About to meet RO - How to time the Spousal sponsorship application?

[Ali1138]

Hello, I need an advise on timing my spousal sponsorship application. There a two conditions in my case.
1. I am 4 months short on meeting RO. I will be in residency compliance by October 2022.
2. I need to travel outside Canada to meet my family in October 2022. I am thinking of living outside Canada for at least 3-4 months. Which means I will be back in Canada not before February 2023.

My question is should I submit my sponsorship application now, since it will be a while before I receive AOR. I may be in RO compliance by then. However, the second issue would kick in that is i will have to travel for few months. In that case is it better to postpone sponsorship application but again the processing times are very lengthy, hence my confusion.

Thank you for your response.

 

[scylla]

Hello, I need an advise on timing my spousal sponsorship application. There a two conditions in my case.
1. I am 4 months short on meeting RO. I will be in residency compliance by October 2022.
2. I need to travel outside Canada to meet my family in October 2022. I am thinking of living outside Canada for at least 3-4 months. Which means I will be back in Canada not before February 2023.

My question is should I submit my sponsorship application now, since it will be a while before I receive AOR. I may be in RO compliance by then. However, the second issue would kick in that is i will have to travel for few months. In that case is it better to postpone sponsorship application but again the processing times are very lengthy, hence my confusion.

Thank you for your response.

You should hold off submitting the application to sponsor your spouse until you have lived in Canada long enough to be back in compliance with RO. There are risks in submitting the application before you meet RO. If you plan to leave Canada for 3-4 months after you meet RO, submit the application after you have returned to Canada (i.e. Feb 2023).

 

[armoured]

1. I am 4 months short on meeting RO. I will be in residency compliance by October 2022.
2. ... I am thinking of living outside Canada for at least 3-4 months.

I'd add to the other comments: not clear from your post what you mean by 'meeting your RO' and what calculations you've made.

But you should be aware: it's an ongoing requirement to have 730 days in the last five years (or less than 1095 out of Canada in any five years). You mostly don't 'meet it' and then it goes away.

Specifically: depending on what your time in / out of Canada has been, there's a risk that if you meet the RO and then leave for four months, you'll be out of compliance with the RO again. Check carefully.

 

[Ali1138]

I'd add to the other comments: not clear from your post what you mean by 'meeting your RO' and what calculations you've made.

But you should be aware: it's an ongoing requirement to have 730 days in the last five years (or less than 1095 out of Canada in any five years). You mostly don't 'meet it' and then it goes away.

Specifically: depending on what your time in / out of Canada has been, there's a risk that if you meet the RO and then leave for four months, you'll be out of compliance with the RO again. Check carefully.

Thank you @armoured. I did not realize regarding the ongoing requirement of being in Canada for 730 days. Just to clear my doubt, I meet 730 days physical presence on October 01, that means if I travel out of Canada on October 02 I will be deemed out of compliance again?

 

[scylla]

Thank you @armoured. I did not realize regarding the ongoing requirement of being in Canada for 730 days. Just to clear my doubt, I meet 730 days physical presence on October 01, that means if I travel out of Canada on October 02 I will be deemed out of compliance again?

The residency requirement is a rolling residency requirement. At any given time, you must be able to look back at the previous five years and meet the residency requirement within this period.

 

[dpenabill]

Queries largely answered, but I will elaborate, going into some detail . . .

Hello, I need an advise on timing my spousal sponsorship application. There a two conditions in my case.
1. I am 4 months short on meeting RO. I will be in residency compliance by October 2022.
2. I need to travel outside Canada to meet my family in October 2022. I am thinking of living outside Canada for at least 3-4 months. Which means I will be back in Canada not before February 2023.

My question is should I submit my sponsorship application now, since it will be a while before I receive AOR. I may be in RO compliance by then. However, the second issue would kick in that is i will have to travel for few months. In that case is it better to postpone sponsorship application but again the processing times are very lengthy, hence my confusion.

Thank you for your response.

I concur with @scylla regarding waiting to make sponsorship application.

Moreover, especially so given what is likely to be a lengthy absence (more than three/four weeks). A PR is eligible to sponsor ONLY while IN Canada. While short trips do not ordinarily cause a problem, and it appears (emphasis on it "appears") many manage to do OK despite relatively lengthy absences pending the sponsorship application, even just cutting-it-close in terms of Residency Obligation compliance, let alone actually being in breach of the RO, increases the risk of elevated scrutiny and potentially stricter application of the rules.

I recognize that a delay potentially means a more lengthy separation from family. If you can afford a paid-for consultation with a lawyer (at best one can expect to get no more than what they pay for from a lawyer, and free consultations are worth just about what you pay for), with a reputable immigration lawyer, it may be worth exploring the possibility (emphasis on it just being a "possibility") of applying sooner with representation.

Thank you @armoured. I did not realize regarding the ongoing requirement of being in Canada for 730 days. Just to clear my doubt, I meet 730 days physical presence on October 01, that means if I travel out of Canada on October 02 I will be deemed out of compliance again?

I also concur in the caution interposed by @armoured . . .

What some PRs overlook is that the days they spent in Canada right after landing begin to fall out of the calculation as of the fifth year anniversary of their landing. While one sees many references in the forum to having "completed" their 730 days to meet the RO, there is no such thing as completing RO compliance.

For a PR who spends 730 plus days in a row in Canada, that results in them being in compliance for the next three years, so for many that more or less seems like "completing" the RO. But that is really just about the arithmetic, since for the next three years the 730 plus days in a row in Canada means they have spent at least 730 days in Canada within the preceding five years.

For you, having been a PR for more than five years, your compliance with the RO will always be based on the number of days you have been IN Canada during the preceding five years, as of any day the RO compliance calculation is based on.

PR RO compliance is a day-specific calculation, based on the date in question. Typical dates for which RO might be calculated include:

-- date a PR arrives at a Port-of-Entry returning to Canada​

-- date a PR applies for a PR Travel Document​

-- date a PR applies for a new PR card​

-- date a PR applies to sponsor a family member​

-- later date of RO compliance examination during the processing of an application for a new PR card or sponsorship​

For you, again, RO compliance is based on number of days IN Canada during the last five years, which could occur on any of those dates, and during which you need to have been IN Canada at least 730 days. (Since at least your first PR card has expired, you have obviously been a PR for more than five years, so the manner of calculating compliance during the first five years is no longer relevant for you.)

As I noted, what some PRs overlook is that days they spent in Canada right after landing begin to fall out of the calculation as of the fifth year anniversary of their landing. If they did a soft landing and only spent a few days before leaving, it is pretty easy to make up for those days later. However, what it comes down to for many is this: if after landing they left Canada and were abroad for more than 1095 days, they will need to spend at least 730 days in a row to for sure be in RO compliance before exiting Canada again. Once they do that, stay for two years, they are good for up to the next three years.

What also causes some confusion is the nature and extent of leniency CBSA and IRCC often exercise, typically unspoken. It is quite common, for example, for PRs to return to Canada while their first PR card is still valid and upon arrival be waived through the PoE without even being questioned about RO compliance, let alone Reported, EVEN THOUGH they have been outside Canada more than 1095 days since their landing and are thus in breach of the RO (since it is not possible for them to spend at least 730 days in Canada during their first five years). It appears this may have been the case for you.


Leading back to the recognition that a delay in making a sponsorship application potentially means a more lengthy separation from family:

Some anecdotal reports suggest similar leniency for PRs making sponsorship applications, which means quite a few are reporting sponsorship applications going OK even though they made the application before they are actually in RO compliance. But this entails some risk, and a lengthy absence pending that application is likely to increase the risks. Calculating those risks is tricky (emphasis on "tricky"), so the consensus overwhelmingly leans in favour of taking the safe route: do not apply for sponsorship unless and until in RO compliance, and do not go abroad for lengthy time period while sponsorship application is pending.

Depending on the advice of a competent and reputable immigration lawyer, it may be reasonable to nonetheless proceed with an application while being represented by the lawyer (noting in particular, any PR making a sponsorship application who anticipates going abroad for any significant period of time while the application is pending would be prudent to more or less buy insurance by being represented in the in the proceeding).

 

[armoured]

Thank you @armoured. I did not realize regarding the ongoing requirement of being in Canada for 730 days. Just to clear my doubt, I meet 730 days physical presence on October 01, that means if I travel out of Canada on October 02 I will be deemed out of compliance again?

I do not know the answer because it depends on your time periods in and out of Canada. You've seen the posts above - which I agree with - and I can only try to explain a bit differently.

In simple terms, if your 'current' count (at any given time) includes days from five years ago, you will start to lose days from your days-in-Canada count. If all of your 730 days are from being physically in Canada for two years straight, then you won't 'lose' those days for some time to come (three years basically).

As you are planning to depart for some months, what I'd suggest you do is set up a table with dates and then count your days-in-Canada counting back from the day you plan to return to Canada. (Or even better, a month or two after that, for safety).

I.e. if you plan to return on March 1st, 2023, check the period March 2018-2023.

[Side note, and repeating only because it is easier to calculate for some: 730 days or more IN Canada in any five year period is the same as 1095 days or less OUT of Canada, just pure arithmetic.

*With the caveat I'm not counting leap year days etc, I think anyone that close should check VERY carefully.]

 

[Ali1138]

I do not know the answer because it depends on your time periods in and out of Canada. You've seen the posts above - which I agree with - and I can only try to explain a bit differently.

In simple terms, if your 'current' count (at any given time) includes days from five years ago, you will start to lose days from your days-in-Canada count. If all of your 730 days are from being physically in Canada for two years straight, then you won't 'lose' those days for some time to come (three years basically).

As you are planning to depart for some months, what I'd suggest you do is set up a table with dates and then count your days-in-Canada counting back from the day you plan to return to Canada. (Or even better, a month or two after that, for safety).

I.e. if you plan to return on March 1st, 2023, check the period March 2018-2023.

[Side note, and repeating only because it is easier to calculate for some: 730 days or more IN Canada in any five year period is the same as 1095 days or less OUT of Canada, just pure arithmetic.

*With the caveat I'm not counting leap year days etc, I think anyone that close should check VERY carefully.]

Thank you for further simplifying the answer. I am staying continuously since last 20 months, 04 more to go for meeting RO. This means I can comfortably get back after 3-4 months break without breaching RO again.

 

[Ali1138]

Queries largely answered, but I will elaborate, going into some detail . . .



I concur with @scylla regarding waiting to make sponsorship application.

Moreover, especially so given what is likely to be a lengthy absence (more than three/four weeks). A PR is eligible to sponsor ONLY while IN Canada. While short trips do not ordinarily cause a problem, and it appears (emphasis on it "appears") many manage to do OK despite relatively lengthy absences pending the sponsorship application, even just cutting-it-close in terms of Residency Obligation compliance, let alone actually being in breach of the RO, increases the risk of elevated scrutiny and potentially stricter application of the rules.

I recognize that a delay potentially means a more lengthy separation from family. If you can afford a paid-for consultation with a lawyer (at best one can expect to get no more than what they pay for from a lawyer, and free consultations are worth just about what you pay for), with a reputable immigration lawyer, it may be worth exploring the possibility (emphasis on it just being a "possibility") of applying sooner with representation.



I also concur in the caution interposed by @armoured . . .

What some PRs overlook is that the days they spent in Canada right after landing begin to fall out of the calculation as of the fifth year anniversary of their landing. While one sees many references in the forum to having "completed" their 730 days to meet the RO, there is no such thing as completing RO compliance.

For a PR who spends 730 plus days in a row in Canada, that results in them being in compliance for the next three years, so for many that more or less seems like "completing" the RO. But that is really just about the arithmetic, since for the next three years the 730 plus days in a row in Canada means they have spent at least 730 days in Canada within the preceding five years.

For you, having been a PR for more than five years, your compliance with the RO will always be based on the number of days you have been IN Canada during the preceding five years, as of any day the RO compliance calculation is based on.

PR RO compliance is a day-specific calculation, based on the date in question. Typical dates for which RO might be calculated include:

-- date a PR arrives at a Port-of-Entry returning to Canada​

-- date a PR applies for a PR Travel Document​

-- date a PR applies for a new PR card​

-- date a PR applies to sponsor a family member​

-- later date of RO compliance examination during the processing of an application for a new PR card or sponsorship​

For you, again, RO compliance is based on number of days IN Canada during the last five years, which could occur on any of those dates, and during which you need to have been IN Canada at least 730 days. (Since at least your first PR card has expired, you have obviously been a PR for more than five years, so the manner of calculating compliance during the first five years is no longer relevant for you.)

As I noted, what some PRs overlook is that days they spent in Canada right after landing begin to fall out of the calculation as of the fifth year anniversary of their landing. If they did a soft landing and only spent a few days before leaving, it is pretty easy to make up for those days later. However, what it comes down to for many is this: if after landing they left Canada and were abroad for more than 1095 days, they will need to spend at least 730 days in a row to for sure be in RO compliance before exiting Canada again. Once they do that, stay for two years, they are good for up to the next three years.

What also causes some confusion is the nature and extent of leniency CBSA and IRCC often exercise, typically unspoken. It is quite common, for example, for PRs to return to Canada while their first PR card is still valid and upon arrival be waived through the PoE without even being questioned about RO compliance, let alone Reported, EVEN THOUGH they have been outside Canada more than 1095 days since their landing and are thus in breach of the RO (since it is not possible for them to spend at least 730 days in Canada during their first five years). It appears this may have been the case for you.


Leading back to the recognition that a delay in making a sponsorship application potentially means a more lengthy separation from family:

Some anecdotal reports suggest similar leniency for PRs making sponsorship applications, which means quite a few are reporting sponsorship applications going OK even though they made the application before they are actually in RO compliance. But this entails some risk, and a lengthy absence pending that application is likely to increase the risks. Calculating those risks is tricky (emphasis on "tricky"), so the consensus overwhelmingly leans in favour of taking the safe route: do not apply for sponsorship unless and until in RO compliance, and do not go abroad for lengthy time period while sponsorship application is pending.

Depending on the advice of a competent and reputable immigration lawyer, it may be reasonable to nonetheless proceed with an application while being represented by the lawyer (noting in particular, any PR making a sponsorship application who anticipates going abroad for any significant period of time while the application is pending would be prudent to more or less buy insurance by being represented in the in the proceeding).

@dpenabill Thank you for the comprehensive response. I particularly appreciate your close attention to detail. You have rightly perceived my condition. I did get lucky at POE, the officer may have been lenient due to COVID or what not but still I have managed to stay for more than 20 months at a stretch and intend to meet the 24 months of residency obligation. I do understand the risks highlighted by @armoured and @scylla as well as yourself in applying for family sponsorship at this juncture and I doubt any immigration consultant would advise any different that what is written here. I am truly thankful for this forum and members like you @armoured and @scylla for responding patiently.

 

[armoured]

Thank you for further simplifying the answer. I am staying continuously since last 20 months, 04 more to go for meeting RO. This means I can comfortably get back after 3-4 months break without breaching RO again.

That part sounds straightforward enough, but I don't think you've worked through all the details.

-If you will only be compliant with RO in October, you will NOT get the PR card before you depart.

-Which means: have you worked out how you get back to Canada?

-You may or may not get the PR card mailed to you at Canadian address. You may be asked to come pick it up - in Canada. Back to step ... how to get to Canada?

-You could cross at a land border - if you can get to the USA.

-Or, if those other ones don't work out, you may have to apply for a PRTD. That will take some time.

And warning: if you depart when you have JUST exactly 730 days is some possibility PRTD ro PR card will get longer review period, and requests to submit more information to show you were in Canada.

I think it's fair to say that those who truly have the 730 days usually can show that to satsifaction of IRCC officer (in the not-so-frequent cases where it comes up) and get renewed or the PRTD issued. It doesn't mean it's fun or convenient or as quick as one would like - and may cause problems with other plans.

N0te, I'm NOT saying what will happen, just that you perhaps need to spend a bit more time thinking about what might happen.

 

[armoured]

If you leave once you meet the 2 year RO as soon as you leave Canada you will be out of compliance again. RO is a rolling total.

This statement is not correct in this specific case (and in all cases, depends on the specifics of when the 730 days in Canada were accumulated). Some who get to 730 days will be out of compliance if they leave the next day, some will not.

The OP specified here that has been in Canada for 20 months straight, and the 'will be in compliance' (730 days) four months from now - in other words, that means will have been in Canada 730 days or more straight.

If that's factually correct, whatever happened in the three years (three years less a day to be precise) prior to that is no longer relevant to compliance. The 730-days-straight in Canada now means that the PR will be in compliance for at least another three years (less a day) - because the 'rolling window' now includes those 730 days.

 

[canuck78]

This statement is not correct in this specific case (and in all cases, depends on the specifics of when the 730 days in Canada were accumulated). Some who get to 730 days will be out of compliance if they leave the next day, some will not.

The OP specified here that has been in Canada for 20 months straight, and the 'will be in compliance' (730 days) four months from now - in other words, that means will have been in Canada 730 days or more straight.

If that's factually correct, whatever happened in the three years (three years less a day to be precise) prior to that is no longer relevant to compliance. The 730-days-straight in Canada now means that the PR will be in compliance for at least another three years (less a day) - because the 'rolling window' now includes those 730 days.

Sorry brain wasn’t working well this morning

 

[Ali1138]

That part sounds straightforward enough, but I don't think you've worked through all the details.

-If you will only be compliant with RO in October, you will NOT get the PR card before you depart.

-Which means: have you worked out how you get back to Canada?

-You may or may not get the PR card mailed to you at Canadian address. You may be asked to come pick it up - in Canada. Back to step ... how to get to Canada?

-You could cross at a land border - if you can get to the USA.

-Or, if those other ones don't work out, you may have to apply for a PRTD. That will take some time.

And warning: if you depart when you have JUST exactly 730 days is some possibility PRTD or PR card will get longer review period, and requests to submit more information to show you were in Canada.

I think it's fair to say that those who truly have the 730 days usually can show that to satisfaction of IRCC officer (in the not-so-frequent cases where it comes up) and get renewed or the PRTD issued. It doesn't mean it's fun or convenient or as quick as one would like - and may cause problems with other plans.

N0te, I'm NOT saying what will happen, just that you perhaps need to spend a bit more time thinking about what might happen.

Hello, I have just met the RO now, living and working 2 years/730 days continuously. I am truly very eager to travel to meet my family as I have not seen them this whole time. My company can grant me unpaid leave for 2-3 months. However, I am still on cross road when to apply for PR card renewal. Please any new insights.
1. Is it better to apply for PR card renewal before I leave, say in next 10-15 days which will render 740/745 days of continuous stay.
2. Should I travel back after vacation and try to enter Canada via US, as I have a B1/B2 visa and can satisfy the border agent that I am in compliance. or
3. Is it better to apply for PRTD when I am on vacation and wait for the travel documents?

And can I enter via US when my PRTD application or PR card renewal application is still in progress? Thank you.

 

[canuck78]

Hello, I have just met the RO now, living and working 2 years/730 days continuously. I am truly very eager to travel to meet my family as I have not seen them this whole time. My company can grant me unpaid leave for 2-3 months. However, I am still on cross road when to apply for PR card renewal. Please any new insights.
1. Is it better to apply for PR card renewal before I leave, say in next 10-15 days which will render 740/745 days of continuous stay.
2. Should I travel back after vacation and try to enter Canada via US, as I have a B1/B2 visa and can satisfy the border agent that I am in compliance. or
3. Is it better to apply for PRTD when I am on vacation and wait for the travel documents?

And can I enter via US when my PRTD application or PR card renewal application is still in progress? Thank you.

You should definitely give yourself a bit of buffer time instead of leaving exactly on day 731. Would actually recommend a few months buffer time or else your chances of secondary review increases when you apply for PR card renewal. Entering via US is probably easier but you risk being stopped if you are extremely close to 730 days. Give yourself some form of buffer.