After 5 Years...Rejected!!!!!

[Ardi77]

Became PR: Oct 2008
Citizenship Application: Nov 2010
4 years period:Nov 2007 - Nov 2010(Partly Student Visa)
Citizenship Test: March 2012 (Scarborough Centre)
Hearing with Aris Babikian: Oct 2014

I made my biggest mistake in my life and sent my citizenship application 58 days earlier, and now after 5 years Judge(Babikian) rejected my case.

During 2007-2010, I went to university in Canada and I was working in one of the canadian bank with all the paychecks available. After hearing, Babikian told me that everything is fine with my case and it is just one missing border stamp in my passport which he would inquire from the border control. He even asked for my police report 2 months ago and then after he received it, he declined my case.

He gave me the option either to apply again or apply for judicial review. I have been in Canada since Dec 2004 and I may have been out of country not more than 4 month during this time. I am so upset with this extreme unfairness of the system and I am asking for help from whoever has knowledge with this matter to help me if I should re-apply or apply for judicial review.


In advance, thanks for your help and respond.

 

[TomTony]

I'm very sorry to hear about your story, it's really hard to believe that they have rejected your application.
I think it's better to send a new application if the wait time for judicial review is long.

I wish you a good luck.

 

[jeune]

I'm waiting my test but the problem I lost my passport with stamps and I got RQ last year , I applied 2 years ago. I'm so sorry to hear that . I advice you to get a lawyer and to review your case

 

[jeune]

hello every one, I'm very glad to write in this topic and participate in this topic because I need some advices if you could help me
first of all , I'm permanent resident of Canada , I landed in Canada in June 2010 , I stayed living in Montreal till august 2011 after that I went visit my family at my back home country it was a vacation for 45 days , I came back to Canada in September 2011 and moved to Calgary , I 'm still living in Calgary . I applied for my citizenship from Calgary in September 2013 . after that I went to visit my family at my home country, it was in October 2013 . I stayed in my home country till march 2014 it was long visit because my mom was sick. unfortunately , during my last visit to my country I lost all of my documents including my PR card , my social insurance number , my master card , my debit card , my Canadian driving license , my passport , my medical card and some other documents. I went to the police station in my country and I got a report that I lost all of my documents that was in February 2014, I applied for travel document to come back to Canada and I got it in march 2014, so I have now new passport of my country it is issued in February 2014 and I was lucky to come back to Canada in march 2014. when I came to Canada they sent me Rq in march 2014 and I filled it out and sent it to Cic in April 2014 , they needed it maximum 1 month to send it. but they need my old passport with stamps that I lost it but I sent with Rq some support document like police report from my home country, my medical report , my flights tickets, my study course record , taxes assessment and some other documents. my time line is application sent September 2013 , started processing January 2014 , Rq received march 2014 , Rq sent April 2014 . I'm now 21 month ago when I applied , I called Cic and they told me that I'm non routine application 36 month. I got cbsa report 2 month ago and some other documents to proof my residence in Canada from June 2010 till September 2013, I got some other documents from airlines company , my travel record from home country and I will send all of these document to support my file.
I would like to ask some questions
1 - lost of passport can affect my file and get refuse ? I tried to get all of documents to verify and prove my residence in Canada and I'm honest and truthful

2- I will be 36 month non routine application in September 2016 till this time I think I will meet with the Calgary judge but if I will pass the exam and the judge doesn't accept all of this proof and he refused my application what procedure can I take , I just expect the worst scenario?
3 proof like ( police report from my country , air line tickets , cbsa report, medical record , taxes report, study record, travel record from my home country, t4 , t5,lease of rent, bank statement , credit statements) all of these documents are not enough to convince cic officer or agent and the judge?
4- what I could do in case of the judge will refuse my application ? I should apply with the new law after 4 years?
I will be glad if you will answer me and give me some advices , I'm very patient and very glad to see your replies
kind regards

 

[on-hold]

Became PR: Oct 2008
Citizenship Application: Nov 2010
4 years period:Nov 2007 - Nov 2010(Partly Student Visa)
Citizenship Test: March 2012 (Scarborough Centre)
Hearing with Aris Babikian: Oct 2014

I made my biggest mistake in my life and sent my citizenship application 58 days earlier, and now after 5 years Judge(Babikian) rejected my case.

During 2007-2010, I went to university in Canada and I was working in one of the canadian bank with all the paychecks available. After hearing, Babikian told me that everything is fine with my case and it is just one missing border stamp in my passport which he would inquire from the border control. He even asked for my police report 2 months ago and then after he received it, he declined my case.

He gave me the option either to apply again or apply for judicial review. I have been in Canada since Dec 2004 and I may have been out of country not more than 4 month during this time. I am so upset with this extreme unfairness of the system and I am asking for help from whoever has knowledge with this matter to help me if I should re-apply or apply for judicial review.


In advance, thanks for your help and respond.

Ardi, I'm sorry to hear about this result, but I'm glad that you posted it. One of the odd arguments that crops up here fairly frequently is someone who wants to apply without the requisite number of days, and argues that it will simply go to a citizenship judge. Your case -- a long history in Canada, with both working and studying -- is a good counterpoint to that 'option'.

If I may ask, why did you not wait two more months to apply?

 

[on-hold]

And for jeune, personally, I would look at it like this. If you have:

- study record
- tax record
- employment record that matches the tax record
- medical records
- leases and associated contracts

And nothing in your CBSA contradicts them, why wouldn't you be fine? Look on your hearing as your chance to prove definitively that you live in Canada, and don't go in assuming that they want to reject you.

 

[scylla]

I made my biggest mistake in my life and sent my citizenship application 58 days earlier, and now after 5 years Judge(Babikian) rejected my case.

Agreed that you made a huge mistake by applying early - it makes sense your application was refused since you didn't qualify to apply. I wouldn't waste more time and money on a judicial review. Just reapply (assuming you qualify under the new rules). Not sure why you think the system is unfair - you applied before you qualified and tried to jump the queue.

 

[screech339]

I'm very sorry to hear about your story, it's really hard to believe that they have rejected your application.
I think it's better to send a new application if the wait time for judicial review is long.

I wish you a good luck.

Why would it be be hard to believe. The OP applied 2 months short of the 1095 day requirement. It is obvious that OP didn't qualify when he/she applied.

 

[Ardi77]

Agreed that you made a huge mistake by applying early - it makes sense your application was refused since you didn't qualify to apply. I wouldn't waste more time and money on a judicial review. Just reapply (assuming you qualify under the new rules). Not sure why you think the system is unfair - you applied before you qualified and tried to jump the queue.

The reason that I applied earlier it was just because of miscalculation of number of days...

Please help me to see the fairness and rational for this system that they accepted my application even though it was 58 days short, and they told me the judge would decide if you are eligible. For the sake of the argument lets assume that I am not lying and I stayed in the country for the whole time after that period, now after 5 years they got back to me that I shouldn't applied at the first place since I was 56 days short ...

Would it be more fair and rational if they would send me home and tell me to come back in 56 days and then apply not after 5 years....

 

[screech339]

The reason that I applied earlier it was just because of miscalculation of number of days...

Please help me to see the fairness and rational for this system that they accepted my application even though it was 58 days short, and they told me the judge would decide if you are eligible. For the sake of the argument lets assume that I am not lying and I stayed in the country for the whole time after that period, now after 5 years they got back to me that I shouldn't applied at the first place since I am 56 days short ...

Would it be more fair and rational if they would send me home and tell me come back in 56 days and then applied not after 5 years....

You admitted to applying early. That means you applied when you didn't meet the 1095 day requirement.

I can understand 5-7 days due to a miscalculation, but 58 days? That's not a miscalculation.

 

[Ardi77]

You admitted to applying early. That means you applied when you didn't meet the 1095 day requirement.

I can understand 5-7 days due to a miscalculation, but 58 days? That's not a miscalculation.

So we accept that there was no chance for me to be eligible for the citizenship even though the judge told me that your case is fine.....

What is the whole point of seeing a judge? to tell me what you are saying to me after 5 years?
My assumption is the judge hearing has been there for some reason......I am not saying that they should give me tho citizenship, all I am saying is where is the fairness for the ppl who are not as smart as the other ones and make mistakes. Even if I made that mistake by purpose, do you think it is fair for me to be punished for 5 years?

 

[screech339]

So we accept that there was no chance for me to be eligible for the citizenship even though the judge told me that your case is fine.....

What is the whole point of seeing a judge? to tell me what you are saying to me after 5 years?
My assumption is the judge hearing has been there for some reason......I am not saying that they should give me tho citizenship, all I am saying is where is the fairness for the ppl who are not as smart as the other ones and make mistakes. Even if I made that mistake by purpose, do you think it is fair for me to be punished for 5 years?

I understand the point of having a judge. But lately the judges have been pressured to apply the actual physical presence test from the government.

The government has been complaining that the judges are been too subjective and the results are not consistent across all judges. You could have had another applicant in exact same position as you and got citizenship and you didn't? That is not fair.

The judges are being told to apply the APP test to be consistent and fair to everyone.

I can understand going to a judge when you thought you meet the 1095 day requirement and after CIC found some miscalculation and you ended up short 1-3 days of 1095. That I can understand going to the judge for. You can make a better case convincing judge you made an honest mistake and you never intended to apply early. In your case, you on purposely applied 58 days short of 1095. You knew you were short. Big difference. And you want the judge to give you citizenship because you applied early on purpose?

Since you waited 5 years so far, you obviously can apply again under the new 4/6 rule.

 

[scylla]

It's part of CIC's process to allow those who do not meet the residency requirement to appear before a judge to argue their case. Unfortunately based on what we've seen here, it's extremely rare that exceptions are granted (even for those who are only a few days short). And there's really no way for CIC to judge if you made the mistake in error or on purpose - so all applications without sufficient days are treated the same.

Agreed that CIC would be better off telling people to just reapply - however the process hasn't been designed this way. It's too bad you didn't find this forum years ago. We would have told you to withdraw your application and reapply.

Anyway - hopefully you qualify to apply now. Good luck.

 

[Ardi77]

I understand the point of having a judge. But lately the judges have been pressured to apply the actual physical presence test from the government.

The government has been complaining that the judges are been too subjective and the results are not consistent across all judges. You could have had another applicant in exact same position as you and got citizenship and you didn't? That is not fair.

The judges are being told to apply the APP test to be consistent and fair to everyone.

I can understand going to a judge when you thought you meet the 1095 day requirement and after CIC found some miscalculation and you ended up short 1-3 days of 1095. That I can understand going to the judge for. You can make a better case convincing judge you made an honest mistake and you never intended to apply early. In your case, you on purposely applied 58 days short of 1095. You knew you were short. Big difference. And you want the judge to give you citizenship because you applied early on purpose?

Since you waited 5 years so far, you obviously can apply again under the new 4/6 rule.

I said "even" if I made mistake by purpose. I am not sure about you, but if one day I want to cheat or lie I would make sure that my counterpart does not have all the information that I have. and it is not easy to find out...

In this case that it is really easy for the other party to figure out my supposedly cheating action, it wouldn't be really smart to cheat or lie ???.... If now you are not accusing me to be a stupid cheater....

 

[Ardi77]

It's part of CIC's process to allow those who do not meet the residency requirement to appear before a judge to argue their case. Unfortunately based on what we've seen here, it's extremely rare that exceptions are granted (even for those who are only a few days short). And there's really no way for CIC to judge if you made the mistake in error or on purpose - so all applications without sufficient days are treated the same.

Agreed that CIC would be better off telling people to just reapply - however the process hasn't been designed this way. It's too bad you didn't find this forum years ago. We would have told you to withdraw your application and reapply.

Anyway - hopefully you qualify to apply now. Good luck.

Thanks for your help, I wish I was aware of this forum long time ago.....Actually I asked couple of time from CIC call centre if I should withdraw and apply again, and unfortunatelly they tole me if I do I would be going through the same process again...


I came to Canada from my home country because ppl wouldn't be respected or heard by the government... I came to Canada because I taught they would treat me based on respect and fairness.... I guess I wasn't thinking straight to some extent...