After 5 Years...Rejected!!!!!

[emamabd]

Became PR: Oct 2008
Citizenship Application: Nov 2010
4 years period:Nov 2007 - Nov 2010(Partly Student Visa)
Citizenship Test: March 2012 (Scarborough Centre)
Hearing with Aris Babikian: Oct 2014

I made my biggest mistake in my life and sent my citizenship application 58 days earlier, and now after 5 years Judge(Babikian) rejected my case.

During 2007-2010, I went to university in Canada and I was working in one of the canadian bank with all the paychecks available. After hearing, Babikian told me that everything is fine with my case and it is just one missing border stamp in my passport which he would inquire from the border control. He even asked for my police report 2 months ago and then after he received it, he declined my case.

He gave me the option either to apply again or apply for judicial review. I have been in Canada since Dec 2004 and I may have been out of country not more than 4 month during this time. I am so upset with this extreme unfairness of the system and I am asking for help from whoever has knowledge with this matter to help me if I should re-apply or apply for judicial review.


In advance, thanks for your help and respond.

Its a sad story, but as other have advised the best way forward is to re-apply. Good luck!

 

[screech339]

Now the interesting question is : Can CO deny/ reject the application now under the new law or Still applicant has to see a Judge before denial letter send to applicant.

The CO can deny the application if the total days required is short of 1460 presence days. So no arbitrary decision, no gray zone. Either you meet the 1460 days or you don't. Don't need to see judge to determine that. No worries about judge deciding to give a pass or not.

You only need to see the judge if you have proof positive with concrete evidence that you actually meet 1460 days and CIC still denied you. In other words, you can request a judicial review.

Once the backlog of applicants seeing the judge is cleared, the new procedure will be more efficient since now the judges can focus on administering oaths and judicial reviews. The application process can go a lot faster without the judges being bogged down by applicants believing they should get citizenship without meeting the 1095 day requirement.

 

[AUTO101]

Of course they got their citizenship resolved in 10-11 months. Did any of them didn't meet the 1095 day requirement and end up having to see a judge? Probably not. I'm sure your friends/family actually meet the 1095 day requirement and gotten their citizenship in the expected timeline. So I can say with confidence that if any of your friends/family had to see a judge, it probably would take them up to 5 years to see a judge after submitting application.

There are currently 32 citizenship judges. Now take that number and spread it among thousands of applicants who have to see a judge individually. I wouldn't be surprised if it took one applicant up to 5 years to see a judge after submitting application, regardless of who is in government. Statistically it would probably take that long to see a judge.

You are right. This is not any governments fault but of an applicant that is either incapable to calculate his/her residency requirement or thinks he/she is VERY SPECIAL and should be given ROYAL TREATMENT.

If everyone follow the rules, I am sure very few people will be needed to see a citizenship judge in their process.

 

[Bigudi]

Listen, I know it is super sad and I totally sympathize with OP. It's 5 years that he will never get back.

Bot honestly, who "miscalculates" 58 days in a time frame of 1095 days?
People forget to check a little box on the form, to write "N/A" on some black spaces or to sign the back of their photos. Heck, one can even miscalculate a full week of their physical days.

But two entire months? That sounds like a really complicated case to defend.

 

[Ardi77]

People are not being rude, they are being blunt since you are not "getting it"...

It seems like it's the only way to get it through your head (which now seems to not work either)

You now need to stop whining and listen up real good;

1. You lacked the residency requirement to apply for Citizenship.
2. You were called for a test and to see a judge because that is the procedure... Even though you didn't meet the requirement, you might still be granted citizenship depending on your case and your situation, this is assessed on a case by case basis... You did not qualify, neither did the judge think that your situation were worthy of forgiving the miscalculation...
3. You now have the opportunity to reapply (if you do meet the new residency requirements)

Now please stop wasting everyone's time and stop acting like a child that has been grounded....

Thanks for guiding me to understand how the sysytem works. It sounds you are familiar with this matter ???, so could you please help me to understand why the judge was just asking me questions about this past 5 years and if I was in the country...

And at the end he told me there is one missing stamp on your passport and I will inquire from border and if you entered to Canada at that time "YOU ARE FINE AND I WOULD SEND YOU TO TAKE OATH...."

These are Aris Babikina words, so please try to explain what am I missing here....

 

[Ardi77]

What these judges are getting paid for if they can't realize I have waited 5 years and I am missing 56 days.

So MAYBE after 8 years and passing citizenship test, I can be a canadian now.... the argument that because I have applied earlier so I should be failed anyway can be easily programmed for a computer so we don't really need a judge to use his intelligent to make decision based on different circumstances....

 

[Ardi77]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you believe that just because you had a hearing with a judge, that meant you were supposed to be granted citizenship 100% guaranteed. You were not. No matter what proof you presented, the judge was not satisfied with it.

The whole point to see a judge was to give you a chance, to see if in spite of the shortcomings of your application, they would give you an exemption. Unfortunately for you, they did not, but as part of the process, the hearing with the judge was not pointless.

Please stop putting comments here, if you don't have enough information.....
I was asked with the judge for hearing to bring my tax forms or any documents that can prove my presence in Canada even for after 2010 that I applied.
And I was being asked for one hour about my stay in Canada for the time after 2010....

He asked me for the permission to inquire about my border records, so it wouldn't be hard to prove for my presence here for theses past 8 years..... and as you are saying if he is still not happy, and I should be happy too,I called this UNFAIRNESS because i was here the whole time...

So please stay quite if you don't have enough knowledge... ??? ???

 

[bogazici10]

go re-apply again and it is enough is enough about this argument. He is a Citizenship judge and he is the boss.....

 

[neutral]

go re-apply again and it is enough is enough about this argument. He is a Citizenship judge and he is the boss.....

Not only re-apply .... a good advise would be to use this time the calculator as maths is not his strength.

 

[jhjeppe]

Thanks for guiding me to understand how the sysytem works. It sounds you are familiar with this matter ???, so could you please help me to understand why the judge was just asking me questions about this past 5 years and if I was in the country...

And at the end he told me there is one missing stamp on your passport and I will inquire from border and if you entered to Canada at that time "YOU ARE FINE AND I WOULD SEND YOU TO TAKE OATH...."

These are Aris Babikina words, so please try to explain what am I missing here....

Buddy....

OMG, you need to stop now... You are embarrassing yourself.
It is over, nothing left to do but reapply.

Judging by your broken English, it is most likely that you have misunderstood the Judge.

You keep on asking explanations from people, and the more we explain, the more questions you have!

 

[Ardi77]

Buddy....

OMG, you need to stop now... You are embarrassing yourself.
It is over, nothing left to do but reapply.

Judging by your broken English, it is most likely that you have misunderstood the Judge.

Wow, somebody can figure it out that english is not my first language (good job) and maybe because I am an immigrant here my english is broken so you can make fun of me...... Nice, be happy about it.


I have already re-applied. Not because I am happy with it, but because it is the only choice that i have which seems to be a fair play with the immigration office ...

 

[AUTO101]

Wow, somebody can figure it out that english is not my first language (good job) and maybe because I am an immigrant here my english is broken so you can make fun of me...... Nice, be happy about it.


I have already re-applied. Not because I am happy with it, but because it is the only choice that i have which seems to be a fair play with the immigration office ...

No one is making fun of your English but your constant desire that people will be sympathetic towards you. I am sorry it happened to you and I hope others will learn from your mistake.

Glad you have already applied. Good luck.

 

[Msafiri]

Became PR: Oct 2008
Citizenship Application: Nov 2010
4 years period:Nov 2007 - Nov 2010(Partly Student Visa)
Citizenship Test: March 2012 (Scarborough Centre)
Hearing with Aris Babikian: Oct 2014

I made my biggest mistake in my life and sent my citizenship application 58 days earlier, and now after 5 years Judge(Babikian) rejected my case.

During 2007-2010, I went to university in Canada and I was working in one of the canadian bank with all the paychecks available. After hearing, Babikian told me that everything is fine with my case and it is just one missing border stamp in my passport which he would inquire from the border control. He even asked for my police report 2 months ago and then after he received it, he declined my case.

He gave me the option either to apply again or apply for judicial review. I have been in Canada since Dec 2004 and I may have been out of country not more than 4 month during this time. I am so upset with this extreme unfairness of the system and I am asking for help from whoever has knowledge with this matter to help me if I should re-apply or apply for judicial review.


In advance, thanks for your help and respond.

1. Given that you have re-applied for citizenship under the post June 11, 2015 Citizenship Act (CA) a judicial review seems unnecessary and is moot if you are timed out under the legislative process to appeal.

2. Not enough detail in your application process vis a vis visa status (student/PR) dates, physical presence dates and absence dates in the relevant 4 year qualifying period (Nov 2006 - Nov 2010) to conclusively determine where you got a 58 shortfall in days. Suffice to say as has been explained that the pre June 11, 2015 CA (in force when you applied in Nov 2010) gave applicants with a shortfall the chance to appear before a Citizen Judge (CJ) to explain why their case was deserving of a pass on the 1095 days of actual physical presence.

3. The CJs work short hours each week and don't work every week of the year. They get sick, quit, go on vacation etc. There isn't a target for the CJs to meet. Divide the number of applicants waiting to see the CJ by the number of hours the CJ 'works' and waiting for several years to see the CJ is the norm (I'm disregarding the hours per file the CJ works as it may make the timelines even more depressing) . Add to these the increasing number of applicants (ever increasing PR numbers) from the lowering of the skilled class pass points and the same absurd policy that made CIC process any citizenship application where the applicant had PR status at day 1095 regardless of whether they had 1 day or 1095 days of physical presence (exempting say the Armed forces).

4. You don't say if you were fingerprinted or issued an RQ (and if so at what stage = at test, post test) and what the timelines were between RQ issuance or between RQ issuance and notification to see the CJ which all add delays to the process. It could be argued that you didn't wait 5 years - exclude the period from when the decision for you to see the CJ was made to the date the CJ made his decision as the actual wait period. That's how the courts would see it.

5. If you went for a JR your only chance of success is if it can be proven the CJ misapplied/incorrectly interpreted the residence test he chose. If it was the strict physical residence days test then you would have to prove that the missing stamp was irrelevant to the calculation. I'm puzzled though why he would bother with the stamp so much as you already stated you had a 58 days shortfall so why would he go to the trouble of using the strict physical residence? He may have been covering this angle off. If it wasn't to cover the angle of then it would make sense if he say went with the Koo residence test which on paper it seems you would get a citizenship grant and would indicate a misapplication of the Koo factors. If he did chose the strict residence test and clearly explained how you failed it which is easy then no dice and court will concur with his decision.

6. Re-applying for citizenship places the cards back into your hands. Going the JR route can leave you in a legal mire of may win or may lose. You'd also need to check timelines to a hearing, consider if to get legal representation (wont be cheap) and compare this against the current super fast citizenship processing times in the GTA.

Post citizenship acquisition you will like many on the forum have the opportunity to have your say at the ballot box. Many punish those who have aggrieved them in the immigration journey and reward those who they feel will do a better job.

Good luck