Applicant from PhD program after 5 Nov, 2011 connect here to get status

[Anna2013]

But she had this as the leading statement "she has taught the following five undergraduate courses in XXX subjects to our undergraduate students". I know that there is nothing about research, but she was hired as a part-time instructor which means she is not required to do that!

Thanks my friend. That is my point, I was instructor, and that is "my" lead statement. You all know that instructors are not required to do research.

 

[S_Govind]

I think people in this forum are being unreasonable and defending CIC.

I certainly do not believe so. A few other forum members including me were on the threshold of being rejected (some of them can vouch for this) and it was due to this very forum that most of us were saved. Thus, people on here have no reason to be unreasonable.

All I am saying is that one does not want to leave anything to the officers discretion. There is no guarantee that he/she would use his /her positive discretionary powers to do a substituted evaluation in favor of an applicant given the fact that there is just too many applications for them to deal with.

It is certainly up to us to provide as many documents as possible to support our case. Nothing more or nothing less.

 

[Anna2013]

I certainly do not believe so. A few other forum members including me were on the threshold of being rejected (some of them can vouch for this) and it was due to this very forum that most of us were saved. Thus, people on here have no reason to be unreasonable.

All I am saying is that one does not want to leave anything to the officers discretion. There is no guarantee that he/she would use his /her positive discretionary powers to do a substituted evaluation in favor of an applicant given the fact that there is just too many applications for them to deal with.

It is certainly up to us to provide as many documents as possible to support our case. Nothing more or nothing less.

I am myself thankful to this forum and you guys all; I learned a lot from everyone of you. My point is that, you guys tell me "how I can squeeze conducting research" in the job duties while I am an instructor?

I did provide all my appointment letters + all my paystubs + all my tax returns ... I updated my job letters three times. One thing I cannot do (and will not be able to do) is to ask my employer to "lie" and put false things in my letter.

 

[S_Govind]

Now you tell me, how can I get a letter to say that I did research?


You tell me, what does "some" mean?

I never intended to say that you must get a letter stating that you also did research !. I'm not sure where you getting that from.

That is the reason I wanted to know if you had claimed RA experience as well for which you answered in the negative.

Going by what I know, 'Some' would mean greater than at-least 50% of the duties. Some say it is 75 %.

 

[Anna2013]

I never intended to say that you must get a letter stating that you also did research !. I'm not sure where you getting that from.

That is the reason I wanted to know if you had claimed RA experience as well for which you answered in the negative.

Going by what I know, 'Some' would mean greater than at-least 50% of the duties. Some say it is 75 %.

Please don't take things "personal"; I am just trying to make my point. To me personally, "some" means like 30-40%, but I know that it is only my personal point, and indeed my letters have more than 50% (however, I am judging by N_O's counting, I do not know how to count the percent of job duties). My native supervisor believes the same as I did discuss this with him before. I would love to hear the opinion of member of this forum about how much "some" is.

 

[hamed_hamed_hamed]

Please don't take things "personal". I am just trying to make my point. To me "personally", some means like 30-40%, but I know that it is only my personal point, and indead my letters have more than 50% (however, I am judging by N_O's counting, I do not know how to count the percent of job duties). My native supervisors believe the same as I did discuss this with him before. I would love to hear the opinion of member of this forum about how much "some" is.

So sorry to hear that. I know how it feels. The NOC 4011 University professors and lecturers is obviously a wrong combination. They put two different jobs with different requirements under a single code. And the result will be the rejection of those who are "instructors". I myself claimed instructorship and am now so worried. Surprisingly they accepted my instructorship letter last year even though it was way shorter than yours, and the one I sent this year.

I think this is a bug in the NOC codes. They should separate university professors from instructors. Having the two jobs under a single code, your letter is simply deniable.

Look, regarding the word "some", it is true that they mentioned it in the page, but it is not the CIC website. For the CIC regulations, they want a "substantial" number of duties not "some" of them.

Do you live in ON? If so you can apply through PNP. For the CEC, you are a postdoc, so good chances to get hired next year as a tenure track, instructor, research fellow, etc. I understand how you feel now, it is not your fault. By the way, why you did not apply for some jobs? Just apply and get offers, and then use them in your application.

 

[N_O]

I think this is a bug in the NOC codes. They should separate university professors from instructors. Having the two jobs under a single code, your letter is simply deniable.

Well said!

 

[Anna2013]

So sorry to hear that. I know how it feels. The NOC 4011 University professors and lecturers is obviously a wrong combination. They put two different jobs with different requirements under a single code. And the result will be the rejection of those who are "instructors". I myself claimed instructorship and am now so worried. Surprisingly they accepted my instructorship letter last year even though it was way shorter than yours, and the one I sent this year.

I think this is a bug in the NOC codes. They should separate university professors from instructors. Having the two jobs under a single code, your letter is simply deniable.

Look, regarding the word "some", it is true that they mentioned it in the page, but it is not the CIC website. For the CIC regulations, they want a "substantial" number of duties not "some" of them.

Do you live in ON? If so you can apply through PNP. For the CEC, you are a postdoc, so good chances to get hired next year as a tenure track, instructor, research fellow, etc. I understand how you feel now, it is not your fault. By the way, why you did not apply for some jobs? Just apply and get offers, and then use them in your application.

I was instructor and that's all I did, for that job I did NOT do research, I did NOT serve on committees and I did NOT lead students' research. But I was "really" an instructor and do believe that my job letter was flawless as an instructor and it is under NOC 4011 code. When they refer us to the national occupation code, then they should also follow that, and they must read it and follow it as it is. I don't think there is a flaw with NOC codes, they cannot make a separate code for every little thing, they put several jobs together and mention that they may perform "some or all".

I don't live in ON. I did apply for jobs for the past 3-4 years. In my field, it is almost impossible to get a surviving job (don't even mention tenured ones), particularly when you are international.

 

[Nadees]

This forum has always been such nice forum to vent your emotions by sharing the good and bad experiences. I applied under the PhD stream (NOC 4011) in 2012 while I was a PhD candidate. My application got rejected in 2013 because of this "some" vs. "substantial" stupidity that some of you guys have so nicely explained. I applied again under the same NOC, this time thoroughly revising the job experience letter (earlier it was just a short verification letter - please see my earlier posts). Here's is a draft of the new letter I provided. Please share your experience and judgement regarding my chances of surpassing that "substantial" bar this time- I am getting really pessimistic :-X.

------------------------------------------------
To Whom it May it Concern

Re. Experience Certificate

This letter is written to confirm that Dr. xxx was an employee as lecturer in the Department of xxx at University of xxx , starting from xxx to xxx.

His pay scale had been as follows:
xxx
xxx

Dr. xxx’s normal workload was 40 hours per week during his period of employment ( xxx to xxx). His main duties in the Department of xxx were as follows.

1. Teach at least three Bachelor of Science (BSc) and/or Master of Science (MSc) courses per semester.
2. Conduct original research in xxx with the goal of publishing results in peer reviewed journals.
3. Assist in department’s other academic and administrative duties such as proctoring and grading exams, curriculum development and student’s career counseling.

A summary of his work experience accumulated during his lectureship is given below.

Teaching Experience

He variously taught the following courses at the Department of xxx.

(i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (v)

Courses (ii), (iv) and (v) above also included computer lab components. He also taught the following course in Department of zzz as a visiting faculty in years xxx.

(vi)

The teaching responsibilities carried out by him included (a) preparing and delivering lectures, (b) supervising course projects, (c) holding office hours to assist and tutor students with coursework and projects, (d) conducting weekly lab sessions, (e) providing and proctoring exams, and (f) marking assignments and exams.

Research and Consultation Experience

Dr. xxx was one of the active research members in the department. His research contributions were as follows.

Peer Reviewed Publications:

Publication 1

Acknowledged Contributions (please see the acknowledgments sections):

Publication 2

Professional Consultation: Apart from his research activities, he was actively engaged in providing xxx consultation to … .


Academic and Administrative Services

Dr. xxx provided following services in addition to the duties listed above.

(i) He was quite instrumental in providing his input in departments curriculum development activities…
(ii) The other administrative duties he performed throughout his tenure were …, …
(iii) He was also assigned the task of …. (another specialized administrative duty)

We found Dr. xxx to be a motivated professional and dedicated to acquiring and imparting knowledge and education. This is also reflected by the fact that he has just recently complete his PhD degree in xxx from xxx. We wish him good luck in all his future endeavours.

Should you need further information, please do not hesitate to contact me at xxx or by email xxx.

Yours Sincerely,
xxx
------------------------------------------------

 

[SJ2013]

Hi Anna,

Is this the only work experience you included in your package? You worked for 15 hours per week for a period of about one and a half years. This seems less than one year of full time experience and this might be the reason of your rejection.

To whom it may concern:

This is to confirm that Ms. XXX was employed as a Sessional Instructor in the department of XXXX at XXX University from May 2010 to December 2011. The appointment was on a part-time basis and she worked approximately 15 (fifteen) hours per week and a total of 1286 hours during her employment.

Ms XX was a holder of “Master of Science” degree at the time of her employment, and she has taught the following five undergraduate courses in XXX subjects to our undergraduate students:

1- XXXXXXXXXXXX-Salary: (from XX to XX) $YY,
2- XXXXXXXXXXXX-Salary: (from XX to XX) $YY,
3- XXXXXXXXXXXX-Salary: (from XX to XX)) $YY,
4- XXXXXXXXXXXX-Salary: (from XX to XX) $YY,
5- XXXXXXXXXXXX-Salary: (from XX to XX) $YY,

As a university instructor, her main duties and responsibilities during her employment included:

1- Preparing and delivering the lecture materials (according to the curriculum determined by the Faculty and approved by senate to the satisfaction of the Dean ) to the students and conducting group works or activities,
2- Designing and preparing the assignments, term tests and final examinations,
3- Preparing and posting the solutions to the assignments and tests,
4- Advising the students enrolled in the courses and keeping scheduled office hours for the students seeking extra help,
5- Giving academic advise to a group of first year students on their academic decisions,
6- Administrating the term tests or final examinations,
7- Giving the students appropriate feedbacks and guidelines, marking term tests and final examinations and,
8- Compiling and submitting the students' final grades.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any further information.

 

[Anna2013]

Hi Anna,

Is this the only work experience you included in your package? You worked for 15 hours per week for a period of about one and a half years. This seems less than one year of full time experience and this might be the reason of your rejection.

No, I claimed TA as well, 4 years but very few hours... Totally equivalent to 3 months. I also was post-doc, which is also under the NOC 4011. For my postdoc they said the same thing, they said it does not have substantial duties.... Because again postdocs also are not like real faculties and they are not required to teach or serve on committees. However, I was teaching at the same time when I was postdoc.

The thing is that according to my GCMS, SL**** did accept the wording of my instructorship letter, which was even a bit simpler but the same concepts, but I updated three times.

 

[Stuck In Quebec]

No, I claimed TA as well, 4 years but very few hours... Totally equivalent to 3 months. I also was post-doc, which is also under the NOC 4011. For my postdoc they said the same thing, they said it does not have substantial duties.... Because again postdocs also are not like real faculties and they are not required to teach or serve on committees. However, I was teaching at the same time when I was postdoc.

The thing is that according to my GCMS, SL**** did accept the wording of my instructorship letter, which was a bit simpler even but the same concepts, but I updated three times.

Hey Anna this is very unfortunate and a rerun of the stories going around for a long time. Consult an immigration expert and apply in apt category. I was contemplating that too (still am until it is over). With new rules and stuff, they might be able to guide you better. Keep hope.

 

[Anna2013]

Hey Anna this is very unfortunate and a rerun of the stories going around for a long time. Consult an immigration expert and apply in apt category. I was contemplating that too (still am until it is over). With new rules and stuff, they might be able to guide you better. Keep hope.

What is apt?

 

[S_Govind]

Is this the only work experience you included in your package? You worked for 15 hours per week for a period of about one and a half years. This seems less than one year of full time experience and this might be the reason of your rejection.

This did not catch my eye. However, based on OP's previous posts, I guess the minimum requirement (one year of continuous full time work experience) was not met due to mismatch of job duties .

 

[S_Govind]

What is apt?

I guess he refers to other immigration programs such as the PNP in your province (you can apply upto two years after completing your PhD, at-least in Ontario) or the CEC.