ADR QUESTION- urgent

[Curina]

Hello,

I have a question.

Could it be some form of tactic for lawyers to suggest going for the ADR and then when it gets closer suggest that it might be a waste of time. The ADR fee is cheaper....going to a full hearing is more. I find it strange that my lawyer was very confident about my ADR and now has changed his mind saying that we should just go to a full hearing. My date is March 6 and well I wanted to believe that my lawyer was a decent person and would be there for me (why he is being paid). It just adds to my fustration that even these damn lawyers dont give a damn and just see us as desperate people who would believe anything and basically pay anything just to have our love ones be here with us. When I spoke to him recently it was as if he did not even read the notes that came from CIC. I told him that I will be going to the ADR and he will be there because he did say from the get go that going to the ADR will not affect having to go to a full hearing should need be. I want to be there, I want to tell my side and I most of all I got the ADR date and how dare I give this up.

What do you think...

 

[Lois Lane]

as I posted else where the exact same thing happened to me, eight month ago we sent an appeal application, monday the lawyer sends me an e-mail saying he thinks we should go to full hearing, doesn't make any sense, it is soooooooo frustrating, the killer is i had asked him at that point if he could schedule a full hearing as well in case we weren't successful at ADR he said no, i'm guessing he hasn't looked at the file at all, and now perhaps doesn't have the time to put it all together, as you may have noticed on the other forum, not every spousal application gets offered an ADr, i was sure that the whole point was that they would sift through ones that may have a chance instead of full hearing, so if we were invited to have an ADR, then there is a chance so why why oh why would we say no to that, no way not at this late stage, especially since if it doesn't go well we can still have a full hearing...makes absolutely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sense

 

[smart_saqib143]

Hello Curina,
i am very sorry to know, that you are in hard time as i am in same boat i got refusal too reason they give marriage is not genuine that's all.

1)i want some information from you , if you go for full hearing will they give you other date?

2)what is the difference between full hearing and ADR

3) what is the fees for ADR and what is the fees for full hearing

please kindly tell me

 

[RobsLuv]

Hi Smart - The ADR conference is an attempt to resolve the reason the file was refused without having to go to a full hearing. It is like a "mediation" instead of a trial. Minister's counsel is there, as well as the appellant and his/her counsel, and a mediator or facilitator who is supposed to make a recommendation to Minister's counsel after everything is discussed as to whether or not they think the appeal would be allowed at a full hearing. If so, it's in everybody's best interest to just allow it at the ADR stage - basically to avoid taking up the Court's time. The applicant is not allowed to attend the ADR conference, and no witnesses or people who can "help" the sponsor are allowed. The only person there to "help" the sponsor is his/her counsel, and that can become a problem (see below).

Unfortunately, Minister's counsel has all the power at ADR - and that's what nobody tells you. They can simply decide NOT to allow the appeal, even if the mediator recommends it. Apparently the sponsor's attorney is not there to make argument - all "discussion" happens between the sponsor and Minister's counsel, so the sponsor needs to be VERY aware and prepared to consult as often as necessary with their attorney for direction, and the attorney better be prepared to give sound direction. If that doesn't happen, Minister's counsel has a distinct advantage and will take control. KNOW what is expected, and what can happen, before you go in or you'll get stomped on.

If your case goes to ADR and is not resolved there, you still have the option to go to a full hearing and none of what is said at the ADR conference can be repeated there. At the full hearing there is a judge and/or a panel (I'm not exactly sure how this works as we've not gotten to that point yet), and you can call witnesses, etc. The applicant can also attend, to tell their side of the story. Unfortunately, getting a full hearing date takes a long time, and that's frustrating as it's usually already been a year before you get to the ADR stage. But it seems that most attorneys try for the ADR first, and don't ask for a date for a full appeal hearing until an ADR has failed. I don't know if this is how it has to happen or not - it just seems that's been everybody's experience. We were initially told, by our lawyer, that the ADR would take about 6 months and that we could absolutely expect our appeal to be allowed as a result. It took a year to get to ADR, and then Minister's counsel refused to allow the appeal. So now we're back to waiting again, having accomplished nothing.

As far as fees - the attorney's determine their own fees. Some attorneys will charge a rate for preparing for the ADR conference, and appearance at that conference, and then they'll charge additional fees if you have to go to a full hearing. But that can result in a conflict of interest. Obviously, they make MORE money if the case is not allowed at the ADR level and they "get" to represent you at a full appeal. Other attorneys, I guess, charge a flat fee that's much higher . . . and then they make their money whether you go to a full appeal or not. Obviously, it's in the best interest of those attorneys to try to get your appeal settled at ADR, because it's less work for them and they make the same amount of money either way . . . but you pay, basically, for full appeal representation even if you don't have to go there. Either way, the majority of attorneys are in it for the money . . . don't ever let yourself think they actually care about helping you. If you find one who does, you're lucky indeed.

 

[Curina]

Hello,

I have been on my lawyer s behind from the get go. I am sure when the phone rings he gets nervous. Its my family that I am fighting for and trust me I will do what it takes. I am soaking up all the info that I can, re reading the reason for refusal and all the other notes from cic. I have a lot of time on my hands right now, so I am doing my homework trust me. I make the appoints with my lawyer, I dont wait for him to have time for me. I call him and demand my time. I show up at his office and wait for him if they tell me he is not there and when I finally get to see him I have all my questions ready and he does address all of them. I will prepare myself to fight.

Smart: I am very sorry to hear about your refusal but dont let it get to you or your family for too long. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and go again. Remember we are all going in the same boat but at different stages.

I live here alone with my little boy and another baby girl on the way. I work full time as well. Everyday it gets harder and harder. But I will never give up. My husband and I made this commitment and with it comes loads of sacrifices. Whether you decide to appeal or re-apply is entirely up to you and your wife. Robsluv is right about the lawyers they could care less about actually helping you and if you get one that actually does.... you are indeed very lucky.

my lawyers fees were in total...$200 for consultation, 2100 plus tax for ADR and if needed another $900 plus tax for full hearing if needed.

C

 

[smart_saqib143]

Hello Curina and RobsLuv,

RobsLuv you are a lawyer in yourself, honestly you know much as a lawyer i appreciate your helpful comments in this forum which guides us through right way to make decisions thanks for it buddy.

Curina i can understand the hard time you go through when we get refusal its a feeling like someone put oil on our hopes and set it on fire.

life is the name of Hopes as long as hopes are alive you will be alive, dont give up i am sure inshallah new ways will be open for you to reach your husband, for everyone of you i want to share a very important website in that you can see different appeals and their decisions and draw backs in their poor paper work even before my refusal i was knew what reason they will put on my application when decision arrived it wasn't new to me here you can find cases and their decisions with search criteria i got alots of help i hope you can get help from this.

http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/search.do?language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&searchPage=eliisa%2FmainPageSearch.vm&text=&id=immigration&startDate=2001&endDate=2003&legislation=legislation&caselaw=courts&boardTribunal=tribunals


Curina what is your husband's citizenship? as he works in america on work Permit.

 

[Flori]

You are making very nervous about lawyers They don't seem to help much for what I've heard. I hired one to help me and my husband to obtain a PR thru a Provincial Nominee Program. And their fees aren't nowhere close to cheap. So far they've been ok. And she gave us a good impresion when we met her, we checked her credentials whit the board of laywers in Canada and they were good. She seemed very knowledgeable and inspired us confidence from all the rest we met and talk (about other 4 or 5). But still, I dont know.
Who is your lawyer Corina and Lois?
Does he work in Canada?

 

[Curina]

Hi Flori,

If you believe in your heart that you have found a good lawyer, then all the power to you. This was just our experience. I am sure that there are a few good ones out there. But at the same time do your home work as well and as Lois said it is your right to see your lawyer when you want to.

I checked out my lawyer as well but you have to always remember that they are not our friends and its our interest on the line and not theirs. Mine is here in Canada, not too far from my work place so I am able to pop over almost at anytime.

Dont be nervous sweetie, just be positive and strong for both you and your hubby.

Curina