Unfortunately, IRCC personnel don't understand how much we sacrificed to reach this point in terms of job opportunities, major personal life decisions ... etc. I am sad to say this (again): we are not respected by the government as immigrants, especially by IRCC who thinks they are doing us a favor by processing our applications. In the UK they send you a detailed explanation why your application will not be processed within the normal processing time. Why such thing doesn't exist in Canada? Also, do you think such a response would be told to a citizen? Or what would happen if customer service of a commercial company you are a customer of replied like this? You could escalate it, but with IRCC you cannot. Of course we are in the dark. No one knows anything and why our files are not progressing. That's why people order notes on their files, but they don't learn much from them also. I only hope the wait for us is not much longer. I cannot wait to not interacting with IRCC for another 10 years. This whole citizenship experience has been terrible, and anxiety-inducing. It was partly bad luck with the pandemic, but also partly incompetency on IRCC part in dealing with the situation. They are proud they accepted 400,000 immigrants during the pandemic. They just look at immigration as numbers. Not as immigrants, as human-beings.
2019 Applicants are stuck in limbo. Help create a Twitter trend so IRCC can take note/action.
- Thread starter mandhaata
- Start date
I assume they mean making a decision on these files and invite them for the oath. However, I wouldn't take them on this. Actually if you called them and told them your file is within the period they are finalizing, yet your file is not finalized, they would tell you every file is unique. If everything is incomplete, it maybe the case that your file is stuck in BG check. They won't invite you to the test before this is completed.
While I do not know to what extent citizenship application files might be assigned to a particular processing agent (which if they are, that would mostly mean the file is in some kind of in-box for a particular processing agent), we know that there are maybe three to five days TOTAL that anyone is actually actively working on a citizenship application (with some exceptions, which no one wants to be since that would be not just a non-routine case but entangled in one of the more complex and time-consuming non-routine procedures). The other 400 to 700, or so, days the file is in one queue or another. Waiting for an agent to take the file from the queue to do the next step. In the meantime there is NOTHING happening. The file is in queue. Sitting in queue.
Basically, again with some exceptions, when a processing agent takes the next application in queue, that agent starts and completes the relevant task, for that step in the process, then and there, taking fifteen minutes or an hour and fifteen minutes, during which the agent completes the task at hand and also does a digital GCMS background screening -- which is mostly to look for updates or changes to the file, and to run the criminal name record check which is, at the least, run against an interagency shared version of the RCMP and the U.S. NCIC (FBI) name-record databases. This GCMS clearance is required every time a processing agent or citizenship officer takes any action on a citizenship application. Then the file goes back into a queue for the next step.
I cannot read minds or hearts, or otherwise second-guess the emotional responses of IRCC personnel, least of all the least informed of them engaged as telephone agents in the help or client support centre, but I can easily imagine their frustration getting call after call pressing them for information that does not exist or is otherwise not accessible through them . . . their access to information they can share is largely limited to
-- FAQ like information that is largely generic (their primary function)
-- a view of the client's GCMS record that is mostly the same as what would be shared with the client through the ATIP process, as of that moment in time . . . in effect much is redacted or, like most databases access protocols, the output is specified by the type of report, displaying information in certain fields, not displaying other fields
The overriding thing is that for the vast majority of qualified applicants, those who have no reason to apprehend there is a problem with their application (apart from the well-known mire of processing generally, and which appears to be affecting summer and fall 2019 applicants the worst), there is NOTHING to be learned . . . as the call centre agents repeat, again and again and again, each perhaps in their own way but generally amounting to the same message: situation normal, application in queue, agents will get to it in due course (due course being much slower than applicants want, by a lot these days).
For the others, the exceptions from the vast majority: Other than possibly noting the file is "non-routine," the call centre agents mostly give the same message to applicants EVEN if the application has left the routine track and is involved in more problematic procedures. They cannot see (any more than the applicant will see in a copy of the GCMS records obtained via ATIP) any information about referrals to CBSA and its NSSD for investigations, for example. That is confidential information, methods and means stuff. BUT notwithstanding protests to the contrary, almost every applicant whose application has been referred for such an investigation KNOWS at least there is the likelihood of this in their particular case. Pretenses of ignorance do not fly. Who and why applications get sidetracked is no great mystery.
Of course I have no clue where in the scheme of things your situation fits. But frankly it is almost certainly among the vast majority, nothing to worry about, enduring however much angst the excessive processing time is causing you personally, in queue and, as the agents will repeat, it will get there . . . OR . . . you know there is reason to apprehend a more difficult, inconvenient, and potentially much longer processing time looming. One or the other. And since YOU know your file, your case, your history, your situation better than anyone else in the entire world, no need to call the help line to find out how things are going. You basically know if you can RELAX (but yeah, still have to wait extraordinarily long these days) or have reason to WORRY.
I have gone into that detail not just for you . . . but as a reminder for most, for the vast majority. No need to waste time or energy chasing ghosts. No need to bang your head against the wall and invite even more anger and stress into the mix. Having to wait, given current processing timelines, is disappointing and discouraging enough. As someone who has been around, and around and around, I can definitively caution the angst adds up in the course of life, steering clear when one can will make a difference.
None of which is intended to discourage, in the least, ongoing activism aimed at incentivizing IRCC to do a better and more efficient job. Even as to this, many will benefit from picking their battles, not go off combating windmills, recognizing some are more suited to carry on the fight than others. We can admire those who carry the oriflamme and otherwise do our part as is suited to our own station in these matters.
But the struggle to get citizenship application processing on a faster track is not a battle to be waged with mere help centre call agents.
Thank you very much for your message.
May I ask how do you know so much of the inner workings at IRCC? Does this mean that applications are not assigned to one agent for the whole process?
I get your point. And i always try to be as polite as possible when contacting them. For instance, I always acknowledge that there are surely many constraints IRCC faces that we are unaware of as applicants, and that I believe many applications would be quite understanding of the situation if we knew what was actually going on.
I honestly have no reason to believe there is a reason to worry with my file (and everything has been completed except physical presence because some stamps on my passport were not legible and I now have sent supplementary evidence). Having said that, there have been real impacts on my file because of this uncertainty in my application... I sincerely wish I could just "relax" =/
We are very much aware that contacting IRCC repeatedly or the continued pressure on social media will not amount to much. But at this point, it is the only thing left many of us can do =/
thank you for the info you shared
The tweet is still getting participation. We need more voices and to keep at it. IRCC cares about media noise. They will listen with enough noise.
Actually there is far, far more about the "inner" workings at IRCC I do not know. I am no expert.
But no great expertise is necessary to brush aside most of the irrelevant stuff and identify what we do know. And the basics are not really all that obscure or difficult to discern. One of the persistent problems pervasive in this forum, however, is the extent to which so many are trying to micro-monitor the progress of a process which is mostly, most of the time, merely wait time, in queue time. A lot of it is like staring at a pot of water waiting to see it boil when the burner is not even turned on yet. Or otherwise trying to read more into bits and pieces of this and that information than what is there.
You ask "Does this mean that applications are not assigned to one agent for the whole process?"
As I noted in the previous post, "I do not know to what extent citizenship application files might be assigned to a particular processing agent." Very first sentence in that post. I do not want to be harsh, but figuring this stuff out begins with actually reading what information is available (and there is a lot . . . including information in this forum and as cited and linked in this forum). For those who are genuinely interested in knowing as much as possible about how the system works, that begins with trying to understand the information available rather than attack it. When the call agent says "it's normal," trying to put that in context and understand what it means will be more fruitful than berating the agent (in person or otherwise) for failing to be clear there is no sign the water is boiling yet because no one has turned on the burner yet.
Also note, it is readily apparent that detailed practices vary from one local office to another. But those practices, even though they might vary some, nonetheless fit into the general scheme of the *routine* process (and also much if not most of the non-routine procedures which are only slightly off the mainstream processing track). While the details have certainly changed some over the years (as they must even if only to accommodate the changes in law), the general scheme most likely still follows, relatively close, that laid out in the OB 407 File Requirements Checklist, which is supposed to be confidential and not public information but there has been a leaked version floating around the Internet for many years, which along with ATI responses (not to be confused with the ATIP process) sharing redacted versions of the operational guidelines and various internal memos, has provided a foundation on which subsequent information, bits here, pieces there, can be built.
Covid has thrown a huge wrench into things. And has especially sabotaged efforts to extrapolate reliable information from anecdotal reports because there are so many particular, more or less for now, mostly temporary practices, affecting the process. For those who tend to put too much weight on anecdotal reports (this happened to me so this is how it works, which is not a reliable inference at all), this has made those inferences all the more unreliable. But of course for those of us who are continually trying to follow and stay updated about how things actually work, of course the anecdotal reports are still an important resource, IF, a BIG IF, they are appropriately understood in context with other known information.
If and when the version of the GCMS record shared with clients shows this or that clearance completed, that in contrast illuminates near nothing.
This is a big tangent from the primary object of this thread. And again, in no way do I mean to discourage or detract from sincere activist efforts.
But it is important for most applicants to not get discouraged. Or at least no more than they already are due to how slow it is Keep up the activism, be that via tweet or email, organizing for those with the skills and time and motivation. But there is little need to be continually chasing news about progress in one's own case. Watch eCas. Trackers. Monitor email and paper mail. If something seems awry, sometimes make a call centre inquiry (mostly all that accomplishes is confirmation the application is still in process, more or less still on track or "normal," unless there has been some request or such the applicant needs to respond to), or a webform inquiry. On the individual level, unless something else appears to be going on, that's mostly all individual applicants need to do for themselves.
And otherwise, engage in the activism according to personal choice.
All 2019 (and earlier) applicants, do raise your voice on Twitter as well.
Please like, retweet using the below link:
Do remember to include #2019citizenshipapplicantsmatter in your tweets!
Do remember to include #2019citizenshipapplicantsmatter in your tweets!
and as advised by CaBeaver, do add @SeanFraserMP as well
Please like, retweet using the below link:
Do remember to include #2019citizenshipapplicantsmatter in your tweets!
Please like, retweet using the below link:
Do remember to include #2019citizenshipapplicantsmatter in your tweets!
and as advised by CaBeaver, do add @SeanFraserMP as well
My call was answered by a very nice agent (though what he told me about my specific file was useless, and he claimed that the information that 2021 ppl got oaths was unreliable, but he was nice in terms of personality), and he explained to me that files go from agent to agent. That is, when an agent wraps up a stage for a file, the file goes to another agent responsible for the next stage.
Thank you! I am glad you were able to talk to an agent who was sympathetic to the situation.
Concerning the supplementary information that was requested for my travels, I hope this means that the evidence I sent will be evaluated by the same agent who requested it, but I obviously do not know how long it might take for them to validate it. I'd like to think it will be relatively quick as they did go and update language and prohibitions... only missing the physical presence verification.
Thanks again
I would raise a webform and order ATIP notes. You haven't received even the test. But your BG check seems to have taken a long time, which makes me think maybe your file is non-routine. You will know that from the notes.Does anyone whose file was in Mississauga processing centre get any update recently? I got AOR in Nov.2019, background check completed in Mar.2021. Since then, there is no further update. Fell hopeless
Bu the way, now webform standard replies include applications for parents and grandparents as good reason for IRCC to reply. In other words, they are prioritizing every other applications category on Earth except citizenship 2019 applicants. We are not in their calculations at all. And I have the feeling that they even take revenge of those who mentions the fact that 2019 applicants are left behind to them.