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Travel right after citizenship ceremony

SomeoneAsking

Star Member
Nov 22, 2018
82
45
Hello,

I just found out my citizenship ceremony is on the March 6, but I’m travelling out of Canada on March 7? Since my PR card will be destroyed, how can I return to Canada? I literally have 1 day to get a Canadian passport and I don’t know if it’s feasible.

At first I thought I could probably use the certificate to come back in, but apparently it’s not accepted as a travel document.

Any advice on what to do will be appreciated!
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,582
9,793
Hello,

I just found out my citizenship ceremony is on the March 6, but I’m travelling out of Canada on March 7? Since my PR card will be destroyed, how can I return to Canada? I literally have 1 day to get a Canadian passport and I don’t know if it’s feasible.

At first I thought I could probably use the certificate to come back in, but apparently it’s not accepted as a travel document.

Any advice on what to do will be appreciated!
You can either go and get a passport done urgently, apply for one abroad, or travel through land border (via USA that is).

If you have an ETA-eligible passport (i.e. visa exemption), there is a special authorization possible for urgent cases:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/dual-canadian-citizens-visit-canada.html#findOut

US passport holders don't need this at all.
 

SomeoneAsking

Star Member
Nov 22, 2018
82
45
I was reading online, and 1 day might not be enough time to for urgent processing of passport. If I use land border instead, do I dhow them the certificate of citizenship to be allowed in?
 

lifein360

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Jan 23, 2016
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Hello,

I just found out my citizenship ceremony is on the March 6, but I’m travelling out of Canada on March 7? Since my PR card will be destroyed, how can I return to Canada? I literally have 1 day to get a Canadian passport and I don’t know if it’s feasible.

At first I thought I could probably use the certificate to come back in, but apparently it’s not accepted as a travel document.

Any advice on what to do will be appreciated!
If you have to travel on Mar 7, i would recommend postponing the ceremony. No way you can get a passport this soon
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,582
9,793
If you have to travel on Mar 7, i would recommend postponing the ceremony. No way you can get a passport this soon
Yes, it's worth noting that fastest service they offer is end of next business day.

But there are other options: since one can depart Canada on any valid passport, it's only the return that matters. Options are basically:
-delay departure until one can get the passport (check about weekends, I don't know about this).
-return via a land border (Canadian passport needed to return by air, not land).
-apply for passport abroad (timing may not work though).
-special authorization (if one's passport is for a visa-free country).

(These are all the options I can think of but perhaps there are others)
 

abff08f4813c

Star Member
Feb 24, 2023
126
19
You can either go and get a passport done urgently, apply for one abroad, or travel through land border (via USA that is).

If you have an ETA-eligible passport (i.e. visa exemption), there is a special authorization possible for urgent cases:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/dual-canadian-citizens-visit-canada.html#findOut

US passport holders don't need this at all.
The wording of that is
  • are not a Canadian-American dual citizen
Which suggests to me someone who had dual citizenship and recently became Canadian (say an Irish American who made it to Canada for example) wouldn't be eligible for this. Which is fine as they could use their US passport most of the time but ... if they're unlucky enough to be in the same position as OP and also realized that they forgot to renew the US one and only have the Irish passport...
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,582
9,793
The wording of that is


Which suggests to me someone who had dual citizenship and recently became Canadian (say an Irish American who made it to Canada for example) wouldn't be eligible for this. Which is fine as they could use their US passport most of the time but ... if they're unlucky enough to be in the same position as OP and also realized that they forgot to renew the US one and only have the Irish passport...
I think the meaning is pretty simple: US passport holders are not eligible for these special authorizations because they do not need one.

I doubt it's been thought through as a specific corner case "what about US passport holders who also have another visa waiver passport." Or for that matter, other multiple-citizenship cases. There's some things that aren't worth the effort to describe every possible state of the universe. (If I'm right then it would technically be more accurate to state this as those with valid US passports are not eligible...but it's a web page, not a legal document).

For your hypothetical US/Irish/Canadian dual citizen who doesn't have a Canadian or US passport but does have a valid Irish one and wants to apply for the special authorization: try it.

I doubt they then ask if you also have valid US passport, because they're not attempting to deny service to our hapless triple citizen who can't seem to get their passports straight: they just assume someone with the valid US passport wouldn't go through an extra step in the process and request a special authorization because that would be stupid.
 

abff08f4813c

Star Member
Feb 24, 2023
126
19
Thinking it over, you're absolutely right.

Applying an ETA on a valid US passport wouldn't make sense since the valid US passport wouldn't ever need it, and applying one on an invalid (expired/defaced/missing/etc) US passport wouldn't help because it wouldn't do anything to cure the invalidity.

But if the person presents a different passport from another country that does need an ETA, then likely there'd be no issue to getting a special authorization (aside from the usual).

I was curious about this so I dug further, and under 7.1(3)(b) of the regulations ( https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/page-2.html#docCont ) it simply refers to being "exempt from the requirement".

Exempt persons

(3) The following persons are exempt from the requirement to obtain an electronic travel authorization:
  • (b) a national of the United States or a person who has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence;

IANAL but the plain language suggests to me that there's no prohibition on granting an ETA to someone who is "a national of the United States". I.e. if you're able to present an Irish passport to receive the ETA, then there's no legal or regulatory requirement to deny that ETA solely by virtue of being a US citizen.

Getting off-topic here but this makes me wonder how easy it is for folks who have US green cards to get ETAs to Canada in general (because they misplaced their green card and just noticed right before the travel was to start).
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,582
9,793
IANAL but the plain language suggests to me that there's no prohibition on granting an ETA to someone who is "a national of the United States". I.e. if you're able to present an Irish passport to receive the ETA, then there's no legal or regulatory requirement to deny that ETA solely by virtue of being a US citizen.
Canadian law is, for the most part, entirely silent on the concept of dual or multiple citizenship. A lawyer acquaintance in the field says that the concept basically does not exist - or at least not defined clearly. (I'm not a lawyer so not going to try to defend this point, and my understanding could be out of date). So for the most part a Canadian is a Canadian citizen with respect to Canada, and your citizenships with other countries are, ahem, your own problem.

There are, though, obviously areas in which it is de facto recognized for specific purposes - like Canadian citizens who happen to also be US passport holders (as above), and the special authorization, and surely other areas too.

Getting off-topic here but this makes me wonder how easy it is for folks who have US green cards to get ETAs to Canada in general (because they misplaced their green card and just noticed right before the travel was to start).
I don't understand your question, the answer is in the text you quoted: "The following persons are exempt from the requirement to obtain an electronic travel authorization: (b) a national of the United States or a person who has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence." The bolded text means 'people who have green cards.' They don't need ETAs.

Now note: a Canadian citizen who is also a green card holder (and therefore by definition not a US citizen) will, I think, need a Canadian passport to board a plane. (Or the special authorization). The ETA text about green card holders is not the same thing as the requirement for Canadian citizens to use a Canadian passport - to which the only exception is for US passport holders.

(That said, i can't exclude that a green card holder/Canadian citizen might get let on a plane - although the system shouldn't let them).
 

abff08f4813c

Star Member
Feb 24, 2023
126
19
So for the most part a Canadian is a Canadian citizen with respect to Canada, and your citizenships with other countries are, ahem, your own problem.
Agreed.

I don't understand your question, the answer is in the text you quoted: "The following persons are exempt from the requirement to obtain an electronic travel authorization: (b) a national of the United States or a person who has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence." The bolded text means 'people who have green cards.'
Actually, to be pedantic here, there is a tiny difference. Same as with Canadian PR, one can theoretically let a green card expire while living in the country and still maintain the permanent resident status.

So that's the difference - a green card holder who e.g. lost the actual card the day before the flight or who has to travel with an expired green card is obviously in a worse position than the green card holder who has the card in hand while in-flight and while crossing the border/port of entry.

They don't need ETAs.
Agreed for those who have their valid green cards in hand - it's much easier and less trouble to travel with them than to get an ETA so no one would ever really want to do this. It's more of the edge cases ("I qualify to have that particular document because I have the status but it won't be ready in time and I can't delay my trip").

Now note: a Canadian citizen who is also a green card holder (and therefore by definition not a US citizen) will, I think, need a Canadian passport to board a plane. (Or the special authorization). The ETA text about green card holders is not the same thing as the requirement for Canadian citizens to use a Canadian passport - to which the only exception is for US passport holders.
Agreed. Anyways the green card isn't mentioned at all as a thing in regards to the special authorization, which at most seems to be concerned about US nationality. And it's not relevant if the Canadian doesn't have any other citizenship (can't get an ETA without a qualifying passport.)

(That said, i can't exclude that a green card holder/Canadian citizen might get let on a plane - although the system shouldn't let them).
Yeah, not sure how that would work for a mono Canadian citizen.

But for example, a dual Canadian-Irish citizen and US green card holder who didn't have their Canadian passport ready could presumably fly into Canada just using their Irish passport and US green card without even bothering with the special authorization route, unless there's something I'm not understanding. I mean there might be a bit of a talk with the border officials once one gets off the airplane, but I'd think that this would be enough to get onto the airplane.

And then a person who wasn't Canadian at all - just an Irishman with a US green card - but who didn't have his green card ready, could he apply for an ETA if he wanted to (e.g. since he lost his green card or because he forgot it had already expired) and then fly into Canada on that? Or would Canada somehow know about his green card and thus deny the ETA? (Of course, even then special authorization then still wouldn't apply here since this person doesn't have Canadian citizenship.)
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,582
9,793
Actually, to be pedantic here, there is a tiny difference.
Yes, your pedantic note is correct. I'm using shorthand for air travel that "it doesn't matter what status you hold if you don't have the required documents to prove it at the airport." Same for canadian citizens/passport holders.

But see below: you're spending time on corner cases and missing the main point.

But for example, a dual Canadian-Irish citizen and US green card holder who didn't have their Canadian passport ready could presumably fly into Canada just using their Irish passport and US green card without even bothering with the special authorization route, unless there's something I'm not understanding. I mean there might be a bit of a talk with the border officials once one gets off the airplane, but I'd think that this would be enough to get onto the airplane.

And then a person who wasn't Canadian at all - just an Irishman with a US green card - but who didn't have his green card ready, could he apply for an ETA if he wanted to (e.g. since he lost his green card or because he forgot it had already expired) and then fly into Canada on that? Or would Canada somehow know about his green card and thus deny the ETA? (Of course, even then special authorization then still wouldn't apply here since this person doesn't have Canadian citizenship.)
Your pedantry above is misplaced - you are missing a very important point.

A Canadian citizen [whose information is in the Canadian government's identifying databases]* will NOT be allowed to board a plane to Canada without a Canadian passport. That's the ENTIRE point of this discussion. They also are NOT eligible to get an ETA - it will be refused when they try to get one.

The only exceptions to this are Canadian citizens who are travelling on US passports - and those who get the special authorization above.

I don't think Canada gives a damn if an Irish citizen with a green card wants to apply for an ETA. I certainly don't.

* My caveat about 'whose information is in the government databases is important', but does not apply to most. The exceptions here might be those who are born abroad and not yet registered (which I refer to as 'presumptive citizens' - but it's a technical argument, they're citizens by right but if the Canadian government has no record of that, well, you see the point). Probably some born-in-Canada but travelling on a different passport and who have never applied for a passport or citizenship certificate. (As far as I'm aware, no, there's no automatic registration of newborns to some centralized citizenship database - and even if there is one now, it definitely does not apply to all those born in Canada and still alive).

And of course: any database system like this can have errors of various types. But it's pretty damn comprehensive and accurate, overall.

Make no mistake: except for these identified exceptions, Canadian citizens need a passport to board a plane to Canada.

[*Oh I know there's another big group that I don't know the nuances of, those covered under the Indian Act in Canada and some covred by the roughly-equivalent acts in USA. That's a whole separate special case, and can't be simplified into 'Canadian/USA citizens' so easily.]
 

abff08f4813c

Star Member
Feb 24, 2023
126
19
gives a damn if an Irish citizen with a green card wants to apply for an ETA. I certainly don't.
Fair.

you're spending time on corner cases and missing the main point.

Your pedantry above is misplaced - you are missing a very important point.

A Canadian citizen [whose information is in the Canadian government's identifying databases]* will NOT be allowed to board a plane to Canada without a Canadian passport. That's the ENTIRE point of this discussion. They also are NOT eligible to get an ETA - it will be refused when they try to get one.

The only exceptions to this are Canadian citizens who are travelling on US passports - and those who get the special authorization above.

Make no mistake: except for these identified exceptions, Canadian citizens need a passport to board a plane to Canada.
Hmm. I don't think that it's misplaced (though I'd agree with the corner cases bit) - it actually sounds like we disagree on a scenario here.

Normally, an Irish citizen with US PR can fly into Canada on just the Irish passport + US green card, no ETA required. The airline wouldn't know said person is also Canadian, and so would let this person onto the airplane.

The ETA requirement helps enforces the use of Canadian passports to fly into Canada. So if you don't need the ETA...

* My caveat about

And of course: any database system like this can have errors of various types. But it's pretty damn comprehensive and accurate, overall.
Good points. Agreed in full - and anyways if a person slips through because of a database error, it's an error, not something that should be legitmately relied on.

[*Oh I know there's another big group that I don't know the nuances of, those covered under the Indian Act in Canada and some covred by the roughly-equivalent acts in USA. That's a whole separate special case, and can't be simplified into 'Canadian/USA citizens' so easily.]
Interesting. Probably already gone too far off topic though... but good call out.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,582
9,793
Normally, an Irish citizen with US PR can fly into Canada on just the Irish passport + US green card, no ETA required. The airline wouldn't know said person is also Canadian, and so would let this person onto the airplane.
No, this is a mistaken assumption. The airlines now share passenger manifests with identifying information of all passengers. In simple terms, the airline will be informed by Canadian authorities that this person may not board the plane without a Canadian passport (or other Canadian allowed permission eg authorization).

One absolutely should not assume that just presenting other travel documents will be sufficient to avoid being identified as a citizen required to present a passport.

My point with the database comments: if this Irish-Canadian green card holder has had a Canadian passport or citizenship certificate in the last 20 years or so, 99+% will get a hit on the database.

At minimum they're using name + date of birth to identify, plus other fields presumably. They're actually quite good at this.
 

abff08f4813c

Star Member
Feb 24, 2023
126
19
No, this is a mistaken assumption. The airlines now share passenger manifests with identifying information of all passengers. In simple terms, the airline will be informed by Canadian authorities that this person may not board the plane without a Canadian passport (or other Canadian allowed permission eg authorization).
Interesting. That sounds right, actually.

My point with the database comments: if this Irish-Canadian green card holder has had a Canadian passport or citizenship certificate in the last 20 years or so, 99+% will get a hit on the database.

In simple terms, the airline will be informed by Canadian authorities that this person may not board the plane without a Canadian passport (or other Canadian allowed permission eg authorization).
Perhaps too simple... now I'm wondering how this works for dual US-Canadian citizens. Like, is the airline explicitly informed by the Canadian authorities that the person is a Canadian citizen but that the person may still board with the US passport, or is there simply no alert that goes off in the that case? Or is it that an alert goes off but the airlines just know to disregard it once they see the US passport? I'm leaning towards this last one, considering that there are airlines that sometimes refuse to let US citizens with Canadian PR board their airplanes without the PR card - which if correct, then would lead me to think that the airlines are being too restrictive for our Irish-Canadian GC holder.. but of course there's nothing illegal about airlines implementing requirements that are more restrictive than what Canada's own rules would allow.

Like, do Canadian-US dual citizens trigger hits on the database too (but the rules on resolving those hits are different) or does the system behind the database just not flag those potential hits at all?

One absolutely should not assume that just presenting other travel documents will be sufficient to avoid being identified as a citizen required to present a passport.
Yes, good advice. Of course this is more about convincing the airline - once you get to the POE and before a border officer then it's probably fairly easy for them to verify your status and you have a right to be let in.

At minimum they're using name + date of birth to identify, plus other fields presumably. They're actually quite good at this.
No disagreement here from me on this point.