Applicant from PhD program after 5 Nov, 2011 connect here to get status

[asbereth]

Anyway, I just thought that I should share this here (since most likely this information would be most relevant here).

As is probably true for some other Canadian schools as well, the University of Waterloo does not remunerate their graduate students the way some other schools do. The research portion of a graduate student's work is paid through what is called the 'Graduate Research Studentship" (or GRS), which comes under 'other' rather than taxable incomes (T4A rather than T4). As far as immigration is concerned, the problem here is the fact that the money does not actually come from HR, but rather, directly from the graduate school, so I know quite a few number of students wondering if this 'work' experience would count for immigration purposes. To get the TA part credited would be easy since TA income actually do actually show up under the T4s.

A representative from the Canadian Consulate General in Detroit came to our school several weeks ago, and gave a presentation about applying for Permanent Resident status. And as expected, a lot of students were asking questions regarding whether or not the GRS part of their funding can be counted as work experience for immigration purposes.

And the following was her answer (which would be up for your own interpretation I guess):

"Students must provide the T4 (employment income) T4As (Scholarship income) and a detailed letter from their department or advisor detailing that the student has been remunerated for teaching/research conducted, responsibilities of the teaching/research, estimated hours per week the student performs this function, dates for which the remuneration (pay) covers and the dates the student conducted the teaching/research. The amount of financial support (e.g. 37.5 hours per week) should support the amount being paid for that period. For instance, if remuneration was well below the minimum wage the Visa Officer would have concerns."

I suppose incomes that go under T4As do indeed count for immigration purposes, provided that the total funding supports the total number of hours worked for the period (above minimum wage). And since RA/TA can be classified as a skill level A (NOC 4012), then I do not really see any problem in getting it credited as a work experience towards FSW or CEC. And the website does mention that the work experience needs to be 'paid', but nowhere was it stated that it needs to be taxable as well.

 

[TyrusX]

A representative from the Canadian Consulate General in Detroit came to our school several weeks ago, and gave a presentation about applying for Permanent Resident status. And as expected, a lot of students were asking questions regarding whether or not the GRS part of their funding can be counted as work experience for immigration purposes.

And the following was her answer (which would be up for your own interpretation I guess):

"Students must provide the T4 (employment income) T4As (Scholarship income) and a detailed letter from their department or advisor detailing that the student has been remunerated for teaching/research conducted, responsibilities of the teaching/research, estimated hours per week the student performs this function, dates for which the remuneration (pay) covers and the dates the student conducted the teaching/research. The amount of financial support (e.g. 37.5 hours per week) should support the amount being paid for that period. For instance, if remuneration was well below the minimum wage the Visa Officer would have concerns."

I suppose incomes that go under T4As do indeed count for immigration purposes, provided that the total funding supports the total number of hours worked for the period (above minimum wage). And since RA/TA can be classified as a skill level A (NOC 4012), then I do not really see any problem in getting it credited as a work experience towards FSW or CEC. And the website does mention that the work experience needs to be 'paid', but nowhere was it stated that it needs to be taxable as well.

Unfortunately there is not published regulation for the PhD class so far, so everything to this point is pure speculation. They should be updating the OP-6 soon. As far as I know, as of UWaterloo faq:
http://www.gsa.uwaterloo.ca/resources/grs-faq/

The Ten-Hour Rule. A second rule which has bearing on the issues below is the “Ten-Hour Rule,” which states that full-time graduate students cannot be employed by the University for more than 10 hours per week. (References: at UW and provincially). So students should not receive more than 10 hours per week total of funding through TAships, GRAships, and sessional appointments. The University has advised that they will be strictly enforcing this rule.

What I believe is similar regulation to most other universities. This would require 4 years of studies to acquire 1 year of work experience.
Also any interruptions during, for example, during summer/spring terms would affect the experience as well. This is pretty much a gray area so far, as of discussions here in this forums.

Also, for the CEC, you must have graduated with a at-least-two-years-Masters from a Canadian University before doing you PhD, and also have the work experience. As of CEC FAQ as well.

 

[smiling_face]

New Occupational Structure
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/NewNOC.aspx

 

[TyrusX]

TO make it crystal clear. As of OP-12 - STUDENTS, page 19, found via FW-1 Guidelines

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/fw/index.asp
Definition of “on-campus” work

“On-campus” is defined as employment facilities within the boundaries of the campus. The students are only allowed to work on the campus of the educational institution at which they are registered. If an institution has more than one campus, the student can work at different locations on those campuses provided they are within the same municipality. If an institution has campuses in different cities, the student is restricted to working on the institution’s campus where they are registered as a full-time student
There will be cases of students working on campus as teaching or research assistants. In certain circumstances, the work to be performed will require the student to be located at a library, hospital, or research facility affiliated with the institution but located outside the physical boundaries of the institution’s campus. This is allowable provided that the work being conducted is strictly related to the student’s research grant.

(...)

In addition, students working as teaching assistants or research assistants will be considered to be within the scope of “on-campus” employment provided:
• the student has been recommended by officials of their department;
• the work to be performed is directed by a department head or a faculty member; and
• the work takes place in a research institute or program in an affiliated hospital or research
unit.

YET, I could not find anything with respect to limitation in the amount of work done per week, as of University regulations. If a reference letter from a supervisor is enough, then I suspect everyone will qualify. If they request other additional proofs, this may complicate things.

I believe this as much information as it is available.

 

[asbereth]

There has never been a limit as to how many hours per week international students can work ON CAMPUS. And regarding the ten-hour rule, it only applies to TA or GRA, but not GRS (again, this is only true for University of Waterloo, so I'm not sure how the rules are for other schools). The number of hours you work under GRS is completely up to you and your supervisor, and as is required to complete the work.

When you request a letter of verification from HR, the number of hours for your GRS would not show up on the letter. The payroll only deals with taxable incomes that go under the T4s, not scholarship incomes. However, there is never a mention that you need taxable incomes for your work experience to be considered paid work experience, and the representative from Detroit did mention that incomes that come under the T4s would count as well. And from the links you quoted, RA/TA/GRS should indeed count as on-campus work experience.

My interpretation of the matter is, for University of Waterloo students at least, you can only claim up to 10 hours per week for your TA or RA work, but you can claim maybe the remaining 10 hours per week from your supervisor for your work that is funded by GRS, provided that your supervisor agrees to provide you a reference letter.

I got the following from your uwaterloo link (but for some reasons, I cannot yet post direct link):

Will the 10 hour rule be invoked?
GRS: Does not apply as student's activities are for his or her own graduate studies and therefore there should be no expectation of a set number of hours imposed on the student.
GRA: Student can work a maximum of 10 hours per week

Reference letters usually are all that are required to claim work experience, even full-time ones (one of my friends, who is now a PR, got credited for 4 years of full-time experience for his work in India through a reference letter from his manager alone, NOT from payroll). Of course for work experience done in Canada would require proof of income, but that's what the T4 and T4A forms are for (as the visa office from Detroit mentioned).

So for proof of incomes, you attach the T4/T4A forms with your applications, whereas for the number of hours, you get it from your supervisor or your department, that's how I look at it.

And not everybody that has done PhD for two years in Canada would qualify, because, as you mentioned, the whole two years need to be funded without gap for someone to qualify, and they also still need to pass the required 67 points mark. And for self-funded PhD research, your experience would not count as paid work experience.

If they never had work experience outside RA/TA they're doing for PhD (2 years RA/TA amounts to only 1 year of full work experience), and assuming they can claim all 16 points for language requirements, then they would only only have 66 points out of the required 67.

 

[TyrusX]

And not everybody that has done PhD for two years in Canada would qualify, because, as you mentioned, the whole two years need to be funded without gap for someone to qualify, and they also still need to pass the required 67 points mark. And for self-funded PhD research, your experience would not count as paid work experience.

If they never had work experience outside RA/TA they're doing for PhD (2 years RA/TA amounts to only 1 year of full work experience), and assuming they can claim all 16 points for language requirements, then they would only only have 66 points out of the required 67.

I agree with most of what you said. However, I honestly believe that this is a loophole in their rules that they are probably aware of. In my opinion, RA/TA may not be counted as work experience By some of the VISA OFICCERS exactly because its is not clearly stated how this "work" thing is evaluated anywhere. I think it's weird that we can claim that we work full time and study full time as well. IT is very risk in my opinion, even though there are cases that worked for CEC, there aren't a lot of them. Hopefully, we can get a PER from someone in this condition soon so we can help the people who will be able to apply soon. Is there someone here that applied in this condition only and have been cashed already?So we can set the issue and put it on the FAQ?

Also, EVEN If you have higher score than 67 points, if you have no work experience your application will be rejected. this is a must have requirement.

 

[asbereth]

I agree that it is very high risk to claim that we both study and work full-time. However, working full-time means working 37.5 hours per week, so claiming 20 hours per week will not be considered claiming working full-time. Besides, the immigration definition for full-time study only requires you to study for 15 hours a week, so if you claim that you work 20 hours a week while studying full-time, it should still be perfectly acceptable (since the total number of hours would only be 35 hours per week).

And there is no requirement to study full-time for CEC, only that you have the equivalent of one year full-time work experience in Canada after you have obtained a Canadian post-secondary degree. Also, it is stated in the CEC website that you should "have gained your experience in Canada with the proper work or study authorization". So, RA/TA, in my opinion, should be counted, even for CEC (since NOC 4012 is considered skill level A). The challenge is, as is the case for FSW as well, if you are funded through scholarship, then the HR department will not be able to provide you with the number of hours, so this should come from the reference letter from your supervisor.

Hopefully, as you said, somebody else can clarify the matter here.

 

[TyrusX]

asbereth, I agree with you. What I meant there was actually full time studies with part time work. Which we know it is possible but may create confusion in the VO mind.

My discontentment is with the lack of clear regulations with this respect in the CIC documentation and guidelines and with people that may apply and not get through because of this. Ambiguities like this will certainly create problems and make people subject of ill intentioned visa officers. I also believe that the small number of applicants so far, after almost 4 months of this program is related exactly to the fact that people are being told by they department that they cannot apply due to RA/TA thing we have discussed.

I was expecting at least 400 applicants by February and we only have 130. A secondary reason may be the fact that some provinces lke Ontario have Post-graduate Nominee programs, so people are acquiring their PR following that road.

 

[TyrusX]

A list of acronyms used in this forum:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/immigration-acronyms-t3007.0.html

 

[cdhbamboo]

Hi guys,
I am a newbie. My application received at Jan 26, 2012. and nothing happens by now.
I am concerning about the 'continuous' requirement of work experience. My work experience is not continuous strictly(summer break), However, I found this:
Oversea Processing (OP), OP 6 - Federal Skilled Workers (version: 2011-06-17):
Section 7.2 Assessing applications against the Ministerial Instructions issued June 26, 2010
“Anticipated short breaks between jobs are acceptable. For example, if an applicant is employed in one occupation for a 4 month contract and before the end of that contract, has secured other employment that will begin shortly after the end of first contract, this break in continuity would be acceptable.”

Does Anyone have the same concern?

 

[TyrusX]

Hi guys,
I am a newbie. My application received at Jan 26, 2012. and nothing happens by now.
I am concerning about the 'continuous' requirement of work experience. My work experience is not continuous strictly(summer break), However, I found this:
Oversea Processing (OP), OP 6 - Federal Skilled Workers (version: 2011-06-17):
Section 7.2 Assessing applications against the Ministerial Instructions issued June 26, 2010
“Anticipated short breaks between jobs are acceptable. For example, if an applicant is employed in one occupation for a 4 month contract and before the end of that contract, has secured other employment that will begin shortly after the end of first contract, this break in continuity would be acceptable.”

Does Anyone have the same concern?

You should have your application processed this week. No one really know what is really going on on CIC. Some people that applied in November 9 got their application cashed 2 months later. Other got them in 4 or 5 weeks. About the work experience, no one really know how that is going to work, the only people that got applications rejected here has being those with incomplete letter of attestation.
They don't really express what is a short break, do they?
In case you get your application back, don't get disappointed, you can try again after you meet the minimum requirements. However, after discussions here, I believe your experience will suffice and you get cashed soon.

 

[cdhbamboo]

If I cannot meet the minimum requirement(one year continuous work experience) for FSW, but fulfilling the PhD stream requirement, can I get refunded?

 

[TyrusX]

If I cannot meet the minimum requirement(one year continuous work experience) for FSW, but fulfilling the PhD stream requirement, can I get refunded?

You probably will. Remember, even if doesn't work out now, that doesn't mean you don't stand chances later.

 

[TyrusX]

The email address which a PER will come from is as follows, and should be added into your contact list to prevent it from ending up in spam/junk folder:
FSW-Centralized_Intake-Office@cic.gc.ca

The above email is one-way only and cannot be replied to or have emails sent to it.
For an enquiry to CIO, Sydney, use the following email address:
FSW-Sydney-Search-Enquiry@cic.gc.ca
Found on:
http://get2canada.wordpress.com/cicchc-contact-info/

Please let us know if you got your PER already. I'm pretty sure there will be some receive it soon.

 

[Pengliu]

Hi, I was wondering where you put your email address. I just finished filling out the file, but I couldn't find it anywhere. Thanks, guys.