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A rejected citizenship application case spread online

BDABCD2009

Star Member
Dec 7, 2015
108
31
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Singapore
NOC Code......
0213
App. Filed.......
30 Aug 2016
Doc's Request.
14- OCt 2016
Nomination.....
22 Oct 2016
AOR Received.
05 Mar 2017
File Transfer...
15 March
Med's Request
26 June 2017
Med's Done....
02 July 2017
Interview........
Not required
Passport Req..
23-07-2017
VISA ISSUED...
27-08-2017
LANDED..........
15 June 2018
I'm sorry about this.

However, while people were spreading paranoia in the past (around 2016 - 2017) about PR statuses being revoked because of not fulfilling the obligations to the nominating province (and the province "withdrew" the nomination that was provided), I took it with a grain of salt but also kept an open mind.

Technically, you are signing a commitment when you apply for Provincial Nominee Program and you, in good faith, INTEND to try and establish yourself in the province and fill a market need there. However, at first glance of Section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, there is nothing in there that suggests that section 6 doesn't fully apply to provincial nominees. While I have heard stories of provinces revoking the nomination ( at least 1 case seemed to be legitimate), my understanding was this kind of revocation was very rarely enforced. I know a bunch of friends who all applied for PNP programs from other provinces but they lived there for a week or a month (tops) and then moved to Toronto.

I have noted, in the past, several times that this is sort of like using a backdoor to enter Canada and it is more of a moral obligation (rather than a legal one) to reside in the province of nomination. At the time, I found no legal basis with which this can actually be enforced.

I found a more technical version of section 6 (and related sections and some supreme court judgements related to section 6) here => https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art6.html

However, that turned out to be way too technical for me.

Later, this caught my eye :



One could argue that "any laws or practices of general application in force in a province" includes the obligations of a provincial nominee (to at least try) to establish him/herself in the nominating province but I am not sure.

Having said that, you agree to the condition that you "intend" to live in the nominating province. "Intentions" change. If say, someone who was in a province for 6 months and applied for hundreds of jobs got a couple of interviews but did not get the job, then I'd say that person has every right to move to a different province because the applicant "intended" to stay in the province and has the evidence of efforts s/he made to establish him/herself in the province but it just didn't work out. But if the nominee just landed in the province and moved to a different province a week later without any real effort, then that could potentially be used against the applicant.

Nevertheless, these cases are very rare given the number of people that use nominee programs as backdoors into Canada.

@dpenabill @scylla => Thoughts?

PS :

Here is a post that shows what is apparently a response from SINP when someone asked them if they can move out of the province. Here is another unverified report.

I read the case that @dpenabill posted (https://canlii.ca/t/jcm9c ) and this is a very valid example that this type of revocation/removal is real and does happen.
Hi Raj

I have seen your post and like to ask you few thing.

I am a SINP applicant landed Aug 2019 in Toronto and start to living in Regina, SK since Aug-19. Can you please advise if following criteria will be enough to show my intention to live in SK.

-I rented an apartment in SK for a year agreement, and lived there until Mar 15, 2020
-we have got our health card
- enrolled my both sons in SK public school and studied there for 6.5 months until we move out to ON.
- I took my driving license after few try and bought a new car from SK.
- 3 of us of us are still using the SK cell number that we took in SK

So I stayed in SK for 6 and half month before we move out to ON.

I tried to find job of my selected NOC but during that time 2019 I could find much job posting to apply. I though applied whatever I found but unfortunately I didn't keep a record of those applications. I only found 2 or 3 application of that time. Also when Covid hits Canada in Jan 20 the chance of job opportunity become zero in SK. and I'am getting hope of job in ON from personal connection.

After coming to ON I got a full time temporary job with Federal Govt on my preferred NOC and since then I'm still living in ON.

Also, before move out from SK I didn't inform SINP office of my move. Though I cheeked with SK Open Door society and they provided me a copy of mobility right and said that as a PR I can go and live anywhere in Canada.

Since entering in Canada Aug 2019 we didn't go outside of Canada and will be eligible to apply for citizenship next year. Because of wide spread recent hoax of PR removing of a PNP applicant, I'm rethinking of moving back to SK. and now I am regularly keep applying job in SK. if I get a job offer then I will surly plan to move to SK and then apply citizen from there.

But if I dont get any offer from SK and stay in ON.

Do you think, it will be an issue of misrepresentation of my intention and will have any worse consequence on my PR or citizenship .

Thank you for your time and appreciate your advise.
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,787
Hi Raj

I have seen your post and like to ask you few thing.

I am a SINP applicant landed Aug 2019 in Toronto and start to living in Regina, SK since Aug-19. Can you please advise if following criteria will be enough to show my intention to live in SK.

-I rented an apartment in SK for a year agreement, and lived there until Mar 15, 2020
-we have got our health card
- enrolled my both sons in SK public school and studied there for 6.5 months until we move out to ON.
- I took my driving license after few try and bought a new car from SK.
- 3 of us of us are still using the SK cell number that we took in SK

So I stayed in SK for 6 and half month before we move out to ON.

I tried to find job of my selected NOC but during that time 2019 I could find much job posting to apply. I though applied whatever I found but unfortunately I didn't keep a record of those applications. I only found 2 or 3 application of that time. Also when Covid hits Canada in Jan 20 the chance of job opportunity become zero in SK. and I'am getting hope of job in ON from personal connection.

After coming to ON I got a full time temporary job with Federal Govt on my preferred NOC and since then I'm still living in ON.

Also, before move out from SK I didn't inform SINP office of my move. Though I cheeked with SK Open Door society and they provided me a copy of mobility right and said that as a PR I can go and live anywhere in Canada.

Since entering in Canada Aug 2019 we didn't go outside of Canada and will be eligible to apply for citizenship next year. Because of wide spread recent hoax of PR removing of a PNP applicant, I'm rethinking of moving back to SK. and now I am regularly keep applying job in SK. if I get a job offer then I will surly plan to move to SK and then apply citizen from there.

But if I dont get any offer from SK and stay in ON.

Do you think, it will be an issue of misrepresentation of my intention and will have any worse consequence on my PR or citizenship .

Thank you for your time and appreciate your advise.
It is very rare for the province to invoke this so you are getting way ahead of yourself. Don't worry, province trying to revoke nomination isn't a common occurrence.

Moreover, from what you've mentioned, it is clear that you took steps to establish yourself in SK. So, that's good.

Don't worry too much about this.

Good luck!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
Hi Raj

I am a SINP applicant landed Aug 2019 in Toronto and start to living in Regina, SK since Aug-19. Can you please advise if following criteria will be enough to show my intention to live in SK.

Do you think, it will be an issue of misrepresentation of my intention and will have any worse consequence on my PR or citizenship .
Don't worry, province trying to revoke nomination isn't a common occurrence.
For clarity: once the SINP applicant has landed, and is a PR, there is no nomination to revoke. The former applicant/candidate is a PR, governed by the Federal immigration law.

We typically refer to the landed PR as a PNP nominee, or here SINP nominee, because that is the path to their PR status. But once they are a PR, the nomination process is history (as noted before, perhaps with the exception of New Brunswick, which I say based only on some vague suggestions at a couple law firm websites).

Before or after landing makes a big difference. A province can withdraw (or revoke) its nomination any time up to when the SINP applicant goes through the landing process. Most of the cases recounted in official sources are about individuals identified as making misrepresentations in the process either BEFORE a PR visa is issued, or after the visa is issued but before the individual is effectively "landed," including a couple where the applicants were not allowed to land and then the province withdrew the nomination (thus, precluding any effective relief in an appeal; even if the border officials improperly denied landing, once the nomination is withdrawn the SINP applicant no longer qualifies for PR, so even if the IAD rules the border officials improperly denied landing, that does the SINP applicant no good).

After Landing: The prospect that a province might suspect a particular PNP applicant made misrepresentations about intent to locate in the province, and pursue recourse, such as conducting an investigation and providing the results of the investigation to CBSA/IRCC, appears to be uncommon or even unusual. Again, most of the misrepresentation allegations for PNP applicants appear to arise and be resolved BEFORE a PR visa is even issued, and otherwise most of the others are still BEFORE landing.

But again, to be clear, once the person has landed and is a PR, the province has no direct say in the person's status (there may be some very specific, limited programs that are different; this is about the typical PNP). Worst the province can do is submit information to CBSA or IRCC, like any informant or whistleblower, and request action be taken on that information. These matters are almost always investigated by CBSA, which turns over the results of their investigation to IRCC, and then a determination is made to prosecute a misrepresentation case or not. These are NOT common for any type of misrepresentation. Again, even in regards to other types of misrepresentation, CBSA and IRCC focus on interdiction in the process BEFORE landing. Misrepresentation prosecutions of landed immigrants happens but is not common.

How common is it for a province to even investigate a PNP nominee after they have landed? I do not know. Guess is not all that often. Guess is that it is limited to (1) most egregious cases (no settlement in province at all in conjunction with evidence of pre-landing plans to settle in another province, such as pre-landing applications to employers in other provinces), or (2) tip line informants providing concrete information with details likely to indicate there is hard evidence of misrepresentation . . . again, such as pre-landing job applications in other provinces. (Inviting some abuse of a quote of a quote in a movie about Afghanistan, "there are no enemies, only future allies," but in the context here, one might caution, cynically, "there are no loving partners, only future vengeful informants.") But even if a province decides to investigate, the odds are it goes nowhere.

Bottom-line: odds are probably remote a PR will be prosecuted for misrepresentation, any misrepresentation. No likely misrepresentation claims except in the most egregious cases, and even then only when the evidence is rather strong.


Impact on Citizenship Application?

Is the question about the final outcome? Will a citizenship application trigger a misrepresentation prosecution? Could it be denied on the basis of misrepresentation resulting in a five year prohibition from applying again?

NOT LIKELY any of that. Could but not likely.

But no particular amount of proof is necessary for a suspicion of misrepresentation to have an impact on a processing agent's perception about an applicant's credibility, and while this alone is not likely to determine the outcome, it can have an impact on how it goes, ranging from the level of scrutiny the applicant is given to whether non-routine processing is triggered. The importance of the applicant's credibility can not be overstated. It matters.

And otherwise the details matter. But foremost, moving out of the nominating province is NOT misrepresentation. So moving out of the province is not what matters all that much.

The question is whether the government has other information which indicates there was misrepresentation in the process of becoming a PR or in the citizenship application. We all know that misrepresentation of intention alone is very difficult to prove. Many of us rely on trusting that what is secret in our heads really is secret. (Reminds me of the Bob Dylan song: "If my thought dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine . . . ")

But spoiler alert: It makes a big difference whether the PR did make misrepresentations of intention. Many will scoff at this. How would IRCC agents know? Most here tend to focus on what proves or at least indicates there was misrepresentation. And of course the latter is important (as noted, if someone sends the province or IRCC copies of documents showing job applications in other provinces made prior to landing, that's like giving them the smoking gun). But here I am talking about what the individual actually intended. Subjectively. In their mind:
-- Odds tend to be really, really good if the PNP-nominee PR did not make any misrepresentation about intentions.​
-- Odds tend to go in the other direction if the PNP-nominee PR did make misrepresentations about intentions during the application and landing process.​

How and why this is so gets complicated. Lots of tangents and long stories. I will offer just one of the more obvious highlights: we tend to give ourselves away in the details when we fabricate. And that is a big part of why IRCC asks for so much information well beyond the scope of what is directly relevant to the requirements for a grant of citizenship. Job history, for example, when there is no requirement to be employed to qualify for citizenship. Reason for absences in the presence calculation when the reason for an absence is not relevant to any requirement for citizenship.

Overall:

For PNP nominees who did NOT misrepresent their intentions, the odds are overwhelmingly good a move out of the nominating province will have little or no negative influence in how IRCC processes the citizenship application.

For PNP nominees who misrepresented their intentions, the odds are also fairly good a move out of the nominating province will have little or no negative influence, but the risk is they'll show their hand some in the details and that could invite suspicions and compromise their credibility, resulting in some bumps along the way . . . but things will probably turn out OK unless some additional, particular discrepancies in their story show up in the details.
 

BDABCD2009

Star Member
Dec 7, 2015
108
31
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Singapore
NOC Code......
0213
App. Filed.......
30 Aug 2016
Doc's Request.
14- OCt 2016
Nomination.....
22 Oct 2016
AOR Received.
05 Mar 2017
File Transfer...
15 March
Med's Request
26 June 2017
Med's Done....
02 July 2017
Interview........
Not required
Passport Req..
23-07-2017
VISA ISSUED...
27-08-2017
LANDED..........
15 June 2018
It is very rare for the province to invoke this so you are getting way ahead of yourself. Don't worry, province trying to revoke nomination isn't a common occurrence.

Moreover, from what you've mentioned, it is clear that you took steps to establish yourself in SK. So, that's good.

Don't worry too much about this.

Good luck!
Thank you so much for your reply. Accept my gratitude and appreciation. I feel much relieved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rajkamalmohanram

BDABCD2009

Star Member
Dec 7, 2015
108
31
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Singapore
NOC Code......
0213
App. Filed.......
30 Aug 2016
Doc's Request.
14- OCt 2016
Nomination.....
22 Oct 2016
AOR Received.
05 Mar 2017
File Transfer...
15 March
Med's Request
26 June 2017
Med's Done....
02 July 2017
Interview........
Not required
Passport Req..
23-07-2017
VISA ISSUED...
27-08-2017
LANDED..........
15 June 2018
For clarity: once the SINP applicant has landed, and is a PR, there is no nomination to revoke. The former applicant/candidate is a PR, governed by the Federal immigration law.

We typically refer to the landed PR as a PNP nominee, or here SINP nominee, because that is the path to their PR status. But once they are a PR, the nomination process is history (as noted before, perhaps with the exception of New Brunswick, which I say based only on some vague suggestions at a couple law firm websites).

Before or after landing makes a big difference. A province can withdraw (or revoke) its nomination any time up to when the SINP applicant goes through the landing process. Most of the cases recounted in official sources are about individuals identified as making misrepresentations in the process either BEFORE a PR visa is issued, or after the visa is issued but before the individual is effectively "landed," including a couple where the applicants were not allowed to land and then the province withdrew the nomination (thus, precluding any effective relief in an appeal; even if the border officials improperly denied landing, once the nomination is withdrawn the SINP applicant no longer qualifies for PR, so even if the IAD rules the border officials improperly denied landing, that does the SINP applicant no good).

After Landing: The prospect that a province might suspect a particular PNP applicant made misrepresentations about intent to locate in the province, and pursue recourse, such as conducting an investigation and providing the results of the investigation to CBSA/IRCC, appears to be uncommon or even unusual. Again, most of the misrepresentation allegations for PNP applicants appear to arise and be resolved BEFORE a PR visa is even issued, and otherwise most of the others are still BEFORE landing.

But again, to be clear, once the person has landed and is a PR, the province has no direct say in the person's status (there may be some very specific, limited programs that are different; this is about the typical PNP). Worst the province can do is submit information to CBSA or IRCC, like any informant or whistleblower, and request action be taken on that information. These matters are almost always investigated by CBSA, which turns over the results of their investigation to IRCC, and then a determination is made to prosecute a misrepresentation case or not. These are NOT common for any type of misrepresentation. Again, even in regards to other types of misrepresentation, CBSA and IRCC focus on interdiction in the process BEFORE landing. Misrepresentation prosecutions of landed immigrants happens but is not common.

How common is it for a province to even investigate a PNP nominee after they have landed? I do not know. Guess is not all that often. Guess is that it is limited to (1) most egregious cases (no settlement in province at all in conjunction with evidence of pre-landing plans to settle in another province, such as pre-landing applications to employers in other provinces), or (2) tip line informants providing concrete information with details likely to indicate there is hard evidence of misrepresentation . . . again, such as pre-landing job applications in other provinces. (Inviting some abuse of a quote of a quote in a movie about Afghanistan, "there are no enemies, only future allies," but in the context here, one might caution, cynically, "there are no loving partners, only future vengeful informants.") But even if a province decides to investigate, the odds are it goes nowhere.

Bottom-line: odds are probably remote a PR will be prosecuted for misrepresentation, any misrepresentation. No likely misrepresentation claims except in the most egregious cases, and even then only when the evidence is rather strong.


Impact on Citizenship Application?

Is the question about the final outcome? Will a citizenship application trigger a misrepresentation prosecution? Could it be denied on the basis of misrepresentation resulting in a five year prohibition from applying again?

NOT LIKELY any of that. Could but not likely.

But no particular amount of proof is necessary for a suspicion of misrepresentation to have an impact on a processing agent's perception about an applicant's credibility, and while this alone is not likely to determine the outcome, it can have an impact on how it goes, ranging from the level of scrutiny the applicant is given to whether non-routine processing is triggered. The importance of the applicant's credibility can not be overstated. It matters.

And otherwise the details matter. But foremost, moving out of the nominating province is NOT misrepresentation. So moving out of the province is not what matters all that much.

The question is whether the government has other information which indicates there was misrepresentation in the process of becoming a PR or in the citizenship application. We all know that misrepresentation of intention alone is very difficult to prove. Many of us rely on trusting that what is secret in our heads really is secret. (Reminds me of the Bob Dylan song: "If my thought dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine . . . ")

But spoiler alert: It makes a big difference whether the PR did make misrepresentations of intention. Many will scoff at this. How would IRCC agents know? Most here tend to focus on what proves or at least indicates there was misrepresentation. And of course the latter is important (as noted, if someone sends the province or IRCC copies of documents showing job applications in other provinces made prior to landing, that's like giving them the smoking gun). But here I am talking about what the individual actually intended. Subjectively. In their mind:
-- Odds tend to be really, really good if the PNP-nominee PR did not make any misrepresentation about intentions.​
-- Odds tend to go in the other direction if the PNP-nominee PR did make misrepresentations about intentions during the application and landing process.​

How and why this is so gets complicated. Lots of tangents and long stories. I will offer just one of the more obvious highlights: we tend to give ourselves away in the details when we fabricate. And that is a big part of why IRCC asks for so much information well beyond the scope of what is directly relevant to the requirements for a grant of citizenship. Job history, for example, when there is no requirement to be employed to qualify for citizenship. Reason for absences in the presence calculation when the reason for an absence is not relevant to any requirement for citizenship.

Overall:

For PNP nominees who did NOT misrepresent their intentions, the odds are overwhelmingly good a move out of the nominating province will have little or no negative influence in how IRCC processes the citizenship application.

For PNP nominees who misrepresented their intentions, the odds are also fairly good a move out of the nominating province will have little or no negative influence, but the risk is they'll show their hand some in the details and that could invite suspicions and compromise their credibility, resulting in some bumps along the way . . . but things will probably turn out OK unless some additional, particular discrepancies in their story show up in the details.
Dear depenabill,
I can’t thank you enough for your long explanation. You makes it clear very well and in details. This long explanation I’m sure give a good hive of relief to many.
thank you thank you.
 
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Reactions: jckailun

krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
Hi all,

The message that this thread is discussing was mentioned in the WhatsApp group that I am in. I am also a SK nominee and am living here. But it was difficult to find a job here when I moved. It was also probably because I moved just when the pandemic was declared. I did manage to find a job in SK, but I got laid off after 8 months of working for the company.

I then applied and got a job in a company that is in ON, but I am working from home in that job in SK. The Province Income Tax is deducted from my salary is based on ON and not SK. The company's payroll department confirmed that anyone who works from outside ON, are being deducted the taxes based on ON only and not their respective province.

Could this create any kind of problem in the future?

Thank you.
 

Remya86

Full Member
Jan 3, 2017
29
2
Hi all,

The message that this thread is discussing was mentioned in the WhatsApp group that I am in. I am also a SK nominee and am living here. But it was difficult to find a job here when I moved. It was also probably because I moved just when the pandemic was declared. I did manage to find a job in SK, but I got laid off after 8 months of working for the company.

I then applied and got a job in a company that is in ON, but I am working from home in that job in SK. The Province Income Tax is deducted from my salary is based on ON and not SK. The company's payroll department confirmed that anyone who works from outside ON, are being deducted the taxes based on ON only and not their respective province.

Could this create any kind of problem in the future?

Thank you.

I am also in the similar situation, I researched a bit about this and got the below information from a site. here



Not sure if this is reliable, which need to check with some tax consultant.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,325
8,921
I then applied and got a job in a company that is in ON, but I am working from home in that job in SK. The Province Income Tax is deducted from my salary is based on ON and not SK. The company's payroll department confirmed that anyone who works from outside ON, are being deducted the taxes based on ON only and not their respective province.

Could this create any kind of problem in the future?
It's not really a big deal and shouldn't cause any significant problems. It's not even that rare - lots of people in border towns commuting between provinces. (Okay not so many from SK to ON).

As the other link provided shows, you pay taxes based on province of residence. You don't worry about it, you just file; it's possible you'd end up having over or under-paid and have to pay some owing at end of year. (So of course pay attention - put some money aside if taxes higher in SK).

That's pretty much it. Obviously do your own research and it may be worth seeing a professional.