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nima2000

Star Member
Oct 2, 2012
80
2
Hi everyone,
I sent the POF and PCC about a month ago after I was asked. The thing is that my wife has been working for part time in a clothing store since 9 month ago and I have not informed the CIC so far about that. Do you think I should inform them at this point. If yes what kind of documents should I send them?
 

NeverGiveUp

Star Member
Mar 26, 2013
95
12
MJ2 said:
Ok, here is the end to my application:

Dear XX: Your application for permanent residence in Canada in the Federal Skilled Worker Class was considered on its substantive merits but was refused. You were provided with the decision containing the reasons for refusal of this application in our message thereby fully concluding this application.
Please be assured that every consideration was given to your application and we regret that our reply could not be more favourable.

Thanks FA01772 for giving "every consideration" to my application by not seeing my letter.
Waste of $1100, time and hope.
I am feeling that re-applying won't work for me. What can I change compared to previous one. :-| :-X

I wish others do fine or at least don't get stuck with FA section.
You guys were awsome. Thanks to everyone who helped.
Once again, I'm really sorry. They have been receiving too many updated RA/TA reference letters recently, they probably became suspicious... Or maybe they have been following this forum...
 

anjuku

Hero Member
Mar 6, 2012
408
45
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo (now transferred to Ottawa)
NOC Code......
4011 and 4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-04-2012
Doc's Request.
16-05-2013
Nomination.....
25-04-2012 (PER)
IELTS Request
SENT WITH APPLICATION (OVERALL BAND SCORE 8.5)
Med's Request
17-05-2013
Med's Done....
23-05-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
04-06-2013; Passports sent in on 22-06- 2013; Passports received by ottawa on 25-06-2013
VISA ISSUED...
visas received on July 9, 2013
LANDED..........
July 10, 2013
NeverGiveUp said:
Once again, I'm really sorry. They have been receiving too many updated RA/TA reference letters recently, they probably became suspicious... Or maybe they have been following this forum...
yes that is what i think as well..i think they are now getting overwhelmed by the increasing number of updated reference letters that they just decided to find something else :(
 

Parkinson

Hero Member
Apr 12, 2013
236
8
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-Ottawa
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
29-Apr-2013
Doc's Request.
18-July-2013
AOR Received.
14-May-2013
Med's Request
5-Jun-2014
Passport Req..
27-Jun-2014
VISA ISSUED...
8-July-2014
NeverGiveUp said:
Once again, I'm really sorry. They have been receiving too many updated RA/TA reference letters recently, they probably became suspicious... Or maybe they have been following this forum...
It's not the case. MJ2 mentioned that his updated letter was the same as his first letter:
MJ2 said:
Thanks asbereth, Never, Parkinson,
The fact is that my first letter was also the same as this one. I updated my reference letter because I was sending my pcc in March.
I am writting them a reply. Thanks for your advice. I will keep you posted and ask for more help from you guys.
 

beh467

Hero Member
May 2, 2012
304
19
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
MJ2 said:
Ok, here is the end to my application:

Dear XX: Your application for permanent residence in Canada in the Federal Skilled Worker Class was considered on its substantive merits but was refused. You were provided with the decision containing the reasons for refusal of this application in our message thereby fully concluding this application.
Please be assured that every consideration was given to your application and we regret that our reply could not be more favourable.

Thanks FA01772 for giving "every consideration" to my application by not seeing my letter.
Waste of $1100, time and hope.
I am feeling that re-applying won't work for me. What can I change compared to previous one. :-| :-X

I wish others do fine or at least don't get stuck with FA section.
You guys were awsome. Thanks to everyone who helped.
I'm sorry for your rejection. Maybe the problem with your letter is that it misses assist in research activities which is the lead statement of NOC 4012.
 

S_Govind

Hero Member
Apr 15, 2013
295
35
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-08-2012
Doc's Request.
15-04-2013
Nomination.....
01-11-2012 (Date of PER)
IELTS Request
Enclosed with the application
File Transfer...
01-11-2012 from CIO to CPP-O
Med's Request
23-11-2013 (RPRF requested on 22-11-2013)
Med's Done....
26-11-2013 Med's Received:06-01-2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014, Decision Made:09-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
06-01-2014
LANDED..........
21-01-2014
NeverGiveUp said:
Once again, I'm really sorry. They have been receiving too many updated RA/TA reference letters recently, they probably became suspicious... Or maybe they have been following this forum...
Even if they do become suspicious they do have the resources to investigate it. For example, they can schedule an interview with the applicant (I have come across cases like this- doubts regarding duties actually performed). Thus they simply cannot reject a letter based on just face value. What they could do is compare your original letter with the updated ones to see how consistent they are.
 
Jul 12, 2013
18
0
Hello everybody, I'm considering to apply for permanent residency through the Federal Skilled Worker PhD stream. I wonder if anyone can clarify the new rules regarding the work experience that affect those who applied on or after May 4, 2013. It says that in order to be eligible the applicant must have one year of continuous, full-time (or an equal amount of part-time) paid work experience, in at least one of these occupations within the last ten years:

0211 Engineering managers
1112 Financial and investment analysts
2113 Geoscientists and oceanographers
2131 Civil engineers
2132 Mechanical engineers
2134 Chemical engineers
2143 Mining engineers
2145 Petroleum engineers
2144 Geological engineers
2146 Aerospace engineers
2147 Computer engineers (except software engineers/designers)
2154 Land surveyors
2174 Computer programmers and interactive media developers
2243 Industrial instrument technicians and mechanics
2263 Inspectors in public and environmental health and occupational health and safety
3141 Audiologists and speech-language pathologists
3142 Physiotherapists
3143 Occupational Therapists
3211 Medical laboratory technologists
3212 Medical laboratory technicians and pathologists' assistants
3214 Respiratory therapists, clinical perfusionists and cardiopulmonary technologists
3215 Medical Radiation Technologists
3216 Medical Sonographers
3217 Cardiology technologists and electrophysiological diagnostic technologists

Does it mean our TA/RA work experience also must fit or be related to one of the above occupations? Will we not be eligible if we worked as TA for humanities or social sciences? I would appreciate your comments.
 

asbereth

Hero Member
Feb 17, 2012
866
43
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-02-2012<br>PR Fee Charged: 05-03-2012<br>PER Received..: 21-03-2012
Doc's Request.
26-02-2013<br>In process.....: 21-03-2013
Med's Request
22-03-2013
Med's Done....
26-03-2013 <br>Med's Received: 15-04-2013 <br>Decision Made: 15-04-2013
Passport Req..
16-04-2013
VISA ISSUED...
29-04-2013 <br>COPR ISSUED..: 15-05-2013<br>VISA RECEIVED: 16-05-2013
LANDED..........
16-05-2013
S_Govind said:
Even if they do become suspicious they do have the resources to investigate it. For example, they can schedule an interview with the applicant (I have come across cases like this- doubts regarding duties actually performed). Thus they simply cannot reject a letter based on just face value. What they could do is compare your original letter with the updated ones to see how consistent they are.
I actually think that the problem is as stated by beh467, in that, they have been receiving so many updated reference letters recently, that they probably started think that the only way NOC 4012 work experience letter can be accepted is if it contains the explicit mention that the applicant assists professors in their research activities.

I agree that 'assisting prof in data analysis' should count, since 'data analysis' is definitely a research activity, and 'assisting in the preparation and administration of examinations' should count as 'assisting professors in teaching activities', since proctoring exams is definitely a teaching activity as well. But all the spoon-feeding they have been receiving lately must have somehow shaped their thinking that, unless it is explicitly mentioned, then it's not valid.

Sad, but it's hard for me to really postulate any other reasons behind MJ2's rejections :(

Otherwise, what you said was correct, in that, if they are suspicious that your letters match too exactly with lead statement and main duties prescribed in the website, then they should request for clarifications, since they cannot just reject it and say that it doesn't match, because the descriptions did match.
 

asbereth

Hero Member
Feb 17, 2012
866
43
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-02-2012<br>PR Fee Charged: 05-03-2012<br>PER Received..: 21-03-2012
Doc's Request.
26-02-2013<br>In process.....: 21-03-2013
Med's Request
22-03-2013
Med's Done....
26-03-2013 <br>Med's Received: 15-04-2013 <br>Decision Made: 15-04-2013
Passport Req..
16-04-2013
VISA ISSUED...
29-04-2013 <br>COPR ISSUED..: 15-05-2013<br>VISA RECEIVED: 16-05-2013
LANDED..........
16-05-2013
Gloryintoronto said:
Hello everybody, I'm considering to apply for permanent residency through the Federal Skilled Worker PhD stream. I wonder if anyone can clarify the new rules regarding the work experience that affect those who applied on or after May 4, 2013. It says that in order to be eligible the applicant must have one year of continuous, full-time (or an equal amount of part-time) paid work experience, in at least one of these occupations within the last ten years:
Hi Gloryintoronto,

What you mentioned was eligibility to apply for PR under the eighth ministerial instructions. It is true that having a paid work experience in one of the listed 24 occupations would make you eligible to apply for PR under FSWP.

The PhD stream, however, is another way to be eligible to apply under FSWP. If you are eligible under PhD stream, then as long as your work experience is either under skill level A, B or O, then they should count for the purpose of calculating work experience.

Experience (15 points)

80. (1) Points shall be awarded, up to a maximum of 15 points, to a skilled worker for full-time work experience, or the equivalent in part-time work, within the 10 years before the date on which their application is made, as follows:

(a) 9 points for one year of work experience;

(b) 11 points for two to three years of work experience;

(c) 13 points for four to five years of work experience; and

(d) 15 points for six or more years of work experience.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), points are awarded for work experience in occupations, other than a restricted occupation, that are listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/page-34.html#docCont
 

ASG

Star Member
Aug 18, 2011
168
28
Canada
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
MJ2 said:
Here is the wired part.
I compared my ref. letter with a friend of mine. He had the same wording: "assisting prof in data analysis" but didn't have "assisting in the preparation and administration of examinations". He doesn't have assisting in research or teaching activity either. I noticed that he has got his medical two-three weeks ago based on his words. He is an April applicant.
This doesn't sound fair at all. :-X
MJ2 you definitely have a basis for appeal.
Instead of using the 1,100 $ to reapply, go see an immigration lawyer, and appeal. Your case is definitely one of the "unfair, not understandable rejections" ones.
 

beh467

Hero Member
May 2, 2012
304
19
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
MJ2 said:
Here is the wired part.
I compared my ref. letter with a friend of mine. He had the same wording: "assisting prof in data analysis" but didn't have "assisting in the preparation and administration of examinations". He doesn't have assisting in research or teaching activity either. I noticed that he has got his medical two-three weeks ago based on his words. He is an April applicant.
This doesn't sound fair at all. :-X
I think it is better to go to MP. Go there and explain them that they have rejected you because your letter does not match the lead statement while it does. Ask them to call Ottawa to reconsider your application assessment.
 

salem10

Hero Member
Jul 6, 2010
438
75
Ontario, since 2006
Visa Office......
Buffalo
NOC Code......
0711/4131/4121
Pre-Assessed..
Yes
App. Filed.......
10-05-2010
Doc's Request.
Nov 02, 2010
AOR Received.
May 19, 2011 from buffalo
IELTS Request
submitted writtin sample (accepted)
Med's Request
April 14, 2012
Med's Done....
June 10, 2011, again in May 02, 2012 -medical furtherance June29-2012
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
Waiting
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting
LANDED..........
20-06-2015
ASG said:
MJ2 you definitely have a basis for appeal.
Instead of using the 1,100 $ to reapply, go see an immigration lawyer, and appeal. Your case is definitely one of the "unfair, not understandable rejections" ones.
I am not agree with generlize this assumption. I am not belive that all of reference letters are acurate and represent the actual practice that person doing. Be truthfull and write what you are actual doong. I follwed alot of Phd strem applicants most of youare copy the reference letter without asking him or her self what I am actual doing
And importantly all of you are supporting this trend. Is this fraud And should be reported
This shoul be stop. We know what RA or TA. Its not that pratice or experience. And should be not considered as experinece at all
 

S_Govind

Hero Member
Apr 15, 2013
295
35
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-08-2012
Doc's Request.
15-04-2013
Nomination.....
01-11-2012 (Date of PER)
IELTS Request
Enclosed with the application
File Transfer...
01-11-2012 from CIO to CPP-O
Med's Request
23-11-2013 (RPRF requested on 22-11-2013)
Med's Done....
26-11-2013 Med's Received:06-01-2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014, Decision Made:09-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
06-01-2014
LANDED..........
21-01-2014
salem10 said:
This shoul be stop. We know what RA or TA. Its not that pratice or experience. And should be not considered as experinece at all
Get your facts right first before commenting on malpractice. First of all RA/TA experience is a valid form of experience and I would like to point out that it has a corresponding NOC code-4012 (in case you have cared to know what NOC is which I assume you do). Second of all, many members on this very forum have got their PR based on this experience and their cases have been evaluated by CIC which I believe is more competent than you and me.

Next coming to your point of copying and pasting from the NOC website. How could this be misrepresentation. For example all researchers like me do a thorough literature review initially before commencing experiments and then we do have to perform experiments in order to progress and get our degrees. Hence, we very clearly conduct laboratory or computational experiments in addition to assisting our supervisors one way or the other.

Rejecting or accepting applications is something for CIC to decide and not people on this forum who pass sweeping comments just as you did now. Period....
 

asbereth

Hero Member
Feb 17, 2012
866
43
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-02-2012<br>PR Fee Charged: 05-03-2012<br>PER Received..: 21-03-2012
Doc's Request.
26-02-2013<br>In process.....: 21-03-2013
Med's Request
22-03-2013
Med's Done....
26-03-2013 <br>Med's Received: 15-04-2013 <br>Decision Made: 15-04-2013
Passport Req..
16-04-2013
VISA ISSUED...
29-04-2013 <br>COPR ISSUED..: 15-05-2013<br>VISA RECEIVED: 16-05-2013
LANDED..........
16-05-2013
S_Govind said:
Get your facts right first before commenting on malpractice. First of all RA/TA experience is a valid form of experience and I would like to point out that it has a corresponding NOC code-4012 (in case you have cared to know what NOC is which I assume you do). Second of all, many members on this very forum have got their PR based on this experience and their cases have been evaluated by CIC which I believe is more competent than you and me.

Next coming to your point of copying and pasting from the NOC website. How could this be misrepresentation. For example all researchers like me do a thorough literature review initially before commencing experiments and then we do have to perform experiments in order to progress and get our degrees. Hence, we very clearly conduct laboratory or computational experiments in addition to assisting our supervisors one way or the other.
NOC 4012 is considered a skill level A, so it should definitely qualify for the purpose of immigration work experience (both to satisfy the minimum requirements, and also for the purpose of points calculation; it cannot be used to qualify you under FSW1 though, since NOC 4012 is not part of the listed 24 occupations, so before you can claim RA/TA work experience, you need to first qualify to apply to begin with).

Most people initially had problems because most RA is not taxable, thus, could not get the number of hours worked per week from HR, since most RA funding came in the form of lump-sum rather than pay-checks. However, there was never a requirement for a funding to be taxable, and the requirement for work experience letter is that it needs to be signed by the responsible officer or supervisor, of which academic supervisors are definitely qualified. I made it very clear on my work experience letter that my RA funding was never taxable, and always comes in the form of lump-sum, and they did not seem to raise any issues for it.

Regarding copy-pasting, the manual made it clear that one should never copy-paste directly from the HRSDC website because it would make it hard for the officers to evaluate if the applicant really performs the duties. This is true for a lot of occupations with broad duties such as, maybe, Mechanical Engineering, or Civil Engineering. For example, if you specify that you're working on refrigeration, you are not likely to also be designing aeroplanes as well.

For NOC 4012, even if most RA/TA just copy-pasted the whole job descriptions from HRDSC, I bet you they really did perform all of the duties prescribed there, especially for RA. As S_Govind has already mentioned, an RA is likely to perform experiments, literature review, data analysis, and also assisting professors in research activities (such as publishing papers, of which the profs will be co-authors, etc).

While it is still NOT advisable to just copy-paste the duties and lead statement, even if you do perform everything, they still cannot accuse you of misrepresentation or fraud if you really have committed or performed all the duties you wrote on your letters...
 

S_Govind

Hero Member
Apr 15, 2013
295
35
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-08-2012
Doc's Request.
15-04-2013
Nomination.....
01-11-2012 (Date of PER)
IELTS Request
Enclosed with the application
File Transfer...
01-11-2012 from CIO to CPP-O
Med's Request
23-11-2013 (RPRF requested on 22-11-2013)
Med's Done....
26-11-2013 Med's Received:06-01-2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014, Decision Made:09-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
06-01-2014
LANDED..........
21-01-2014
asbereth said:
Most people initially had problems because most RA is not taxable, thus, could not get the number of hours worked per week from HR, since most RA funding came in the form of lump-sum rather than pay-checks. However, there was never a requirement for a funding to be taxable, and the requirement for work experience letter is that it needs to be signed by the responsible officer or supervisor, of which academic supervisors are definitely qualified. I made it very clear on my work experience letter that my RA funding was never taxable, and always comes in the form of lump-sum, and they did not seem to raise any issues for it.

Regarding copy-pasting, the manual made it clear that one should never copy-paste directly from the HRSDC website because it would make it hard for the officers to evaluate if the applicant really performs the duties. This is true for a lot of occupations with broad duties such as, maybe, Mechanical Engineering, or Civil Engineering. For example, if you specify that you're working on refrigeration, you are not likely to also be designing aeroplanes as well.

For NOC 4012, even if most RA/TA just copy-pasted the whole job descriptions from HRDSC, I bet you they really did perform all of the duties prescribed there, especially for RA. As S_Govind has already mentioned, an RA is likely to perform experiments, literature review, data analysis, and also assisting professors in research activities (such as publishing papers, of which the profs will be co-authors, etc).

While it is still NOT advisable to just copy-paste the duties and lead statement, even if you do perform everything, they still cannot accuse you of misrepresentation or fraud if you really have committed or performed all the duties you wrote on your letters...
Good post asbereth ! +1 for you. A friend of mine incidentally got his PR in 2010 by claiming Full time RA/TA experience. His processing office back then was Buffalo and the VO did ask him to give a split between the hours spent on his research and TA ships. Back then, the immigration system was flexible and they had this exclusive stream for international students. I just missed that by a whisker. Was gathering documents when they changed the system !!

I do agree with you that copying and pasting is not desirable as we have been taught not to plagiarize!! (an academic offence as they put it). We could however add more details for example just of saying that we conduct literature reviews something like performing literature reviews for gathering information about the stress corrosion cracking of an alloy might instill some confidence in the VO evaluating the application.

I think this plays a role in some of the rejections we saw, especially MJ_2. If he had added more detail into each of his duties it would have been much better I feel