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Algerians mom and son refugee turned citizen.

Lesabricots

Newbie
Mar 28, 2025
7
1
Hi i want to share with you my story
I entered Canada in 2017 and applied for refugee.
Long story short my asylum was based on fear of persecution due to religious beliefs .
I am female i was born in Algeria to a muslim family . I myself was muslim like most algerians which is known as an islamic state.
My former husband was an imam( priest in a known mosquee ) we found out through sources that our son quit islam .
My husband along with other algerians islamists tried to kill him for his apostasy and he asked to prepare a coup.
I immediately told my son about it and we successfully escaped to Morocco which is safer and more open . So basically we werent persecuted by the state itself
Back then in 2017 our asylum was successfully approved and two years ago we turned citizen
Last year my husband died and now because of financial crisis we would like to return to algeria i have assets and need to manage inheritance i could do better financially staying there.
Is it a problem returning to algeria and staying there for extended periods of time( 1 year ++ )
Any leads are welcome
 

hawk39

Hero Member
Mar 26, 2017
698
292
Hi i want to share with you my story
I entered Canada in 2017 and applied for refugee.
Long story short my asylum was based on fear of persecution due to religious beliefs .
I am female i was born in Algeria to a muslim family . I myself was muslim like most algerians which is known as an islamic state.
My former husband was an imam( priest in a known mosquee ) we found out through sources that our son quit islam .
My husband along with other algerians islamists tried to kill him for his apostasy and he asked to prepare a coup.
I immediately told my son about it and we successfully escaped to Morocco which is safer and more open . So basically we werent persecuted by the state itself
Back then in 2017 our asylum was successfully approved and two years ago we turned citizen
Last year my husband died and now because of financial crisis we would like to return to algeria i have assets and need to manage inheritance i could do better financially staying there.
Is it a problem returning to algeria and staying there for extended periods of time( 1 year ++ )
Any leads are welcome
I would suggest that you verify your statuses in Algeria, whether you and your son are still considered citizens under Algerian law. If you both are still considered citizens of Algeria, then both of you could be arrested and prosecuted under Algerian law, and under the Master Nationality Rule, Canada may not be able to assist you.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,705
9,880
Is it a problem returning to algeria and staying there for extended periods of time( 1 year ++ )
Any leads are welcome
You are a citizen of Canada and free to leave, return, etc., as you wish.

BUT: you should assume that Canada can do very little or nothing to protect or help you in Algeria, if Algeria still considers you a citizen. Hence 'at your own risk.'

Or put differently, it may not be recommended (travel advisories are there for a reason), but no-one is going to stop you, either.
 

xichanmontreal

Star Member
Nov 26, 2018
136
55
You are a citizen of Canada and free to leave, return, etc., as you wish.

BUT: you should assume that Canada can do very little or nothing to protect or help you in Algeria, if Algeria still considers you a citizen. Hence 'at your own risk.'

Or put differently, it may not be recommended (travel advisories are there for a reason), but no-one is going to stop you, either.
Yes and no. You are both right and wrong. Allow me to explain:

Indeed, although "legitimate" (in the sense that it will not pose any problem for the former refugee's status, especially if there has been no fraud during their entire immigration history), and although, in fact, the former refugee makes this decision (to return to the country that initially caused the danger, and which resulted in protection in Canada under the 1951 Convention) at their own risk (and the countries of origin, often Third World and non-democratic countries), consider their native-born citizens as citizens for life, even if they acquire other nationalities from more civilized countries and "powerful" passports. Also, these countries often don't allow people to voluntarily renounce their nationality... And they use it as a "Trojan horse" to always have an option to prosecute and imprison exiles or former refugees upon their return to these countries. Algeria and Morocco, for example. It's impossible to lose this calamity that sticks people until their death.

Then, the other point I disagree with and which annoys me:

@armoured is absolutely right in saying that Canada couldn't protect these citizens in the event of problems in their home countries, particularly arrest. This is nonsense. There shouldn't be categories of citizens; we're not second-tier citizens. Legally, all Canadians are equal, and have the same duties and rights...

The right to consular assistance is one of them.

But it's sad to see that Canada, on its official website states the following:

( See here : https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/emergency-info/consular/canadian-consular-services-charter ).

"If you are a dual citizen and traveling in the other country where you hold citizenship, local authorities may refuse to grant you access to Canadian consular services, thereby preventing Canadian consular officers from providing you with those services. See Traveling as a Dual Citizen for more information."

And even in the small print notes in the passport, there is a paragraph suggesting that consular protection could be restricted in cases of dual citizenship.

All of this outrages me: Are we second-class citizens? ... This shouldn't exist, and is against the laws and the Canadian Charter (Constitution).
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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9,880
@armoured is absolutely right in saying that Canada couldn't protect these citizens in the event of problems in their home countries, particularly arrest. This is nonsense. There shouldn't be categories of citizens; we're not second-tier citizens. Legally, all Canadians are equal, and have the same duties and rights...

The right to consular assistance is one of them.

But it's sad to see that Canada, on its official website states the following:

( See here : https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/emergency-info/consular/canadian-consular-services-charter ).

"If you are a dual citizen and traveling in the other country where you hold citizenship, local authorities may refuse to grant you access to Canadian consular services, thereby preventing Canadian consular officers from providing you with those services. See Traveling as a Dual Citizen for more information."

And even in the small print notes in the passport, there is a paragraph suggesting that consular protection could be restricted in cases of dual citizenship.

All of this outrages me: Are we second-class citizens? ... This shouldn't exist, and is against the laws and the Canadian Charter (Constitution).
You have both misinterpreted the specifics and missed the entire point. No-one denies that Canadian citizens all should have equal rights and treatment with respect to government services. This includes to consular services.

But the key point you are eliding in your discussion above: the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms does NOT apply to other governments. Canada has - by treaty/international law with other countries - only specific and quite limited* consular rights, which are defined. (Note, I'm using the term 'consular rights' here very loosely, this is not the same usage as in the Canadian charter.) Canada cannot insist that other countries apply the Charter - or indeed Canadian law in general.

And as has been explained separately, by international law, countries have no consular rights with respect to their citizens (eg Canada with respect to Cdn citizens) in a country where that Canadian also holds citizenship. Literally Canada can only request to be allowed to assist (provide consular services). It's so clear that this is not a right that it's (informally but consistently) referred to as simply a 'courtesy.'

The host country (host meaning in which Canada has embassy/consulate) can simply refuse, ignore, etc., by making reference to international law**; they are 100% 'in their right' (legally) to refuse. They do not even have to 'recognize' in any way that you are a Canadian citizen - if their domestic laws say it's not a thing ...then as far as they are concerned, you are simply NOT a Canadian citizen. (Separate story but Canadian law mostly doesn't recognize other nationalities, either - but Canada typically extends the consular courtesies on request.)

That's the entire meaning. That's the sense in which they say (on the inside back page of the Canadian passport) this [other nationality] 'may limit the ability of the Government of Canada to provide you with consular service.'

Canada is not denying you anything - they will ask for consular access and the like (and they often try quite hard) - but Canada has no right to do so (again: Canadian law and charter of rights and freedoms don't apply to other countries).

You can be angry about this. You can yell at the clouds, too. But it does not make sense to be mad at the Canadian government about it, and any argument that Canada is violating your rights or making you a second-class citizen is misplaced. Criticize that other government.

This is why I wrote in short, simple terms: if you (anyone, but obviously more relevant to former protected persons) return to your country of origin, you should assume the Canadian government cannot help you. To assume anything else would be dangerous. For anyone who knows about it to suggest otherwise would be malpractice.

Again, if that country considers you a citizen and chooses to prosecute you criminally or otherwise: Canada can do nothing, legally.

* Consular assistance: it should go without saying that there are other warnings in the passport to heed. As a Canadian in any other country, you're not immune from local laws. And most importantly, people massively overestimate what consular assistance means and how much it can help. Consular assistance is extremely limited in practice, even where it is recognized. For criminally related matters, it mostly is limited to right to visit from time to time, and right to assist in ensuring that the subject is treated *no more badly* (eg in court trials, detention conditions) than anyone else in the country.

** This is sometimes referred to the Master Nationality Rule, a phrase I dislike personally (as it implies for some that one nationality is more 'important', when reality is quite different - the other nationality is simply not recognized); plus in my own experience, the term is just not used much. But as a shorthand, whatever, the principle remains the same: host country does not have to recognize other nationalities of its citizens. This is considered established [customary] international law.
 

xichanmontreal

Star Member
Nov 26, 2018
136
55
I agree with most of what you say, and the risk is serious in the event of such a return: I myself have not done so, and I never intend to, even after more than 15 years in this beautiful country that is now mine, Canada!

For example, to stick with the example of the Maghreb countries (North Africa) like the one mentioned in the article, a group of Moroccan Rif activists (*A separatist group in northern Morocco, in the Rif region), who are Dutch citizens, have launched legal proceedings against the Moroccan government in the Dutch courts to force the Moroccan government to revoke their Moroccan nationality (and thus, if they return to visit their families in Morocco, risk, in the worst case scenario, a refusal of residence and a return flight to Holland). The Dutch courts had declared themselves incompetent to hear the case. Morocco has always refused to do so, as I explained above, like most non-democratic Third World countries, in order to keep a sword of Damocles hanging over citizens who are either deciduous or "annoying" to those countries, and thus always preserve the possibility of persecuting people from those countries.

Have you ever seen the paragraph in question I mentioned, which is found in the footnotes, on the last pages of the passport?

It's worded differently than on the website.

Let me find the exact wording: You will be able to judge to what extent this wording gives the impression that dual citizens are considered second-class Canadian citizens.

See here, the last paragraph at the bottom left, "be aware" (Zoom in by hovering over the area)

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/CAN-AO-04001/image-268732.html

I'm not angry about this...

I'm simply saying that the Canadian government must defend its people, ALL OF ITS PEOPLE, with the same strength and vigor, and not slow down when the Canadian citizen in question has a second citizenship... Whatever their origins, whether their citizenship is by birth or acquired... Whether they are called "John", Eric, Salman, Xi, Chen, Katunga, or whatever the connotation or origin of their names, their second nationality or not.

I completely understand your point: Non-democratic third-world countries can restrict Canada's ability to provide consular assistance... But that shouldn't prevent our country's diplomatic missions from doing their utmost to assist all citizens, whoever they may be.

I love my country, and I aspire for it to have strong consular assistance, if not among the strongest in the world... I'm thinking of those countries with powerful diplomatic networks around the world. Particularly France (the largest network of embassies and consulates in the world), the United States...

Isn't it legitimate to aspire to the best for the country you love?
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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9,880
Have you ever seen the paragraph in question I mentioned, which is found in the footnotes, on the last pages of the passport?

It's worded differently than on the website.

Let me find the exact wording: You will be able to judge to what extent this wording gives the impression that dual citizens are considered second-class Canadian citizens.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/CAN-AO-04001/image-268732.html

Here's the text for others:
Be Aware
If you hold more than one natioanlity, you should be aware that your Canadian citizenship may not be recognized by the country of your other nationality, which may limit the ability of the Government of Canada to provide you with consular assistance.
Yes. I quoted from it too. No, it does not give me the impression duals are second-class citizens. So much so that I do not understand how you got that impression. It's a neutral, factual text kept simple for reading.

I'm simply saying that the Canadian government must defend its people, ALL OF ITS PEOPLE, , with the same strength and vigor, and not slow down
Okay. I agree with this. But again: any inference you make here that efforts are not being made 'equally' etc has to recognize that even with the same 'strength and vigour', that their efforts are constrained by that other government's policies.

I completely understand your point: Non-democratic third-world countries can restrict Canada's ability to provide consular assistance... But that shouldn't prevent our country's diplomatic missions from doing their utmost to assist all citizens, whoever they may be.
But it does actually and legally prevent our missions from doing all that they can. It's easy to throw around allegations that they're not trying 'hard enough'. But there are limitations on what they can do.

Now, note that your argument is shifting: it's becoming increasingly a generic 'Canada should do more and better consular service', with increasingly little about the issue that is at hand here - what matters for dual citizens is the difference between what is possible in different cases.

I love my country, and I aspire for it to have strong consular assistance, if not among the strongest in the world... I'm thinking of those countries with powerful diplomatic networks around the world. Particularly France (the largest network of embassies and consulates in the world), the United States...
Sure. I am a strong supporter of better funding for our diplomatic services and everything related; successive governments of both parties have not done as much as I'd like in this area (and some periodically cut it off at the knees or continuously criticize most foreign spending).

I don't think the way to get there is to put the emphasis on the issue with dual citizens and consular services; I think that's a loser politically. I also disagree with you on the substance, of course, so I'm biased - I don't think there's a lack of desire or effort to assist, only practical and legal limitations.

Note, I'm not suggesting approval of that being a 'political loser' as I put it - just what I see as a factual political analysis.

As for actual support to citizens abroad: there are related political arguments (different topic of course) that relate to how the public sees consular service to Canadians that they perceive as 'passport holders of convenience.' Funding and improved diplomatic / consular coverage that is seen to go to help Canadians who (are perceived to) no longer have many ties to Canada - also a loser, whether we like it or not.

I'd even suggest that there is a risk of more severe limitations / stricter requirements on getting Canadian citizenship and conditions for keeping it / access to some services. There are some parts of one party's platform that hint at changes in that direction.
 

xichanmontreal

Star Member
Nov 26, 2018
136
55
As for actual support to citizens abroad: there are related political arguments (different topic of course) that relate to how the public sees consular service to Canadians that they perceive as 'passport holders of convenience.' Funding and improved diplomatic / consular coverage that is seen to go to help Canadians who (are perceived to) no longer have many ties to Canada - also a loser, whether we like it or not.

I'd even suggest that there is a risk of more severe limitations / stricter requirements on getting Canadian citizenship and conditions for keeping it / access to some services. There are some parts of one party's platform that hint at changes in that direction.

I understand your analysis once again; you're not factually wrong in these last two paragraphs... But that's why I always like to remind you that we live in a country where the rule of law applies!

The Conservatives of their time, for example, I remember (I was there), tried to restrict access to the interim health program for asylum seekers: A federal court overturned this decision... The same thing happened with a discriminatory list of "safe third" countries; a federal court called the government to order and ordered it to continue analyzing cases regardless of the applicant's origin, without discrimination based on nationality of origin...

There is also the standard of deference (a little more technical), for example, of the Refugee Appeal Division... The Supreme Court, I believe, required the division to adopt a complete analysis of the submitted files, rather than a review of only "correct and reasonable decisions" for cases submitted to the specialized tribunal: The role of the federal court, which conducts judicial review, should not be duplicated.

In short, Canada is a state governed by the rule of law, and where the rule of law is effective.

I would be curious to see if there are any cases in the case law of Canadians who have obtained a positive decision from the courtt after legal action against the government for lack of consular assistance.

Aside from the case of Omar Khadr, which comes to mind, although it is not strictly a case of non-provision of consular assistance, a little different, it is the closest case: In the end, he pocketed millions of dollars in compensation from the court.

All this to say that the conservative perspective should not be frightening in a developed and democratic country like ours, where the rule of law and the independence of the courts are respected.
 
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armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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I understand your analysis once again; you're not factually wrong in these last two paragraphs... But that's why I always like to remind you that we live in a country where the rule of law applies!
I'll leave to the side why you might feel that I specifically need reminding of that...

tried to restrict access to the interim health program for asylum seekers
...
There is also the standard of deference (a little more technical), for example, of the Refugee Appeal Division...
...
In short, Canada is a state governed by the rule of law, and where the rule of law is effective.
Agree. I just don't believe this is that case. This is the government reminding Canadians of the limitations on helping them abroad. Canadians in different circumstances face different risks and challenges abroad; informing Canadians of those risks is not discriminatory. And remember: you brought up the Charter issue, and again - since you bring up law - Canada cannot enforce Canadian law abroad. That's the fundamental issue.

BTW: here's the consular page on dual citizens. I find it pretty neutral. https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents/dual-citizenship

If anything, I think Canadians (overall) are overly naive and often even deluded about the state of the world and the risks out there. And need more focussed and blunt warnings about these things. There sometimes seems to be a fantasy world in people's heads where they can go abroad and be 'protected' by Canada in ways that are simply ... fanciful. Or other examples of expecting things will be simple/easy abroad because they are Canadian.

I would be curious to see if there are any cases in the case law of Canadians who have obtained a positive decision from the courtt after legal action against the government for lack of consular assistance.
Sure. I'd say that's a challenge. Among other things, consular services provision is essentially 'best efforts' basis only. A hard bar to meet. But a discrimination case would face fewer challenges overall. (While I'm not of the belief that the lack of any successful cases means ipso facto that there is no discrimination, the lack even of any known cases being filed - that I'm aware of - may indicate something.)

That said, I think I'm at least a bit of a realist - I've no doubt that there are or have been cases where dual citizens have received (in some way) less support than could have been provided. It's simply inevitable. (True also, likely, for other individuals, too). Those who provide consular services make judgments in difficult circumstances, with insufficient information, limited resources, etc - including what efforts are rational and effective to make (trade-offs). Those needing consular services differ as well: some have cases that will be seen as more 'deserving' of assistance, for various reasons.

For example: does everyone think that adjudicated (convicted) murderers are equally deserving of consular assistance? Drug traffickers? Well, it's policy of the federal government to actively lobby against the death penalty for Canadians, and some of those individuals are not sympathetic figures. This cuts both ways: some in Canada will think this is incredibly important (because they're very opposed to the death penalty), and some will think that this is using resources to help 'bad people.' (And of course this is before we even get to the question of whether the legal system is considered fair in that country or not).

Aside from the case of Omar Khadr, which comes to mind, although it is not strictly a case of non-provision of consular assistance, a little different, it is the closest case: In the end, he pocketed millions of dollars in compensation from the court.
An utterly shameful case. I admit I don't think of it as a consular case, but that is one lens in which I should perhaps consider it.

There are other cases abroad that are incredibly morally challenging, from either perspective. My point only being: it is inevitable that there will be disagreements about what/how much/what choices are made/what resources are devoted to these consular cases.