Anyone familiar with J1 regulations for a permanent resident ?

[Crappydoc]

I am a doctor, I am going to be a permanent resident next summer. I thought if I can do 3 years training in the US and get certified from there then return to Canada. I read in Health Canada website that Canadian permanent residents are allowed to go to the US for that purpose on J1 visa for a maximum of 7 years provided they can prove they will be eligible for a license in Canada after they return (which I can prove)

So how will the 3 years I will spend in the US gonna affect my PR status ? Will I be exempted from the 2/5 years rule ? Will those years count as if I am in Canada ?

Please anyone help me to understand this. Thanks

 

[PMM]

Hi

I am a doctor, I am going to be a permanent resident next summer. I thought if I can do 3 years training in the US and get certified from there then return to Canada. I read in Health Canada website that Canadian permanent residents are allowed to go to the US for that purpose on J1 visa for a maximum of 7 years provided they can prove they will be eligible for a license in Canada after they return (which I can prove)

So how will the 3 years I will spend in the US gonna affect my PR status ? Will I be exempted from the 2/5 years rule ? Will those years count as if I am in Canada ?

Please anyone help me to understand this. Thanks

1. You have reside for 2 years in Canada in every 5. Health Canada and Immigration are 2 different things, there is no allowance for training outside Canada/

PMM

 

[Crappydoc]

I know health Canada is different from immigration, but there are special cicumstances in which a PR is exempted from this rule. In Health Canada it is said clearly that a PR can go to the US as "Exchange visitor". I will be given a document called "statement of need". Any PR is eligible for this. If my PR status will be void, they wouldn't write that in an official website. This is an agreement between Canada and the US.

"Candidates in this category are medical graduates not currently enrolled in Canadian postgraduate medical training and not already fully licensed to practice medicine in a specialty in a Canadian province or territory. This category includes graduates of medical schools not accredited by the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools (CACMS) or the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME).

To be eligible the candidate must be:

A Canadian Citizen or Permanent Resident in Canada

and

A medical graduate not currently enrolled in Canadian postgraduate medical training and not already fully licensed to practice medicine in Canada

Applicants in this category will be pursuing medical specialty training that will enable them to obtain:

specialty certification by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC), and
a licence to practice medicine in a specialty in a province or territory in Canada. "

 

[PMM]

Hi

I know health Canada is different from immigration, but there are special cicumstances in which a PR is exempted from this rule. In Health Canada it is said clearly that a PR can go to the US as "Exchange visitor". I will be given a document called "statement of need". Any PR is eligible for this. If my PR status will be void, they wouldn't write that in an official website. This is an agreement between Canada and the US.

"Candidates in this category are medical graduates not currently enrolled in Canadian postgraduate medical training and not already fully licensed to practice medicine in a specialty in a Canadian province or territory. This category includes graduates of medical schools not accredited by the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools (CACMS) or the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME).

To be eligible the candidate must be:

A Canadian Citizen or Permanent Resident in Canada

and

A medical graduate not currently enrolled in Canadian postgraduate medical training and not already fully licensed to practice medicine in Canada

Applicants in this category will be pursuing medical specialty training that will enable them to obtain:

specialty certification by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC), and
a licence to practice medicine in a specialty in a province or territory in Canada. "

Read Section 61 of the Immigration Regulations which is the law. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-2002-227/page-3.html#anchorbo-ga:l_5-gb:l_2 There are no such exemptions as you state.

PMM

 

[Crappydoc]

here is the section from the law :

"Employment outside Canada

(3) For the purposes of subparagraphs 28(2)(a)(iii) and (iv) of the Act, the expression “employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province” means, in relation to a permanent resident, that the permanent resident is an employee of, or under contract to provide services to, a Canadian business or the public service of Canada or of a province, and is assigned on a full-time basis as a term of the employment or contract to
(a) a position outside Canada;
(b) an affiliated enterprise outside Canada; or
(c) a client of the Canadian business or the public service outside Canada."


I underlined the sentences which can apply to me being in a training position in the US in order to practice medicine in Canada after i return. Health Canada will give me a document called "statement of need" which means that they will need my services after I return.


Anyway, it turned out to be more complicated than I expected. I will email Health Canada to see if they have any idea about immigration regulations. I will let you know about their response.

Thanks

 

[PMM]

Hi

here is the section from the law :

"Employment outside Canada

(3) For the purposes of subparagraphs 28(2)(a)(iii) and (iv) of the Act, the expression “employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province” means, in relation to a permanent resident, that the permanent resident is an employee of, or under contract to provide services to, a Canadian business or the public service of Canada or of a province, and is assigned on a full-time basis as a term of the employment or contract to
(a) a position outside Canada;
(b) an affiliated enterprise outside Canada; or
(c) a client of the Canadian business or the public service outside Canada."


I underlined the sentences which can apply to me being in a training position in the US in order to practice medicine in Canada after i return. Health Canada will give me a document called "statement of need" which means that they will need my services after I return.


Anyway, it turned out to be more complicated than I expected. I will email Health Canada to see if they have any idea about immigration regulations. I will let you know about their response.

Thanks

I will try once more, in the above statement you will not be employed by public service or a province of Canada. Health Canada would not be employing you, only giving you a letter. Also you are not working you are studying.

PMM

 

[Crappydoc]

Dear PMM,

I am not asking if this is possible or not because I am sure it is possible. Many people are doing this. I was just asking about the details from someone who is familiar with that specific situation.

Health Canada is not a health club, It is the ministry of health which is part of the government. All the information given by Health Canada are derived from laws and statutes governing doctors and other health related professions.

According to the US law, to be accepted to enter the United states on J1, an applicant must be able to demonstrate that s/he will return to his/her country of residence for 2 years. This country must supply the applicant with a document called the statement of need to satisfy this requirement. The statement of need isn't a "letter", it is a legal document by which the Canadian government is obliged to keep that applicant for two years in Canada. Otherwise it will not only be misleading the applicant himself, but also be violating the agreemnet with the United states regarding this issue.

Also, a residency program in the US, is not studying. It is a full time job. Studying in the US is a different story. It is done on F1 visa and not on J1.

Thanks again for your time. If it happens that i know further details, I will post it hear.

 

[ragiso]

Hi,
Did you have any luck finding out if the 3 years of residency training in a field of need is accepted as time in Canada? I am also in the same boat.

 

[Alabaman]

Dear PMM,

I am not asking if this is possible or not because I am sure it is possible. Many people are doing this. I was just asking about the details from someone who is familiar with that specific situation.

Health Canada is not a health club, It is the ministry of health which is part of the government. All the information given by Health Canada are derived from laws and statutes governing doctors and other health related professions.

You'd be surprised at how laws conflict each other. So make sure you do your research well before jumping.

 

[andygill11]

Dear PMM,

I am not asking if this is possible or not because I am sure it is possible. Many people are doing this. I was just asking about the details from someone who is familiar with that specific situation.

Health Canada is not a health club, It is the ministry of health which is part of the government. All the information given by Health Canada are derived from laws and statutes governing doctors and other health related professions.

According to the US law, to be accepted to enter the United states on J1, an applicant must be able to demonstrate that s/he will return to his/her country of residence for 2 years. This country must supply the applicant with a document called the statement of need to satisfy this requirement. The statement of need isn't a "letter", it is a legal document by which the Canadian government is obliged to keep that applicant for two years in Canada. Otherwise it will not only be misleading the applicant himself, but also be violating the agreemnet with the United states regarding this issue.

Also, a residency program in the US, is not studying. It is a full time job. Studying in the US is a different story. It is done on F1 visa and not on J1.

Thanks again for your time. If it happens that i know further details, I will post it hear.

Similar situation. Any updates on this?

 

[dpenabill]

Similar situation. Any updates on this?

To the extent that @Crappydoc (apparently not active here in nearly a DECADE) was asserting a Canadian PR could be outside Canada on a U.S. J1 visa, pursuant to some sort of statement of need from Health Canada, and that would meet the PR Residency Obligation or otherwise waive the RO, the first four letters of the user ID tell the tale. Nope.

A post by the same user approximately two weeks later than above suggests the doctor likely figured this out:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/modifying-pr-residency-requirements.28484/
but was not inclined to return to this topic to acknowledge it.

For how it actually works, see @PMM's responses above.

In general, with the exception of being abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse, a Canadian PR will need to meet the PR Residency Obligation by being actually physically present in Canada at least 730 days within any and all five year time periods (commencing with the date of landing; thus, RO is met as long as the PR can meet the presence requirement by the fifth year anniversary and thereafter have spent 2/5 years IN Canada for every day going forward after that). There are some exceptions for employed by Canadian government or a Canadian business (cited by @Crappydoc), but these exception are rather NARROW and NOT relevant in the context discussed here; the employed-abroad-pursuant-to-a-temporary assignment exceptions are discussed at length in other topics here.

 

[canuck78]

Similar situation. Any updates on this?

Have you done your residency already? Have you made enquires about doing a residency in the US? Most IMGs will never get licensed in Canada especially specialists. Even Canadian doctors graduating are having difficulty getting hired in Canada. Unless you don’t want to work as a physician I would encourage exploring immigration or working in other countries like the UK or other European countries and the gulf countries. Even the US provides opportunities for physicians if they are willing to commit to working into more rural areas for a certain amount of years.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-nearly-one-in-five-new-specialist-doctors-cant-find-a-job-after/

 

[21Goose]

Similar situation. Any updates on this?

As others have said, you still have to meet your Residency Obligation.

 

[missmywife]

Bumping this old thread as I am in a similar situation now - and unfortunately for me my PR card has already expired. 2 members have provided valuable advise to me already in a thread I started but still wanted to see if anyone else in my similar situation and if they could get any useful info.

 

[jakklondon]

Bumping this old thread as I am in a similar situation now - and unfortunately for me my PR card has already expired. 2 members have provided valuable advise to me already in a thread I started but still wanted to see if anyone else in my similar situation and if they could get any useful info.

Since your spouse is Canadian citizen, your circumstances are very different from OP. You have many options that OP didn't have. You can probably count days in US when your spouse was with you as if you were in Canada (for RO purposes) and return to Canada while you are within RO requirements.
You could return to Canada even if you completely failed RO, appeal if reported and probably prevail during the appeal.
If you lost your appeal down the road, by the time you lost it you could probably qualify for PR as a spouse of Canadian citizen (provided she can start the process as soon as you enter Canada). There are so many options available to you (unlike OP), that I wouldn't waste a day thinking of it if I were you. I would just focus on my residency, getting my credentials to become a doctor and eventually return to Canada and deal with RO issues (which is nothing serious to be concerned of, just some more hassle and paperwork dealing with bureaucracy).