Almost Ready to Apply Outland... right track?

[Kayaker]

Hi, and thanks for even reading this far.

I am a Canadian citizen living in Canada. My fiancée is a Japanese citizen currently living in Japan. I’m flying there in December and we will get married there. The “ceremony” will essentially be only a document signing process, not a big ceremony. We will have a reception back in Canada this summer when both her family and my family can attend. We opted to get married sooner in order to begin the Outland PR process sooner and for her to be able to visit me (and extend the visit) while we wait out the process. We’re wanting to give you all some details and see if we’ve overlooked anything. All feedback welcome and appreciated.

We only met face to face in June of this year, and lived together for about 2 months total (July Aug). We met each other online 18 months ago. We have literally thousands of pages worth of online communication as well as skype logs etc. We have dozens of physical letters as well.

1. How much of the online communication do you recommend submitting with the application? A sampling? All of it? We will of course submit the skype call logs which take up less space and the scanned letters and photos. Because we’ll have little to document of the wedding itself, should we include more online communication? We can get letters of congratulations from many people if that would help.

When I return to Canada in January, I’ll submit our application. I need to wait for my (then) wife to send me translations of marriage license etc and a copy of her updated passport with name-change. Then we’ll submit, and we’re hoping the first stage approval will be done by late February so she can come over here to visit in March.

2. She’s planning to extend her stay as long as possible. If she has a return ticket when she arrives, is it best to have one dated 6-months later? It’s much cheaper to get one dated a month later. Would the Customs Officer likely just give a 6-month stay or would they look at the return date and give a shorter stay?

3. Any red flags you see other than possibly the short time we’ve known each other? I have life insurance through work. Does changing my beneficiary to her look good to CIC? How would I submit that evidence, and should she do likewise by purchasing her own small life insurance plan just for evidentiary purpose? All seems rather clinical, but so does letting CIC rifle through our love-letters, so I guess it’s just to be expected.

Thanks so much, this site has been a real miracle to us and has helped us get our act together these past couple of months.

Kevin

 

[Rob_TO]

3. Any red flags you see other than possibly the short time we've known each other? I have life insurance through work. Does changing my beneficiary to her look good to CIC? How would I submit that evidence, and should she do likewise by purchasing her own small life insurance plan just for evidentiary purpose? All seems rather clinical, but so does letting CIC rifle through our love-letters, so I guess it's just to be expected.

The short time meeting in person... to getting married and applying for PR... is a huge red flag. In having an administrative wedding only "in order to begin the Outland PR process sooner", this is basically a marriage of convenience. If it wasn't for her applying for PR, the natural course would be to get married in the summer in Canada as you said.

So if the VO reviewing your file sees that you've only met in person for the first time in June, then did the paperwork for marriage with no real ceremony/reception only 6 months later, there is a VERY high chance she will be summoned for an interview which will need to happen in Japan. Remember one of the top ways a VO tells if the marriage is real or not... is by the size of ceremony and how many people attend.

For financial proofs, life insurance is a good one. I also had one though my employer, so just brought up the details online and printed it out. Her buying one also in Japan would strengthen your case. If you have a credit card look at getting her added as a secondary/supplemental user, then printing off a bill that shows both your names.

Good luck with your app. Hopefully you get an easy VO, but as I said don't be surprised if an interview is required.

 

[Kayaker]

Thanks Rob_TO,

Although it's not the answer I was hoping for, you make sense. We'll look again at her coming here as a visitor and getting married at a later date, but with the lengthy (uncertain?) processing times in Manila, it's pretty discouraging. With those times creeping up, are more people looking at inland applications? It's not really an option here as my fiancee's mom has been unwell, and travel back to Japan might be necessary.

Thanks again.
K

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks Rob_TO,

Although it's not the answer I was hoping for, you make sense. We'll look again at her coming here as a visitor and getting married at a later date, but with the lengthy (uncertain?) processing times in Manila, it's pretty discouraging. With those times creeping up, are more people looking at inland applications? It's not really an option here as my fiancee's mom has been unwell, and travel back to Japan might be necessary.

Thanks again.
K

Remember this is just my opinion and nothing more. By all means you can try submitting the PR app asap as you intended. In general applicants from visa-exempt countries are seen as less risky, so even with some red flags in the application you may get full approval with no interview required. This kind of thing, lots of it comes down to luck and chance, or if the VO happens to be in a good or bad mood when assessing the application!

Whether of not you have the PR app in progress or not, as a visa-exempt passport holder she should be able to enter Canada as a visitor with no problems.

 

[Kayaker]

Noted
I guess there's a fear or desire by most people to avoid the interview process. Is it that it means they are leaning towards denying residency, and thus it's a last chance to argue the case? I can see that would put even the most sincere couple through some stress.
Thanks again. We'll give it more thought.
Kevin

 

[mikemckell84]

Also many want to avoid the interview as their spouses end up coming to Canada before residency is granted and opt to do the flagpole landing. My wife is here as a tourist and it would be a pain if she were requested to do an interview. We hadnt planned on this but with the long waits, the distance was too much.

 

[keesio]

1. How much of the online communication do you recommend submitting with the application? A sampling? All of it? We will of course submit the skype call logs which take up less space and the scanned letters and photos. Because we'll have little to document of the wedding itself, should we include more online communication? We can get letters of congratulations from many people if that would help.

Just a sampling is needed. Some people go nuts and send printouts of everything and mail a huge packet. That is too much and probably just bogs down the case officer who has to sort through piles of papers. My wife and I actually did NOT submit any e-mails or IM chats. I submitted skype call logs for just two separate months and a bunch of boarding passes for when i flew down to see her. I always say quality is better than quantity. Same goes for your pictures too.

 

[Kayaker]

Thanks Mike and keesio. Flagpoling... had to look that one up. Something to keep in mind down the road. Now if we can just decide whether to go ahead with the PR application now or wait.

 

[Kayaker]

Hi again,
Talking with my fiancee and weighing our options, we're trying to figure out how to accumulate evidence that might satisfy CIC that our relationship is legitimate. Rob has pointed out the red flag of a short time knowing each other, a small wedding, and a quick to follow PR application. So, how would CIC weight each of these factors:
-more time spent apart
-more time spent together before marriage
-more time spent together after marriage but before PR application

Is it easier for someone coming to Canada from a visa exempt country to be visiting their fiancee or their husband? How likely would they be to be refused entry?

Thanks for the help to make wise choices here.

 

[keesio]

I don't think a small wedding is that big a deal. I had a small-ish wedding & reception (~40 people). Some people have had smaller (like 10 people or less) and had no issues with CIC. I think as long as you can have at least a few family members show up, that is fine.

 

[mikeymyke]

You have nothing to worry about, Japanese citizens have a high acceptance rate for spousal sponsorship.

 

[Rob_TO]

I don't think a small wedding is that big a deal. I had a small-ish wedding & reception (~40 people). Some people have had smaller (like 10 people or less) and had no issues with CIC. I think as long as you can have at least a few family members show up, that is fine.

Normally yes... however in the OPs case he is referring not just to a small wedding, but a document signing event which I assume is done at the local government building. Also they have only met for the first time in June of this year.

If a couple has dated for years and then elopes with a tiny wedding, that is fine. Meeting someone in person for the first time then having a government marriage barely 6 months later then apply for PR... sorry but that is a big red flag. Just because someone is visa-exempt doesn't exempt them from interviews, so all i'm saying is OP should be careful, and hopefully are submitting a ton of other proofs that will support their relationship is real.

 

[chala]

If I were you, I would have her come to Canada as a visitor and after she arrives file Outland. Your application to sponsor will be processed within 30 days and she will be in the queue for PR processing. If you both want to stay together beyond her 6 months visitor limit, she can file an online visitor extension which will be processed within about a month and most likely will be granted.
Good luck.

 

[Kayaker]

Thanks everyone. This all helps.

Are there ever cases where applications are denied outright without even an interview? We're thinking now of having a ceremony of some sort in Japan, although it would still be small. We've discussed and figure that IF she's called for an interview, by that time we would have much more evidence, more time together here in Canada, and it should be easier to demonstrate the legitimacy of the relationship.

Thanks again

 

[Rob_TO]

Are there ever cases where applications are denied outright without even an interview?

There would only be a rejection with no interview, if it had to do with ineligibility cases. i.e. if sponsor/applicant had serious criminal record, contagious disease, if they were ineligible for family class, etc.

Any question about the legitimacy of the relationship, i believe must ALWAYS will be given an interview to clear up any doubts.

We're thinking now of having a ceremony of some sort in Japan, although it would still be small.

That's a very good idea considering the small amount of time you will have known each other in person. If you read people's experiences of ordering their GCMS notes from the VOs processing their files, practically all of the VOs make a point of stating if the wedding was big, small, lots of people etc etc. Having a small ceremony where you can submit pictures of friends/family attending, is a hundred times better than just signing documents at a government office with nobody else there.