answer from rome - they did a LOT OF MISTAKES

[mirkopal]

Hi guys
finally we got the letter from rome. They refused us. BUT THE LETTER IS FULL OF MISTAKES.

I am going to tell you
in the first paragraph they said that they completed the assessment of the application of PR visa as a member of family class. And that he determined that he does not meet the requirements.

ok here the mistake. after having explained that under subsection 12(1) of the immigration procedures which are the categories who can apply as PR (married, common law or conjugal partner) they wrote:
Pursuant to section 2 of the regulations, a conjugal partner means, in a relation to a sponsor, a foreign national residing outside Canada who is in a conjugal relationship with the sponsor and has been in the relationship for at least one year.
You have resided with your sponsor for only short period of time. Under the Immigration and Refuges Protection act there is no provision for fiance'e or intended common law partners. If a Canadian and a foreign national can get married and establish a common law relationship, this is what they are expected to have done before they submit sponsorship and immigration application.

OR, WE DID NOT APPLY AS CONJUGAL PARTNER! WHY DO THEY MENTION THAT?? WE APPLIED AS COMMON LAW! AND YES, i LEFT CANADA IN OCTOBER 2008 AND LIVED IN PARIS SINCE THEN....until DECEMBER 2009. WE SENT PROOF OF RENT, WORK FOR ME ETC....

moreover they say that the subsection 130(1) (b) states that a sponsor should be Canadian or permanent Resident. And on the evidence submitted, I am satisfied that your sponsor, xx, does not reside in Canada and did not do so the day which the application was filled and from that day on which the application was filed and from the day until the day a decision was made in repesct to the application.Specifically I am not satisfied that your sponsor resided in Canada since October 2008 and lives permanently in france since jauary 2009 nor that he has immediate intention to return to Canada.


people are crazy. First, we sent the application FROM CANADA, IN CANADA IN DECEMBER. WE WERE IN TORONTO, at the Eaton centre. My partner was in Montreal until one month ago ( we moved to Toronto together last month). since december. he went to visit me in france 3 times for 4 days since then. and the dates: they said that he did not live in Canada since 2008, exactly

 

[mirkopal]

he left canada in september 2008. and Started living in france since november 2008. We sent each proofs of this world. and he left france in december 2009 (when we sent the application). He was inscribed at the university writing his thesis. but the craziest part is

HE HAS NOT INTENTION TO RETURN IN CANADA. he was in canada! and since june 1st he s working at the provincial government in ontario!!!

finally they say that are sending a letter to the sponsor notifying that the appeal provisions...and the appeal provisions are addressed to MY SPONSOR BUT IN MY ADDRESS IN PARIS! i MEAN, he does not live there since december 2009, we sent tons of mails to rome when he was going to visit me in paris and that we changed the address....
what do u things?

these things are crazy. really.

can you please suggest me how should I proceed? do you think we should get married and do appeal? we will do

 

[mirkopal]

moreover, why did they give all the documents back???everything....

 

[canadianwoman]

Oh, Mirkopal, I am so sorry to read this.
If I were you I'd get married and apply again. Appeals take so long - you usually have to wait a year or more, whereas applications from Rome are usually done quicker than that. But if you are able to stay in Canada with your sponsor while you are waiting for the appeal, it might be OK.

 

[mirkopal]

so do u suggest me to get married and apply again?

i mean will be worth it and especially FASTER than the appeal? what about the mistakes in the letter? are crazy mistakes...only thinking to write this thing again makes me sick...really.

can you please give me some opinions..?

 

[joecreosta]

they have a point.

but they have mistake mailing papers from canada.

get married apply again

 

[mirkopal]

ok can I ask you an information guys

1. can you please tell me if we can submit a new application if we get married. and if yes, how long after? and can we do it inland, (we are both in canada right now).

2. as we need to say in the application if we have been refused?we wanted to get marry and we are going to do it now. but should we send the same proofs? and mostly, new med and new polices certificates?


I would like to cry and leave it everything...really...

 

[canadianwoman]

The first mistake - the 'conjugal partner' - I think they meant to write 'common-law partner.'
The second, where they don't realize the sponsor is back living in Canada - clearly they didn't understand something.

Is this timeline right?
October 2008 - December 2009: the sponsor and partner are living together in Paris
December 2009 - May 2010: sponsor is living in Montreal; partner is living in Paris
June 2010 - now: sponsor and partner are living together in Toronto

You mailed the application in December 2009.

If this timeline is right, maybe the months from Dec. 2009 to May 2010 where one was living in Paris and one was in Montreal was too long, and CIC considers that it 'breaks' the cohabitation necessary for common-law applicants?

 

[mirkopal]

for sure.
listen in the application we sent we wrote that we were common law partners. We always wanted to get married but we waited for me to established here etc. we were planning to get married in november but we will do it now at this point. I don t care.

my question is:
should we send an application again"? still, as outland...or inland if it is faster. this time we will be as married. if they ask me why i am applying again, we will say that we wanted to get married, our marital status changed and so on.

should we justify why we are sending a new application again? that it has been refused etc?
and about the medical. it expires in dec, 2010 so it s still valid. should we include this one?

at this point it seems that the appeal is not something we will do. because it seems to be too long. please let us know..


other question: do you think we should send an email to rome saying that there have been mistakes in their letter?

 

[joecreosta]

inlands are longer from what i see

 

[canadianwoman]

You can send in a new application. Usually if the situation is the same, the result is the same, so applying again after you get married would be best.
The same proof is fine, plus whatever else you can get from your cohabitation now, and the wedding.

I don't know about reusing the medical and police certificates. Try phoning the CIC helpline and asking. (Though they sometimes give conflicting advice.)

You'll have to explain why you're applying again. Maybe just saying the cohabitation requirement wasn't met - in the eyes of the visa officer - would be enough.

Writing a formal letter of complaint about the mistakes and including proof is warranted in this situation. If the sponsor was clearly working in Canada according to your evidence, then the visa officer made a big mistake. Send it to the embassy and to CIC. Don't however, expect them to overrule the visa officer. They'll expect you to either appeal or apply again.

 

[mirkopal]

yes you are right.
I think I will refuse the appeal, get married and saying the same things you said. I mean they are questioning on the criteria of the relationship.
in the letter they did not question or say nothing against the genuineness of the relationship...this means that it s not in discussion the love we have one for each other...right?

 

[mirkopal]

maybe we can send in the new application the letter of refusal and saying that right now we have the requirements for applying that we did not meet in their letter. doi u suggest me that>
I prefer not being into polemics with them because it can only cause more problems when they see that we are trying to be in conflict with them....

 

[mirkopal]

just acknowledging that the requirements before were not met and right now they are (as married) I mean....

 

[canadianwoman]

Yes, they refused you just based on the cohabitation requirements and Canadian residencey requirements not being met (in their opinion - clearly the sponsor was residing in Canada). There's nothing about the genuineness of your relationship in the refusal letter.
Showing the refusal letter, and proving that the requirements are now being met, would be good.

And there is always a debate on whether to complain. Looking forward to your new application, and not dwelling on this one, would probably be the best emotionally.