The fact your PR card is expiring in Nov 2016 likely won't have any impact on the chances the TRVs will be issued for your children. You just have to apply and hope for the best. And if they are refused, then try TRPs.
Advice me a wicked plan please
- Thread starter Canadababy
- Start date
If you want to save your PR's, you should make sure that either you or your wife returns to Canada in time to meet the residency obligation, regardless of your children getting a visa. Worst case, if one of you gets UK citizenship and the other keeps the PR, the one with citizenship can always sponsor the other back to the UK and the one with PR can always sponsor the other for PR again.
1. Desperate people make bad decisions - so you want to send your family to Canada with the mother going for inland sponsorship which means your kids will have no medical cover other than any other private insurance until they are approved in principle. Have you looked at insurance costs?
2. Forget about your PR Card expiry date which it seems is giving you a false sense of security - CIC will check on your actual number of physical in Canada days when the sponsorship file lands on their desk. You need 730 days or be able to get to 730 within the first 5 year rolling period post landing.
3. Chances of getting TRV for the kids are minimal.
4. You need to think about what your actual Canadian plan is - are you wanting to settle in Canada? Or are you wanting to not lose the PR with an eventual application for Citizenship with approval some time on or around 2019/2020? If the reasons that made you go back still exist how do you think it will work out now you have family? Can you get the same employment in Canada as you have in the UK? Are you ready to start from a potentially survival job situation?
(edit - #3 corrected as kids are not visitor visa exempt).
2. Forget about your PR Card expiry date which it seems is giving you a false sense of security - CIC will check on your actual number of physical in Canada days when the sponsorship file lands on their desk. You need 730 days or be able to get to 730 within the first 5 year rolling period post landing.
3. Chances of getting TRV for the kids are minimal.
4. You need to think about what your actual Canadian plan is - are you wanting to settle in Canada? Or are you wanting to not lose the PR with an eventual application for Citizenship with approval some time on or around 2019/2020? If the reasons that made you go back still exist how do you think it will work out now you have family? Can you get the same employment in Canada as you have in the UK? Are you ready to start from a potentially survival job situation?
(edit - #3 corrected as kids are not visitor visa exempt).
I'm not sure that the children are British citizens... We don't have automatic citizenship for children born on British soil.
If the OP sends his family to Canada before he becomes a citizen, wouldn't that complicate the naturalization process? The UK immigration may use the fact that his wife and kids are already outside of the country as a proof that he does not intend to reside in the UK after becoming a citizen?
Affirmative, as well as the fact that he is a Canadian PR... This is why I keep highlighting this item of legislation.meyakanor said:
Unlike Canada, it would be very easy for the UK government to verify whether his wife and kids are physically present in the UK (exit checks and all). If they find out that his wife and kids have been away for a significant period of time (implying resident in another country, in this case, Canada), they may decide to investigate him on his intent to reside in the UK, delaying the naturalization process.zardoz said:
He would not be able to just say, 'I'm waiting to become a citizen, so I can move to settle in Canada to preserve my Canadian permanent residency status'. That would be contrary with the required intent to reside in the United Kingdom for naturalized British citizens. And even if they somehow grant him citizenship, they may, after, say, 10 years, look back and find that he has immediately left the UK after becoming a citizen, and at the time, his family has already been in Canada. This could easily be seen as a misrepresentation and a ground for revocation. The UK has been known to revoke citizenship just based on suspicion (not conviction) of terrorist acts, I wouldn't put it past them if their standard for revocation would be much lower for suspected fraud as well...
The safest way (IMO), I think, would be to wait in the UK with his whole family until they all become UK citizens, then try to settle in Canada maybe a couple of years down the road (as not to be seen to abandon the intent to reside in the UK immediately); though his Canadian PR status would no longer be in compliance with RO. I think he will have to choose in the end either to become a UK citizen (but risk losing Canadian PR status), or preserve his Canadian PR (but jeopardize his naturalization in the UK).
It would seem the first answer by Steaky is best from a UK naturalization route - naturalize and attempt Canada re-entry without report. The other end of the spectrum is Canada re-entry now with risks to the UK naturalization. Depends on the OPs appetite for risk but the UK naturalization is closer to realization and was the very reason for the RO breach.
Guys so does it mean we are going to lose the chance of settling in Canada
Because due to the following:
1- Me & Mrs PR expiring November 2016, to save PR I need to send mrs Canada before November 2014 at least, but kids cant get TRV from uk (as you said its quite impossible)…so obviously mrs cant go Canada on her own without babies….so this plan is a NO GO
2- Also if kids passports gets rejection of TRVs TRPs it may jeopardise their UK naturalization process
3- Our whole family sit tight in the UK till we get UK passport, than go to Canada showing visa exempt passport than live there 2 years and re-apply for PR renewal, but this plan is only for me and mrs what would be the status of kids while living in Canada? Would they be an overstaying visitors how would they get medical or school etc etc if they have no PRs, …so this plan is a NO GO
4- Should I re-apply the immigration, after getting UK passports?….as all our extended families are there..sooner or later we have to settle there
Please correct me if there is any option
Because due to the following:
1- Me & Mrs PR expiring November 2016, to save PR I need to send mrs Canada before November 2014 at least, but kids cant get TRV from uk (as you said its quite impossible)…so obviously mrs cant go Canada on her own without babies….so this plan is a NO GO
2- Also if kids passports gets rejection of TRVs TRPs it may jeopardise their UK naturalization process
3- Our whole family sit tight in the UK till we get UK passport, than go to Canada showing visa exempt passport than live there 2 years and re-apply for PR renewal, but this plan is only for me and mrs what would be the status of kids while living in Canada? Would they be an overstaying visitors how would they get medical or school etc etc if they have no PRs, …so this plan is a NO GO
4- Should I re-apply the immigration, after getting UK passports?….as all our extended families are there..sooner or later we have to settle there
Please correct me if there is any option
Don't be so pessimistic! If read the link below under AHCIP eligibility while waiting for permanent residency status (assuming you are moving to Alberta), it said if your children got their letter from CIC indicating a "positive first decision" has been made regarding the application for permanent residency, they would be eligible for AHCIP coverage. That means your children will only need to buy visitor's travel insurance temporary until they get their AHCIP.Canadababy said:3- Our whole family sit tight in the UK till we get UK passport, than go to Canada showing visa exempt passport than live there 2 years and re-apply for PR renewal, but this plan is only for me and mrs what would be the status of kids while living in Canada? Would they be an overstaying visitors how would they get medical or school etc etc if they have no PRs, ...so this plan is a NO GO
http://www.health.alberta.ca/AHCIP/temporary-residents.html
With regards to school, you can explore any possibilities of home schooling opportunities while they wait for PR?
Alternatively, couldn't after whole family got UK passport, MR return to Alberta, Canada alone and sit tight for two years, then MRS continue living in UK with children and visit MR occasionally? Children can continue their schooling and health benefits in UK. By the end of the two years, MRS bring children to reunite with MR in Alberta and MR initiate sponsoring the children for PR.
If you are planning on settling in Canada anyway, why is it so important for you to get the UK passport?
If you manage to arrive as a family with your kids on your visa exempt passports without the IO finding out that you are a PR and questioning you about your PR status, you face a couple of potential problems.
If your PR card is by then already expired, you may have problems getting a drivers license, getting health care etc. depending on the province.
Your kids will not have PR and you would have problems getting health care for them. Some provinces may however extend health care to them based on that they are your children but usually only happens if you are sponsoring them which you can't do right away as you don't meet the RO. This could be solved by paying out of pocket for routine visits and having an emergency/accident insurance just in case.
The school may or may not let them enroll. As the children are not PR, the school is actually supposed to refuse to enroll them without a study permit and then you would have to pay tuition but sometimes they do that and sometimes they don't. You could work around that by having the children go to private school which is also expensive or have your wife home school them if she is not working.
If you manage to arrive as a family with your kids on your visa exempt passports without the IO finding out that you are a PR and questioning you about your PR status, you face a couple of potential problems.
If your PR card is by then already expired, you may have problems getting a drivers license, getting health care etc. depending on the province.
Your kids will not have PR and you would have problems getting health care for them. Some provinces may however extend health care to them based on that they are your children but usually only happens if you are sponsoring them which you can't do right away as you don't meet the RO. This could be solved by paying out of pocket for routine visits and having an emergency/accident insurance just in case.
The school may or may not let them enroll. As the children are not PR, the school is actually supposed to refuse to enroll them without a study permit and then you would have to pay tuition but sometimes they do that and sometimes they don't. You could work around that by having the children go to private school which is also expensive or have your wife home school them if she is not working.
@Leon My PR would still have few months validity left if I go after collecting my UK passport...I can exchange my UK license with Canada license?
@Steaky thanks..but would be impossible to stay away from kids for 2 years
2- Whole family sit tight until we get UK passport and than go Canada, by that time I would still have valid PR & SIN cards, so finding a job wouldn’t be a problem, only trouble would be private healthcare and schooling for kids, which can be sorted private
3- re-applying immigration.
What you reckon guys?
Thanks for all your time, much appreciated.
@Steaky thanks..but would be impossible to stay away from kids for 2 years
1- Apply kids TRV [if successful] send Mrs and kids along before November 2014, once landed than MRS apply kids PR, health cards etc etc and resumes a normal life there. Meanwhile I re-unite with family after few months when I have my UK passport sorted.
2- Whole family sit tight until we get UK passport and than go Canada, by that time I would still have valid PR & SIN cards, so finding a job wouldn’t be a problem, only trouble would be private healthcare and schooling for kids, which can be sorted private
3- re-applying immigration.
What you reckon guys?
Thanks for all your time, much appreciated.
Yes, you can exchange a UK license for a Canadian license.Canadababy said:
1. It's an option but as explained to you, the UK may not let you keep the UK passport if they find that your family has moved to Canada and that you have no intention of staying in the UK either.
2. Also keep in mind that with this option, you could be reported on entry for not meeting the residency requirements which would put a kink in your plans. However, you would have to see if that happens and deal with it then.
3. You can only apply for a new PR if you qualify under the current rules which may not be the same as when you applied originally. Further, you must have lost your current PR in order to apply again. There is however no reason to renounce your PR while you still meet the RO.
If you take option 1, you would not have to renounce your PR. If you take option 2 and get reported, as you have no humane and compassionate grounds for not meeting the RO, appealing for your PR would just buy some time but probably not a good result. You could stay in Canada while you wait but in the end, you would most likely lose and be asked to leave. You would still have the option to apply again in that case but it would give you a gap where you have to leave Canada and wait for your new application to get processed.
If you do not pick option 1, option 3 may be preferable to option 2 if you qualify. You could look into if you still qualify to apply shortly before you want to go back, then renounce your old PR and apply for a new one for the whole family. You would however have to stay away while you wait for processing of your new application. If you no longer qualify to apply, you could try option 2.