Spouse sponsorship

[Justin@123]

Hi everyone,
I have been outside of Canada for 5 years and just came back to Canada for 5 months. I came back with PRTD R-1 counterfoil but I apply for PRTD under H&C ground ( my wife lost her pregnancy for 2 times in 2020-2021. We finally have our first baby in late 2022 but my son’s health were not good at that time. He had to stay in hosiptal for months. After that, I have to take care both my wife and my son until 2024.) I am wondering if I am able to apply to renew my pr card ( expired) and apply to sponsor my spouse and my son. Because my son’s health is weak, i am worry my wife is not able to take care of him alone. I have order gcms notes and its been 30 days with no reply. I know that there are a lot of posts about this topic and most of recommendation is to wait 2 years before apply.
Thank you and appreciate very much for any advise and help.

 

[armoured]

-No-one can answer your question fully. Because you got the R-1, it's not clear on what basis it was granted.
-There are two risks for the early PR card app: first, it could end up with you losing your PR status. Second, it might just get delayed a long time (it will definitely take longer than a standard app, but we do not know if that is 6 mos or one year or more.)
-You should consider getting a consultation with a lawyer in advance of doing so (or two different lawyers). This does not necessarily mean that you need to hire a lawyer to do the application for you, but you should get informed.

I'd frame the question more or less as you did above: how risky it is to apply in advance given circumstances of the H&C app for PRTD and the R-1 issuance. Perhaps writing about spouse and child increases chnaces of success.

A warning: I'd be informed by the lawyer's input but be cautious - applying early will still not be risk free. If you do decide to apply early - before being in compliance - you should be prepared in advance that one possible outcome is that you would lose your PR status.

(I have my own guess about the riskiness that I'm purposefully leaving out - your circumstances are quite specific and the repercussions for you and your family important enough that you have to take the full responsibility. Anyone's guess is a guess. A lawyer's opinion shoudl get higher weighting but also not a guarantee.)

 

[Justin@123]

-No-one can answer your question fully. Because you got the R-1, it's not clear on what basis it was granted.
-There are two risks for the early PR card app: first, it could end up with you losing your PR status. Second, it might just get delayed a long time (it will definitely take longer than a standard app, but we do not know if that is 6 mos or one year or more.)
-You should consider getting a consultation with a lawyer in advance of doing so (or two different lawyers). This does not necessarily mean that you need to hire a lawyer to do the application for you, but you should get informed.

I'd frame the question more or less as you did above: how risky it is to apply in advance given circumstances of the H&C app for PRTD and the R-1 issuance. Perhaps writing about spouse and child increases chnaces of success.

A warning: I'd be informed by the lawyer's input but be cautious - applying early will still not be risk free. If you do decide to apply early - before being in compliance - you should be prepared in advance that one possible outcome is that you would lose your PR status.

(I have my own guess about the riskiness that I'm purposefully leaving out - your circumstances are quite specific and the repercussions for you and your family important enough that you have to take the full responsibility. Anyone's guess is a guess. A lawyer's opinion shoudl get higher weighting but also not a guarantee.)

Thank you for you advice.
- I remember you have commented recently that you believe that even R-1 is still available to apply for pr renew.
- IMO, it does not make sense that if one officer give a person a chance to come back to Canada and then an inland officer ask them to live without pr card or revoke their pr card when they try to apply renewal. People are required a pr card in order to renew a health card.
- I am considering to seek for a lawyer advise but I have read other post that the OP has seen 3 different lawyers ( 2 of them advise to apply and the other lawyer advise to wait). Therefore i am kind of lost right now.
- I think sponsoring a family is the best way to show them that we are intend to settle in Canada after the officer gave me a chance to come back.

Thank you

 

[armoured]

- I remember you have commented recently that you believe that even R-1 is still available to apply for pr renew.

I have opinions, yes. But my opinions are separate from the repercussions, which are potentially severe. I don't have much on the line.

Actual practice of what happens is thin enough on the ground that it's extremely difficult to make a judgment based on facts and data. This is why I urge caution and taking a decision carefully.

- IMO, it does not make sense that if one officer give a person a chance to come back to Canada and then an inland officer ask them to live without pr card or revoke their pr card when they try to apply renewal. People are required a pr card in order to renew a health card.

- I think sponsoring a family is the best way to show them that we are intend to settle in Canada after the officer gave me a chance to come back.

It's easy for an applicant to convince themselves of the logic from their own point of view. Which is not saying that your points are wrong, but that IRCC's 'logic' may not be the same.

- I am considering to seek for a lawyer advise but I have read other post that the OP has seen 3 different lawyers ( 2 of them advise to apply and the other lawyer advise to wait). Therefore i am kind of lost right now.

I think the utility of speaking to a lawyer in this instance - amongst other things - is to determine not just their advice, but their experience (have they seen cases like this?), and - very important - what steps available afterwards (if things are not looking favourable) and how to determine chances and options.

But on a different level - two out of three (should that be the advice you get) gives some indication of what professionals think.

Another point is to understand how/if your case differs from others, and which steps you can take in applying to maximize chances (if you're to make arguments, how to make them). A lawyer - for example - might suggest all the emphasis should be on fact that (in effect) an H&C decision was already made. They might suggest ordering GCMS notes in advance to see if more can be gleaned (and how to make that GCMS request so as to get the most/best info).

Or they might suggest not mentioning the intended sponsorship app, or to make the sponsorship app without applying for PR card renewal first.

Etc.

 

[Justin@123]

I have opinions, yes. But my opinions are separate from the repercussions, which are potentially severe. I don't have much on the line.

Actual practice of what happens is thin enough on the ground that it's extremely difficult to make a judgment based on facts and data. This is why I urge caution and taking a decision carefully.



It's easy for an applicant to convince themselves of the logic from their own point of view. Which is not saying that your points are wrong, but that IRCC's 'logic' may not be the same.



I think the utility of speaking to a lawyer in this instance - amongst other things - is to determine not just their advice, but their experience (have they seen cases like this?), and - very important - what steps available afterwards (if things are not looking favourable) and how to determine chances and options.

But on a different level - two out of three (should that be the advice you get) gives some indication of what professionals think.

Another point is to understand how/if your case differs from others, and which steps you can take in applying to maximize chances (if you're to make arguments, how to make them). A lawyer - for example - might suggest all the emphasis should be on fact that (in effect) an H&C decision was already made. They might suggest ordering GCMS notes in advance to see if more can be gleaned (and how to make that GCMS request so as to get the most/best info).

Or they might suggest not mentioning the intended sponsorship app, or to make the sponsorship app without applying for PR card renewal first.

Etc.

I totally agree with you, the thing is that I think I wont be able to wait 2 years to apply sponsorship and wait another 1-2 years processing time. I already order GCMS notes but I got no reply up to now ( 30 days). I am thinking to apply for sponsor app first because I cannot leave Canada even if I get a new pr card. Therefore renewing pr card is not my priority. I just want to apply to sponsor my family while i am waiting for 2 years to renew pr. In this way, it saves a lot of time for me. Thank you

 

[armoured]

I totally agree with you, the thing is that I think I wont be able to wait 2 years to apply sponsorship and wait another 1-2 years processing time. I already order GCMS notes but I got no reply up to now ( 30 days). I am thinking to apply for sponsor app first because I cannot leave Canada even if I get a new pr card. Therefore renewing pr card is not my priority. I just want to apply to sponsor my family while i am waiting for 2 years to renew pr. In this way, it saves a lot of time for me. Thank you

If you decide that you cannot wait, and you are willing to take that risk - your decision. All we can say - again - is that it is not without risk, and guesses about how much risk are just that.

I'd still encourage you to consider discussing with a lawyer, so that if you decide to go that route, you have input and guidance on how to do so (i.e. if that can help reduce your risk).

For example, considering whether or not to apply in sequence by applying for PR card or to sponsor your spouse and child first or to do both at the same time are potentially consequential. I do not know which approach is better.

 

[Justin@123]

If you decide that you cannot wait, and you are willing to take that risk - your decision. All we can say - again - is that it is not without risk, and guesses about how much risk are just that.

I'd still encourage you to consider discussing with a lawyer, so that if you decide to go that route, you have input and guidance on how to do so (i.e. if that can help reduce your risk).

For example, considering whether or not to apply in sequence by applying for PR card or to sponsor your spouse and child first or to do both at the same time are potentially consequential. I do not know which approach is better.

I understand what you are sharing with me. If my PRTD was granted under H&C ground, does it allow me to apply right away? Btw, is there any other way we can get gcms notes because its been 30 days without reply. If you know any reputation lawyer, could you please introduce him/her to me?
thank you very much

 

[canuck78]

I understand what you are sharing with me. If my PRTD was granted under H&C ground, does it allow me to apply right away? Btw, is there any other way we can get gcms notes because its been 30 days without reply. If you know any reputation lawyer, could you please introduce him/her to me?
thank you very much

30 days is just a target not a guarantee. All you can do is wait.

 

[armoured]

30 days is just a target not a guarantee. All you can do is wait.

This is not true. It's not a 'target', and it's not a service standard, it is a period set by law in the privacy act:
https://www.canada.ca/en/taxpayers-ombudsperson/programs/reports-publications/special-reports/acting-atip.html (this is not on topic as a different agency but nonetheless - it makes it clear this is by law).

They have 30 days to provide the atip report, although they can write to advise of need for an additional 30 days (with reasons).

This does not mean that we can resolve it, and there are issues with delays in some cases.

But applicants can - and should! - complain. They can try their MP's offices, and they can write to the ATIP coordinators ( https://www.tbs-sct.canada.ca/ap/atip-aiprp/coord-eng.asp#I ), and they can try whatever else they wish to try such as writing to whatever other institution and person in government they can find.

This doesn't mean they'll get direct redress but sometimes it will speed things up, and when there are limits set by law, it should be treated as a real issue - but it won't be known unless the applicants complain.

Complain!

 

[Justin@123]

This is not true. It's not a 'target', and it's not a service standard, it is a period set by law in the privacy act:
https://www.canada.ca/en/taxpayers-ombudsperson/programs/reports-publications/special-reports/acting-atip.html (this is not on topic as a different agency but nonetheless - it makes it clear this is by law).

They have 30 days to provide the atip report, although they can write to advise of need for an additional 30 days (with reasons).

This does not mean that we can resolve it, and there are issues with delays in some cases.

But applicants can - and should! - complain. They can try their MP's offices, and they can write to the ATIP coordinators ( https://www.tbs-sct.canada.ca/ap/atip-aiprp/coord-eng.asp#I ), and they can try whatever else they wish to try such as writing to whatever other institution and person in government they can find.

This doesn't mean they'll get direct redress but sometimes it will speed things up, and when there are limits set by law, it should be treated as a real issue - but it won't be known unless the applicants complain.

Complain!

- Thank you, they dont send me any email that require more time. I will write my complain to see what is going on.
- When I request for gcms notes. I dont know my PRTD application file number. I just put the payment receipt number in request.
- Because I applied PRTD in my country and all they gave me just a tracking number and 2 weeks later they returned my passport with PRTD on it. Nothing else, therefore I dont know what is my file number. - There is a document number start with letter “G” show on my PRTD, but do not know if it is the file number.

- I will send email to them and give them the document number on my PRTD to see if it can help.

Thank you

 

[armoured]

- Thank you, they dont send me any email that require more time. I will write my complain to see what is going on.
- When I request for gcms notes. I dont know my PRTD application file number. I just put the payment receipt number in request.
- Because I applied PRTD in my country and all they gave me just a tracking number and 2 weeks later they returned my passport with PRTD on it. Nothing else, therefore I dont know what is my file number. - There is a document number start with letter “G” show on my PRTD, but do not know if it is the file number.

- I will send email to them and give them the document number on my PRTD to see if it can help.

Thank you

Another approach to take is to request ALL files related to your UCI# (same as your PR#).

 

[canuck78]

This is not true. It's not a 'target', and it's not a service standard, it is a period set by law in the privacy act:
https://www.canada.ca/en/taxpayers-ombudsperson/programs/reports-publications/special-reports/acting-atip.html (this is not on topic as a different agency but nonetheless - it makes it clear this is by law).

They have 30 days to provide the atip report, although they can write to advise of need for an additional 30 days (with reasons).

This does not mean that we can resolve it, and there are issues with delays in some cases.

But applicants can - and should! - complain. They can try their MP's offices, and they can write to the ATIP coordinators ( https://www.tbs-sct.canada.ca/ap/atip-aiprp/coord-eng.asp#I ), and they can try whatever else they wish to try such as writing to whatever other institution and person in government they can find.

This doesn't mean they'll get direct redress but sometimes it will speed things up, and when there are limits set by law, it should be treated as a real issue - but it won't be known unless the applicants complain.

Complain!

There is always some grace time for things like mail delivery which can vary greatly depending on where you live in Canada.

 

[armoured]

There is always some grace time for things like mail delivery which can vary greatly depending on where you live in Canada.

What in heck are you talking about? They return the ATIP requests by email. There's no 'mail delay' exemption for responses they send by email.

Here's an example from another thread: complain and gets some response.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/october-2024-citizenship-applications.857730/post-11045322

 

[Justin@123]

-No-one can answer your question fully. Because you got the R-1, it's not clear on what basis it was granted.
-There are two risks for the early PR card app: first, it could end up with you losing your PR status. Second, it might just get delayed a long time (it will definitely take longer than a standard app, but we do not know if that is 6 mos or one year or more.)
-You should consider getting a consultation with a lawyer in advance of doing so (or two different lawyers). This does not necessarily mean that you need to hire a lawyer to do the application for you, but you should get informed.

I'd frame the question more or less as you did above: how risky it is to apply in advance given circumstances of the H&C app for PRTD and the R-1 issuance. Perhaps writing about spouse and child increases chnaces of success.

A warning: I'd be informed by the lawyer's input but be cautious - applying early will still not be risk free. If you do decide to apply early - before being in compliance - you should be prepared in advance that one possible outcome is that you would lose your PR status.

(I have my own guess about the riskiness that I'm purposefully leaving out - your circumstances are quite specific and the repercussions for you and your family important enough that you have to take the full responsibility. Anyone's guess is a guess. A lawyer's opinion shoudl get higher weighting but also not a guarantee.)

Hi Amoured,
I got Gcms notes say that my PRTD was granted on H&C basis. Does that make any different if I am gonna sponsor my family prior waiting 2 years +. (Probably 1 year from the day I came back to Canada because I need to work).
- BTW, how long I have to work in order to meet financial requirements for sponsorship? I have some saving in bank account (~ 20k). My wife have some saving in her account as well.
- Can I sponsor by using expired PR card?

Thank you.

 

[armoured]

Hi Amoured,
I got Gcms notes say that my PRTD was granted on H&C basis. Does that make any different if I am gonna sponsor my family prior waiting 2 years +. (Probably 1 year from the day I came back to Canada because I need to work).
- BTW, how long I have to work in order to meet financial requirements for sponsorship? I have some saving in bank account (~ 20k). My wife have some saving in her account as well.
- Can I sponsor by using expired PR card?

Thank you.

My comments here with modest caution, you should also post to the residency obligation section / sub-forum, where these issues come up more often.

-I think the info you got from GCMS notes is VERY important, that it means there is very little risk in applying for the new PR card and spousal sponsorship. I don't think there is any need to wait now that you have this.
-No specific requirements for work or financial situation.
-You do not need to have a PR card. The PRTD should be enough. I would try somehow to include info / statement that you received H&C PRTD. But I don't know how to do that exactly. It would be a bit odd to include copies of gcms notes, but also, nothing necessarily wrong with doing so.