Advice please-1095 rule and tracking your time in Canada-help?

[kelly]

Hi All,
as I'm accumulating days in Canada I realized that often when I crossed the border no one stamped my passport, not by land or air, so while I keep track of my time outside of Canada I would like to confirm the dates that the authorities have with the dates that I have (after all I might remember crossing on the 5th for example, while they might have me as crossing the border into Canada on the 6th since the clock hit midnight...this might sound silly to some but who wants to be denied just beacuase of one day?) so here's the question:
Is there a way to find out what the authorities have listed for our time out of Canada?
When you submit the citizenship application do the authorities compare their time calculations of your presence to what you submit? In other words, is there a way for us to find out what is the number of days they have listed for us so we know if it matches our calculation? After all if the numbers don't match the application won't be approved and we'll have to start from the beginning so if there was a way to know all this beforehand one can be prepared.
After all, wouldn't you assume they keep track of your time so that they know that what you submit on the application is correct? They have got to keep record themselves otherwise how would they know what is real and what is not?
And while some might say make sure you ask them to stamp your passport in most countries it is automatic and a rule that they stamp your passport so newcomers can’t know that in Canada things are different.
Thank you in advance for your advice and assistance.
Kelly

 

[toby]

This is an excellent question, and I hope you get a firm answer based on experience.

WHen you mention 1095 days, that is the minimum for applying for citizenship, whereas the quota for maintaining permanent residence is 730 days every five years.

I don't know of any way to prove the days you spend in Canada -- short of taking a photo of you every day with that day's newspaper in your hands. I doubt the authorities keep that information, or else why would they ask you for proof?

And you're right: border control officers don't stamp passports. So, it's not good proof to get the border officer to stamp your entry into Canada, because you could then take a side trip out and NOT get exit/entry stamps. So, your passport is not good proof.

Another proof is a bank statement showing transactions each day. An ATM withdrawal is good evidence, since it shows the location (in Canada) of the transaction, but many other bank transactions can be done by Internet from outside Canada. So, ATM slips yes; bank statements no.

Save any receipts showing your name, location of the service in Canada, and the date.

Pay cheque stubs would show that you were on the job for all but the weeks allotted for vacation.

While you may not be able to show proof of each and every day, if you can If you get a dated receipt showing a service done for you in Canada, save that.

That might satisfy Canada.

 

[qorax]

Toby,

It still seems quite vague. I don't yet get it. Say I've Rented a House (have the lease agreement to prove), get my Utility Bills every month, pay it every month too (vide preauthorized bank transactions), the Toronto Star Newaper Quarterly Receipt (has my name on it), Purchased a Car, File the Yearly Tax Returns, ditto for everything else.

I do keep some of the local bills/invoice of purchases viz. Gas, Walmart Bills, Shopping Bills etc. But none of them would have my name on it. And I wouldn't be purchasing something everyday, so pretty much 1095 bills wouldn't be available, however could save around 4-500 of them.

Now, in the next 3yrs I do go on short Vacations of 1-2 months every yr. There's no Immigr Stamp though on the pps. So, the moment I complete the 3yrs I file for Citizenship. I dont declare those 1-2 months a yr. Vacation absences. How do Govt of Canada ensure/check that I really resided here for all the 1095 days, in the 3yr period itself?

Where's the accountability?

Appreciate your advice/opinions.

Qorax

 

[toby]

Toby,

It still seems quite vague. I don't yet get it. Say I've Rented a House (have the lease agreement to prove), get my Utility Bills every month, pay it every month too (vide preauthorized bank transactions), the Toronto Star Newaper Quarterly Receipt (has my name on it), Purchased a Car, File the Yearly Tax Returns, ditto for everything else.

I'd call those secondary proofs that you were in Canada, Quorax. They strongly suggest you were in Canada, but don't prove it conclusively. You could rent an apartment then leave the country, paying for utilities by pre-authorized bank debits, having someone clear away the newspapers to avoid the impression that you were absent etc etc. The conclusive proof I want is to be prepared in case I met a difficult, skeptical officer. I don't know, but I imagine they can be as difficult as they feel like being, and we have little recourse.


I do keep some of the local bills/invoice of purchases viz. Gas, Walmart Bills, Shopping Bills etc. But none of them would have my name on it. And I wouldn't be purchasing something everyday, so pretty much 1095 bills wouldn't be available, however could save around 4-500 of them.

I know, but maybe you could ask a store to put your name on the invoice, knowing that this would be strong proof? Absent a proof that shows your name, the place, and the date, I'd probably take the precaution of taking a weekly photo of myself with the day's newspaper in hand, in front of a recognizable landmark in Canada, to prove I was in Canada on that day. Doing it once a week would be a pain, but what other option is there?


Now, in the next 3yrs I do go on short Vacations of 1-2 months every yr. There's no Immigr Stamp though on the pps. So, the moment I complete the 3yrs I file for Citizenship. I dont declare those 1-2 months a yr. Vacation absences. How do Govt of Canada ensure/check that I really resided here for all the 1095 days, in the 3yr period itself?

I believe that vacations don't subtract from the days spent in Canada. But 1-2 months might be excessive, and don't assume that Canada does not keep track. They might very well retain records when your passport is scanned in and out of Canada. I'd not take the risk of applying for citizenship prematurely.

But surely someone has actually renewed their PR, and can tell us what proofs they supplied?



Where's the accountability?

Appreciate your advice/opinions.

Qorax

 

[qorax]

Thanks Toby,

But do they actually scan our pps on exit/entry from the country?

Qorax

I believe that vacations don't subtract from the days spent in Canada. But 1-2 months might be excessive, and don't assume that Canada does not keep track. They might very well retain records when your passport is scanned in and out of Canada. I'd not take the risk of applying for citizenship prematurely.

 

[toby]

I believe they do, Quorax. At least I see them scanning mine, and my passport is Canadian.

Permanent residents: does Canada scan your (foreign) passports too?

 

[kelly]

Hi Toby,
Thanks for the reply. I was talking specifically about the 1095 days rule. I was hoping someone with expert knowledge would help us all and tell how this really works. I think there has got to be a way that the government keeps track of comings and goings otherwise how would they know applications were really true?? I was hoping there was a way for us to verify this before we apply so we can make sure we didn't miss a day or two or more. I find it hard to believe that the government doesn't keep track and no one knows how our time is being tracked.
one note though there was a comment in one of the threads here that vacations don't get subtract from time spent in Canada and that is not entirely true-any time spent outside of canada is subtracted from the total physical presence count, so if you spent a week or in the example below 2 months outside of canada on vacation that time has to be reported and will lengthen the time you can apply for citizenship.

Anyway, hoping someone can share some expert feedback on this, how is our time being tracked for the purpose of fulfilling the 1095 rule, and can we get that count info so we can verify what we submit is matching what the government submits to the office that approves our application.
Thanks in advance

 

[Sisifo]

In NZ , passports / pr visas are machine readable and is scanned at entry and exit to NZ. So even though your passport is not stamped , the immigration server has an accurate record of when you left and when you reentered the country. I would assume that Canada follows suit with something similar.

 

[qorax]

In the b/mentioned thread, a member (landed PR) left Canada w/out anyone stamping, or scanning, his/her Pps.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/qorax-your-opinion-sought-t46627.0.html;msg339847#msg339847

 

[Sisifo]

In NZ this is done by the airline checkin staff at the time of checkin when leaving NZ. When they check you in , they swipe your passport so that even though you think you dont "clear" immigration you just have. Do note that this applies to citizens and PRs not to those there on visitors visa.

 

[Leon]

I think that they have far less information than you all believe. The airline checks that you have your passport when you are leaving, that is true. If the airline didn't do that, they would be held liable when you arrive in whatever country you are going to with no passport. I do not think that immigration has access to the airlines information.

Immigration will usually scan your passport and PR card when you arrive by plane. Always happened to me anyway. They will ask you how long you were gone and what you were doing and they will also take your little customs form where you listed how long you were supposedly gone. They may well enter how long you said you were gone into their computers for their reference. If you are arriving or leaving by car, you might just be waived through and nobody will register anything about your comings and goings.

They do work with some other border agencies such as the US border so they do have access to the US border information.

Then comes the time that you apply to renew your PR card or apply for citizenship. You list all your absences. I do not even know if they will check each application or how thoroughly. Maybe they only check half or one in five or even one in 10. They might then compare your dates to the dates they have. You say you went on vacation to the US for 2 weeks. You had gone by car. They may have no record of that. You say you went on vacation to Paris for 2 weeks, they have your arrival date closely matching to what you said it was, they might not have your leaving date. You have listed your addresses where you've been living in Canada and where you've worked. They may have other ways of verifying that. Access to tax information, who knows. If you said you worked for company X for 2 years and lived on B street in C town just before you went on your 2 week vacation where they don't have the date you left and they have no record of you at this address or working for that company, then they might decide that you could be asked to prove that what you say is true.

Now, the reason I think that is so is because there seem to be a number of PR's who get into Canada again even though they haven't met the residency requirements. If CIC had instant access to scanned information about everybodys passport and PR, they would have a red flag popping up when this person wants to enter and they would take proceedings to revoke their PR status. I have also heard of people fudging the dates for their citizenship applications and getting away with it. The only people who I've heard of getting in trouble seem to be the ones who are honest and admit to not having met the residency requirements as they apply. Oh, there was also one here who had a lot of business trips for his own business that he claimed to have explained on his application, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. His PR renewal application went through, he went to pick up his new card and the immigration official asked to see his passport. Upon seeing all the stamps in it, the official decided to withhold the new PR card and have him provide further proof of meeting the residency requirements.

I applied for a new PR card once and I applied for citizenship once. I did not provide any proof of my living in Canada when I said I did. I just filled out the forms. I put the dates down according to memory. Some of them I had to contemplate. Nobody contacted me to complain about my dates. No questions asked.

If you did end up in the situation that you had to prove your time in Canada, it would be really helpful to keep flight tickets and boarding cards. You can keep visa card receipts and ATM receipts to show your whereabouts too. Payslips to show hours worked. Assuming you worked 40 hours a week, you were probably in Canada most of that week. You could ask your doctor and dentist to write a letter stating on what days you had appointments because you were more than likely in Canada on those days and doctors and dentists are figures of respect and are believed a bit more than the average joe.

Like Toby says, there might be no better proof than taking a photo of yourself with todays paper in front of a Canada landmark but photo's can be altered as well. I don't think immigration would go that far. I think it's a lot of worrying going on around here over something that isn't really that likely to happen. You are all assuming that you will have the Spanish inquisition over your PR renewals and citizenship applications when there is really no reason to think that.

As for citizenship requirements and vacations, yes, vacations do count. You need 1095 days in Canada before you apply. A day on vacation outside Canada is not a day in Canada. In spite of that, you can apply and let a judge decide if you are worthy of citizenship without the required number of days but from what I've heard, those applications take so long that you probably would have gotten your citizenship already if you'd waited to make up the days while you are still waiting to see the judge.

As for CIC giving you the information they have so you can compare your dates to theirs, I think you can forget that. They will not tell you what they know because if they did, people who are planning on fudging their dates will know exactly which dates to fudge.

 

[qorax]

Thanx Leon. I got that.
[Well written & explained]

So, things r quite vague in fact. And a few days here-n-there might not effect our Citizenship apps. I said might, in reality it's always good to go a bit beyond the 1095 before applying, I understand that.

Now the question is, if they only scan (& of course take the Disembarkation Card) while entering an A/port, is it so that they do not see/check anything while leaving? And if that's the case, we can always stay out of Canada for [say] 1 month, & claim that we were out only for a week. I guess that liberty everyone takes or could take, right?

Appreciate your input.

Qorax

 

[Leon]

Regarding the 1 month/1 week vacation, you could do that but you don't know what they know. Maybe your application is the one they decide to pull for the fine tooth comb and they look up the US border information and see that you arrived in the US 3 weeks earlier than you said you did. I do not know what kind of trouble that would get you, maybe just a refused application and you could apply later, maybe something more. I have a feeling immigration doesn't like it when you lie to them. They might decide to lose your next application behind a file cabinet for a year or so

I told the complete truth on my application. If you think it's worth lying just to apply 3 weeks earlier, I guess that's your choice and your risk to take.

 

[qorax]

Perfect. Lying is not the forte anyway. And yes, anyone could be picked for the grilling! Who'd take that chance after all the wait, sweat, time, effort & money?

Was just pondering...