Apostasy, fear of persecution.

[Inkhaurt]

Don't know if that would help your situation specifically. Some figures (2014) to help make your assessment.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-refugees-by-the-numbers-the-data-1.3240640#admitted2014

All you can do at this time is find a way to Canada, either through moving to a third country and applying through UNHCR or via a TRV to Canada. If you were a student in the past, and followed the requirements (i.e. stayed off IRCC and CBSA's radar, apply for the visa. Your past history will be of benefit, if there were no issues previously.

There are no issues between me and the IRCC or the CBSA during my 3-year stay in Canada.

I don't feel safe here and I feel like I could be snuffed out at anytime.

1-Saudi Arabia being a Tier 1 Country of Particular Concern according to the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom might help me with my BOC (Basis of Claim) at the hearing with the IRB-RPD.

2-There are National Documentation Packages (NDPs) on Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada's website that speak of the Saudi Arabian human rights violations and the religious persecution cases that could possibly add points to the legitimacy of my claim.

3-The constitution of Saudi Arabia is the Quran and the Sunni teachings of Mohammed. And it states that if anybody changes their religion are to be executed. There have been reports of executions documented in NDPs on the IRB website that could solidify my claim.

4- Saudi Arabia does not hand subpoena or court summoning to apostates before they are arrested nor arrest warrants are presented. They are simply just taken away and put into imprisonment, sometimes indefinite jail time, until they are taken to a court to undertake prosecution under apostasy ...... Therefore, I cannot provide an evidence or a proof at a BOC hearing.

I think those 4 reasons stated above can really help me out stretching my chances at the hearing in court. But I don't wanna risk it for now. I have to make sure by doing more research before flying to Canada and making a claim there. I did contact some immigration lawyers in Toronto via e-mail and currently waiting for replies.

 

[Inkhaurt]

Don't know if that would help your situation specifically. Some figures (2014) to help make your assessment.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-refugees-by-the-numbers-the-data-1.3240640#admitted2014

All you can do at this time is find a way to Canada, either through moving to a third country and applying through UNHCR or via a TRV to Canada. If you were a student in the past, and followed the requirements (i.e. stayed off IRCC and CBSA's radar, apply for the visa. Your past history will be of benefit, if there were no issues previously.

All of these 4 points I stated are listed under evidence that IRB-RPD requires at court. 5-Furthermore, my mental and physical health are deteriorating due to fear and I can get evaluated by a psychiatrist when I arrive at Canada.

All of that is counted as evidence except that I don't have photographs, threatening letters,threatening videos, threatening emails, or other documents that show the problems I have.

 

[Inkhaurt]

Don't know if that would help your situation specifically. Some figures (2014) to help make your assessment.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-refugees-by-the-numbers-the-data-1.3240640#admitted2014

All you can do at this time is find a way to Canada, either through moving to a third country and applying through UNHCR or via a TRV to Canada. If you were a student in the past, and followed the requirements (i.e. stayed off IRCC and CBSA's radar, apply for the visa. Your past history will be of benefit, if there were no issues previously.

The problem is that I'm not in persecution as of now, BUT will be in the future, and that future might be coming forth tomorrow, the day after, a month from now, or a year from now.

 

[Inkhaurt]

Don't know if that would help your situation specifically. Some figures (2014) to help make your assessment.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-refugees-by-the-numbers-the-data-1.3240640#admitted2014

All you can do at this time is find a way to Canada, either through moving to a third country and applying through UNHCR or via a TRV to Canada. If you were a student in the past, and followed the requirements (i.e. stayed off IRCC and CBSA's radar, apply for the visa. Your past history will be of benefit, if there were no issues previously.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/claiming-asylum-if-you-fear-but-haven-t-experienced-persecution-your-country.html

That is considered in the US..... Maybe it is considered in Canada as well?

 

[vensak]

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/claiming-asylum-if-you-fear-but-haven-t-experienced-persecution-your-country.html

That is considered in the US..... Maybe it is considered in Canada as well?

It sounds nice, but a good lawyer will be needed. You might be also missing the well documented part (where you need to prove that people in your position do undergo unfair treatement and discrimination).
And not just on level where neighbours would reject you but more on the level where you would get an arrest order and official charges because you left islam as religion (and let say you became atheist - that would be the closest official statement to what you are).
You also need a proof from your own country law where such thing is stated. And even if your country does follow sharia law, you still have it somehow written especially to deal with evolving changes. So you need to prepare those parts as well.

 

[Inkhaurt]

It sounds nice, but a good lawyer will be needed. You might be also missing the well documented part (where you need to prove that people in your position do undergo unfair treatement and discrimination).
And not just on level where neighbours would reject you but more on the level where you would get an arrest order and official charges because you left islam as religion (and let say you became atheist - that would be the closest official statement to what you are).
You also need a proof from your own country law where such thing is stated. And even if your country does follow sharia law, you still have it somehow written especially to deal with evolving changes. So you need to prepare those parts as well.

There are hrw.org articles, news articles, national US documents, national documentation packages NDPs or the IRB website, The Quran and Sharia Law being the constitution of Saudi Arabia, my psych eval.... All of that do cooperate with my FUTURE well-founded fear. And if I claim asylum in Canada and that puts me in the public eye of the Saudi authorities, I will be waiting for an arrest if I to return to Saudi Arabia with a rejected claim...... will it though? If claim asylum, would the Saudi authorities be alerted of my asylum claim? Would the Canadian embassy contact the Saudi embassy?

 

[Inkhaurt]

It sounds nice, but a good lawyer will be needed. You might be also missing the well documented part (where you need to prove that people in your position do undergo unfair treatement and discrimination).
And not just on level where neighbours would reject you but more on the level where you would get an arrest order and official charges because you left islam as religion (and let say you became atheist - that would be the closest official statement to what you are).
You also need a proof from your own country law where such thing is stated. And even if your country does follow sharia law, you still have it somehow written especially to deal with evolving changes. So you need to prepare those parts as well.

This is important....... I just found this out on the IRB website. Very crucial!
http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom/references/LegJur/Pages/RefDef05.aspx

 

[vensak]

This is important....... I just found this out on the IRB website. Very crucial!
http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom/references/LegJur/Pages/RefDef05.aspx

If you want to do that you need to prepare yourself. 2 basic options, get tourist visa for Canada to claim there or go outside your country to do the same claim.

If there is a way officialy leave your old religion in Canada, you might consider it in order to support your claim.

However you can still check for any other option when it comes to use economic stream to immigrate.
As claiming asylum is a rather risky way (if ever it will get rejected, then you will be facing deportation to your home country).

 

[Inkhaurt]

If you want to do that you need to prepare yourself. 2 basic options, get tourist visa for Canada to claim there or go outside your country to do the same claim.

If there is a way officialy leave your old religion in Canada, you might consider it in order to support your claim.

However you can still check for any other option when it comes to use economic stream to immigrate.
As claiming asylum is a rather risky way (if ever it will get rejected, then you will be facing deportation to your home country).

My previous plan was to claim asylum as soon as I land at Pearson International Airport, however it changed..... Now I'm going to land in Toronto with tourist visa and seek an immigration lawyer there that can offer some counsel on the pressing matter before applying for an asylum claim.

I don't think there is an official way to leave Islam in Canada. I think leaving a religion is choice and not something regulated by the Canadian government or any official outlet. However, I will look if there is when I arrive there. ..... There is only one way to leave Islam which is public announcement. There are some Saudies who left or renounced Islam in YouTube videos and during their escape they were extradited in a transit flight back to Saudi Arabia awaiting long jail times or executions.

 

[vensak]

My previous plan was to claim asylum as soon as I land at Pearson International Airport, however it changed..... Now I'm going to land in Toronto with tourist visa and seek an immigration lawyer there that can offer some counsel on the pressing matter before applying for an asylum claim.

I don't think there is an official way to leave Islam in Canada. I think leaving a religion is choice and not something regulated by the Canadian government or any official outlet. However, I will look if there is when I arrive there. ..... There is only one way to leave Islam which is public announcement. There are some Saudies who left or renounced Islam in YouTube videos and during their escape they were extradited in a transit flight back to Saudi Arabia awaiting long jail times or executions.

If I understand correctly, as the moment where you claim for asylum, you just fill in first application on the airport (personal data, reason and such stuff). After that you shall get a hearing and for that hearing itself you shall prepare strong enough case. That is where the lawyer comes in. But you shall already seek in advance to prepare evidence for your case. Especially documents that you can only get from your country and that will be hard to obtain once outside.

Also be ready that the moment you start with refugee claim you might not be able to return to your home country ever again (that includes seeing your family and such stuff).

That is why I was advising to recheck economical streams instead.

 

[Inkhaurt]

If I understand correctly, as the moment where you claim for asylum, you just fill in first application on the airport (personal data, reason and such stuff). After that you shall get a hearing and for that hearing itself you shall prepare strong enough case. That is where the lawyer comes in. But you shall already seek in advance to prepare evidence for your case. Especially documents that you can only get from your country and that will be hard to obtain once outside.

Also be ready that the moment you start with refugee claim you might not be able to return to your home country ever again (that includes seeing your family and such stuff).

That is why I was advising to recheck economical streams instead.

I can either claim at the airport, or claim at a CIC office in Dundas Toronto. In that way I can prepare with a lawyer even before filing for a claim. Which means I can study the subject with an immigration lawyer and see if I have strong case or not.

And, not being able to see my family doesn't worry me at all. Corcern for my safety worries me. Though, I want to know if claiming asylum in Canada will put me in the public eyes of Saudi Arabian authorities.

 

[vensak]

I can either claim at the airport, or claim at a CIC office in Dundas Toronto. In that way I can prepare with a lawyer even before filing for a claim. Which means I can study the subject with an immigration lawyer and see if I have strong case or not.

And, not being able to see my family doesn't worry me at all. Corcern for my safety worries me. Though, I want to know if claiming asylum in Canada will put me in the public eyes of Saudi Arabian authorities.

Yes, claiming asylum can leak to SA officials:
1. if you get accepted, you will not be able to renew your passort or use it anymore. if you do that then you will loose your asylum right or even possible citizenship later (your passport means that you are protected from your country).
2. If you will be rejected, it will be followed by deportation and of course they will inform your country authorities.

So when leaving like that be ready not being able to go back ever or deal with your country authorities.

 

[Inkhaurt]

Yes, claiming asylum can leak to SA officials:
1. if you get accepted, you will not be able to renew your passort or use it anymore. if you do that then you will loose your asylum right or even possible citizenship later (your passport means that you are protected from your country).
2. If you will be rejected, it will be followed by deportation and of course they will inform your country authorities.

So when leaving like that be ready not being able to go back ever or deal with your country authorities.

I did more research on the proof of persecution. There 2 are types of evidence that go hand in hand that are inferred at the hearing. Subjective and objective fear of persecution...... I lack the objective fear of persecution proof which is an evidence of current or past persecution....... There is a very thin chance that I could win asylum in Canada. I feel a sense of hopelessness already........ Thank you, Vensak, for sticking up with me. This was very educational nonetheless.

 

[Inkhaurt]

Just received a fresh supply of hope 2 days ago. A reply from a Vancouver based immigration lawyer stating this:


"""You do not have to prove that you have been persecuted. What you need to establish is that you have a credible basis that gives rise to your fear of persecution. The threshold is fairly low.



With respect to about proof, there are two aspects of the proof you need. One is for the objective case establishing how Saudi deals with a rejection of Islam and taking on a new belief system. That should be fairly straight forward as there is plenty of documentation describing the attitude of the regime to apostates..



The second aspect is establishing your subjective fear. In other words, proof to establish your credibility about your conversion. Usually, this is based on your own evidence since it does relate to your subjective fear. The assessment will be whether your evidence on the conversion is consistent and believable and that you do not contradict yourself. Also, you should be able to articulate what your new belief system is and offer a reasonable explanation as to why you converted. I did a quick google search of Diesm and Islam and came across an article at this link:



http://www.deism.com/whydeismshahnawaz.htm



If you can make it to Canada, I can see no reason why you could not make a claim.



If you would like a more detailed discussion, please contact us to book an Initial Consultation. The cost is $280.00



Best Regards"""

 

[vensak]

Practically they said you something similar than what you already read here.
Please also count with following worth case scenario:
In case you will fail your refugee claim, it might come to the point of deportation or to the moment, where you will be for years on very uncertain status.
If you return to your country then I guess you have idea what will be the next.
It can also lead to the point where you will not be admissible to Canada for long time because of failed claim.

That is the part that you need to take into consideration as a possible outcome.

So the decision will be up to you.