because I also want to file my case