Advice me a wicked plan please

[Canadababy]

Hi All,

Me and my wife applied for Canadian Immigration, did the first landing, collected the PR cards, and than went back to UK to resume our jobs thinking we will return back to Canada when we are more financially stable to afford being jobless for few months incase we don’t find a job in Canada at the beginning.

When we came back to the UK, we were just a young couple but over the time we have been blessed with three babies , so in a nut shell we couldn’t return to Canada as per the original plan. Meanwhile I also worked for a Canadian company in UK but I guess it doesn’t full fill the criteria for RO.

Now in next few months I will be eligible and getting the British passport for me and my family, By that time I would still have few months left in my Canadian PR card expiry. Now I have 3 path ways to finally go back to Canada

1- Get travel document for my kids from UK, and go back to Canada HOPING IO will be a nice person at the airport wont say a word about me and my mrs absence from Canada not fulfilling the RO…and IO will just let us in

2- I don’t show my native passport or my kids travel document, rather JUST show IO my fresh new British passport and enter pretending as a visitor, and don’t exit Canada until two years to meet the RO and renewal of PR.

3- This is the toughest and a scary option, I just send my mrs and tiny little babies to Canada now, so my mrs can save her PR and later on I can come to Canada once I have my British passport settled...Even if IO raises any objection I can say my family already living in Canada and meeting all RO, so please on compassionate grounds let me in....otherwise sooner or later my mrs can sponsor me once she gets Canadian citizenship? (Personally I would hate to do that staying away from kids n wife and cant do it but just mentioning here as it is one of the options )

4- I am open to suggestions if there is an other option.

All experienced moderators or anyone been through same phase please guide me through

what is the safest option?
what are the risks?
Is there any other hidden hurdles?
Any legal complication in terms of law of being British over staying in Canada as a visitor?
Any offence of pretending visitor and not showing my PR even though I am hiding it in my wallet ?

All your suggestion would be greatly appreciated, I really want to settle in Canada with my extended family there.
Please please please share your thoughts

Cheers.

 

[steaky]

I suggest you wait until your entire family get the British passport and then use that passport to enter Canada without showing your (then) expired PR card. Once you and/or wife are in Canada, wait 2 years and then sponsor your children for PR.

Since the children are not yet PR (they need to be sponsored), they won't be eligible for getting travel document. Don't try to apply a travel document for yourself and wife, which can result loss of PR status.

BTW, what compassionate grounds are you talking about? Couldn't find a job in Canada is not a valid reason of not fulfilling residency obligation..

 

[Canadababy]

Hi Steaky,

Thanks for your response.

If you advising plan-2 which is for getting British passport than travel, even by that time my PR would still have few months remaining in expiry, so should I show my PR to IO or rather just act as a visitor coming to Canada first time?
Is there any risk in this? or any legal complication?

 

[zardoz]

Are you applying for naturalisation as a British citizen under British Nationality Act 1981 - Section 6(1)?

If so, you might want to check http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61 SCHEDULE 1 - Section 1(1)(d).

 

[Msafiri]

....

1- Get travel document for my kids from UK, and go back to Canada HOPING IO will be a nice person at the airport wont say a word about me and my mrs absence from Canada not fulfilling the RO...and IO will just let us in

2- I don't show my native passport or my kids travel document, rather JUST show IO my fresh new British passport and enter pretending as a visitor, and don't exit Canada until two years to meet the RO and renewal of PR.

3- This is the toughest and a scary option, I just send my mrs and tiny little babies to Canada now, so my mrs can save her PR and later on I can come to Canada once I have my British passport settled...Even if IO raises any objection I can say my family already living in Canada and meeting all RO, so please on compassionate grounds let me in....otherwise sooner or later my mrs can sponsor me once she gets Canadian citizenship? (Personally I would hate to do that staying away from kids n wife and cant do it but just mentioning here as it is one of the options )

4- I am open to suggestions if there is an other option.

All experienced moderators or anyone been through same phase please guide me through ....
Cheers.

1. PRTDs are issued only to PRs so this is a non starter.

2. You may be admitted as visitors and as you state stay under the radar for 2 years - but since your kids are not PRs this again is a non starter. You can't commence sponsorship when you are in breach of the RO which CIC will know of when you file! This assumes border agent doesn't sweat you by looking into the fact you are a PR. CIC's databases are not what they used to be so if you got your PR any time since the IRPA was enacted (June 2002) they will likely see you are a PR. Even if they see you are a PR they may give you a pass. They may also report you and since lifestyle reasons such as yours are disregarded by the courts you will lose PR - the CIC lawyer will just point out you went back to your UK job and it will be downhill from there.

3. Same issues as 2 with PR and no PR dependents. Why don't you go over on your own instead of placing your wife and kids in this situation then do your 2 years and sponsor? This especially as your family will continue to receive NHS cover free at the point of delivery. If you try inland sponsorship then your kids need private medical insurance until you get An Approval In Principle (it won't be quick!)

4. What we see in this forum is the PR who for lifestyle reasons breaches their RO. Once their lifestyle reason changes by choice/out of no choice they want to return to Canada but in a manner that suits their situation....sorry no dice...expect family separation if you risk either adult entering. You can all show up at the border and chance it but the kids are non PRs...Secondary Inspection will dig into your absences as they will know you've been out for a long time.

5. Canada's citizenship laws are changing and will require 4 years of physical presence in the 6 years prior to application. There is an added caveat that the PR must have at least 183 days of physical presence in the year for the days to be considered - this makes you a tax resident of Canada. Your plan of your spouse's citizenship is at least 5+ years away depending on the processing system at that time (CIC currently has a 300+K backlog of citizenship applicants over 50% wait more than 18 months for processing post application!)

6. The show up at the Canadian border plan assumes your British naturalization is processed without any issues and you obtain your passports. Were your kids born post your attaining settlement in the UK?

 

[Canadababy]

Many thanks for your detailed response.

Answer to your question: Kids born prior obtaining settlement in UK


Firstly just to clarify – If me or my mrs leave now or in next few months to Canada, we can still satisfy the RO as we still got more than 2 years validity left on our PR cards. Problem is if we quit UK now, we are going to disturb the naturalization process and will nullify the chances of us getting UK passport.

Therefore what I mentioned in my original message “Option-3”… if I apply for kids TD now (as I haven’t breached the RO yet) – Than wife (PR), kids (TD) can go to Canada now, my wife apply for kids PR soon as they land there (still more than 2 years validity left on her PR card so authorities shouldn’t have any issue in issuing my kids PR too). Meanwhile I live in UK temporary to settle my UK passport and sponsor family in Canada…Once my UK passport is sorted than I can re-unite with family in Canada (risk incase IO stops me on airport as by that time my RO would have been breached big time but PR card would still have a few months validity left). So I can pled them to let me in on compassionate grounds as my wife n kids already living in Canada etc etc….If you think IO wont let me in even though my PR card still valid for next few months…than should I just don’t show/mention about PR and rather enter into country as visitor showing my UK passport and stay away from radar for 2 years???

Considering the plan above do you think there would still be any risk or complication which I am missing out?

Many thanks for your help

 

[Matt the Aussie]

There's a couple of problems with what you've stated in your last post Canadababy:

- Keep in mind that the validity of your PR card is NOT a guarantee that the IO does not investigate and find you in breach of the RO. The IO will look for 730 days of presence in Canada in the 5 years from the day you arrive in Canada again, not the 5 years that you've had the PR card.

- As stated by others, your children are not entitled to a TD as they are not PRs. It does not matter that you are still within the RO.

- You won't get H&C consideration on your PR based solely on "my wife and kids came here first and I need to reunite", especially when your reason for staying was to get a UK passport.

 

[zardoz]

And again, I have to point out that to take British citizenship as anything other than the spouse of an existing British citizen, you have to declare the UK as your intended principal home, not Canada. The UK does have an "intent to reside" requirement in it's nationality legislation.

 

[meyakanor]

And again, I have to point out that to take British citizenship as anything other than the spouse of an existing British citizen, you have to declare the UK as your intended principal home, not Canada. The UK does have an "intent to reside" requirement in it's nationality legislation.

Do you know how (or if) the UK government enforces the "intent-to-reside" rule? I know that New Zealand, Australia and the US too have this requirement, but have not heard of anybody getting stripped of their citizenship due to regularly residing abroad.

 

[zardoz]

I think that if their background checks detect that the declaration is a lie, they will refuse the application, even if all other requirements are met. I have not heard of anyone having citizenship removed for changing their minds after becoming a citizen. Having said that, the Home Office don't keep me informed....

The UK already has much more flexibility in revoking citizenship than Canada will have, even if Bill C-24 passes.

 

[Canadababy]

Thanks for all your responses guys.

Just to clarify further – Me and my wife PR cards are expiring in November 2016, So if I send my family now they can easily fulfill the requirement of 730 days, isn’t it???
Kids born outside Canada so I guess I have to apply for their visit visa asap NOW and send them to Canada along their mom. And then she can apply there PRs over there asap.
Is this plan workable? Or still there is some ambiguity?

Thanks for all your help

 

[zardoz]

It's extremely likely that the children will be refused visitor visas. This is because there is no intention for them to return to the UK. You will then have to request a TRP for them instead. It will be up to CIC if these are granted, depending on the circumstances...

 

[Canadababy]

Thanks again.

Sorry I know you cant answer this question, but I am still asking due to your tons of experience.
As its quite common kids being born outside Canada and parents apply for TRP in order to take them back to Canada, is it easy to get trp or the success chances are rare? do I have to hire a lawyer etc or have to take any precautionary measure while applying for TRPs?

 

[zardoz]

You can't directly request a TRP. You have to attempt to apply for a TRV first.
What many people do is for one parent to return to Canada alone and sponsor the children from there, without the children being in Canada.

 

[Canadababy]

Thanks.

Considering parents PR expiring in Nov 2016 do we have high chances that kids will be given TRVs?