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Would Not Meet RO - got Job in Ireland

jakklondon

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Great way to deflect, kudos. As you said earlier, if I feel something is not right, I will not pass by. I stand up to it.

So, again, if you can, please explain in 1-2 sentences what your point is.
You said you don't understand what my point is. Meaning, after reading all the posts I wrote and you replied to, you admit that you have no idea what you were replying to, or what my point is. After all this time further attempt to explain myself would be futile. Clearly, you have diffculty understanding written English, or you are just trolling me (and I will not teach you English nor cotninue to respond to trolling messages).
 
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IndianBos

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You said you don't understand what my point is. Meaning, after reading all the posts I wrote and you replied you , you admit that yoiu still don't know what you were replying to , or what my point is. After all this time further attempt to explain myself would be futile. Clearly you have diffculty understanding written English, or you are just trolling me (I will not teach you English or cotninue to respond to trolling messages).
I am not trying to troll you. Still trying to understand your intentions behind all the words you wrote above. And as long as you can understand my words, I don't mind writing bad English or even learn English from you. I can also use Google translate if I am not able to understand your fine English.

Asking you the third time, what is your purpose on this forum? For example, i am here to help others based on my experience, and get help. Is your purpose to help (which i see you do), but also share your negative experiences in Canada, share negative news and warn immigrants against immigrating? Because this thread is for RO Obligation, so they have already made that decision.
 

jakklondon

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I am not trying to troll you. Still trying to understand your intentions behind all the words you wrote above. And as long as you can understand my words, I don't mind writing bad English or even learn English from you. I can also use Google translate if I am not able to understand your fine English.

Asking you the third time, what is your purpose on this forum? For example, i am here to help others based on my experience, and get help. Is your purpose to help (which i see you do), but also share your negative experiences in Canada, share negative news and warn immigrants against immigrating? Because this thread is for RO Obligation, so they have already made that decision.
So, you are actually not interested in discussing the subject, but are interested in discussing my intentions and my persona. Like most people who can't argue their points on merits, you are resorting to ad hominems, it is a last straw of all demagogues.
 

IndianBos

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So, you are actually not interested in discussing the subject, but are interested in discussing my intentions and my persona. Like most people who can't argue their points on merits, you are resorting to ad hominems, it is a last straw of all demagogues.
Not your persona, only intention. I wanted to discuss the subject and asked you thrice what was your point. If you are unwilling to discuss that, then I tried to understand what you want to discuss on this forum (hence the intention). That would be the logical way.

Asking the 4th and the last time, what are you trying to discuss on this forum? It might be easier to say given you already replied thrice but never answered that question.
 

jakklondon

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PNP is based on skills needed in a province.
Don't know about PNP, can't comment.

FSWP is purely a points based system which leads to too many professionals in the wrong fields like dentists and pharmacists. There are supposed to be changes to the system to try to allow skills that are in need to be prioritized for immigration.
Agreed.

Job markets are ever evolving and there are a very long list of potential career/jobs so this is not as easy as you may think.
Not suggesting it's easy, especially projecting something into future based on current needs and market conditions. However, if after years of large influx of immigrants it's clear that there is no scarcity of their labor and no need to bring them in numbers they are being imported, one would think it's no brainer to reduce or stop further influx, until market absorbs those who are already present in Canada. What we see instead? Increase of immigration flow. Why act contrary to common sense and do what we already know will deliver adverse results? The only reason you would do this if you were serving exclusively large corporations, to the exclusion of ordinary citizens and immigrants. Because, latter are the ones who suffer. But corporations benefit, by having a huge pool of workers competing with each other and so desperate that you can hire the lowest bidder and leave everyone else high and dry.

Many immigrants seek degrees to try and match desired skills but on arrival want to work in another field so only accepting skills that are in need doesn’t mean that necessary get people wanting to work in that field.
They are free to do that, the beauty of PR status is the freedom it gives (unline non-immigrant H1b visa in the US). And those individuals, how they choose to settle and where to work, are not my concern. I am most of all concerned about MBAs or IT spesialists or analysts, with years of experience working in a large French, german, Indian or US corporation, arriving to Canada and not finding anything better than a shift at local warehouse. We know there are a lot of those people among landed PRs.
 
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canuck78

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Don't know about PNP, can't comment.



Agreed.



Not suggesting it's easy, especially projecting something into future based on current needs and market conditions. However, if after years of large influx of immigrants it's clear that there is no scarcity of their labor and no need to bring them in numbers they are being imported, one would think it's no brainer to reduce or stop further influx, until market absorbs those who are already present in Canada. What we see instead? Increase of immigration flow. Why act contrary to common sense and do what we already know will deliver adverse results? The only reason you would do this if you were serving exclusively large corporations, to the exclusion of ordinary citizens and immigrants. Because, latter are the ones who suffer. But corporations benefit, by having a huge pool of workers competing with each other and so desperate that you can hire the lowest bidder and leave everyone else high and dry.



They are free to do that, the beauty of PR status is the freedom it gives (unline non-immigrant H1b visa in the US). And those individuals, how they choose to settle and where to work, are not my concern. I am most of all concerned about MBAs or IT spesialists or analysts, with years of experience working in a large French, german, Indian or US corporation, arriving to Canada and not finding anything better than a shift at local warehouse. We know there are a lot of those people among landed PRs.
If you had any current knowledge you would know that IT specialist have no problem getting jobs in Canada at the moment. Individual with MBA is dependent on their field. MBA is now a common degree and where you received your MBA will play a big factor. Within Canadian graduates it is a deciding factor. If you attend Rotman or Ivey your chances of securing a job on Bay Street are much better than most other MBAs. There are labour shortages but as someone immigrating you Canada it is your job to see if your skills are needed in Canada. Canada has too many pharmacists and dentists. A simple google or reaching out to current dentists or pharmacists in Canada wil tell you that salaries are decreasing in those industries and jobs can be difficult to find. Shortages are in more remote/rural regions. I see many working in Finance wanting to relocate to Canada from various countries plus others currently working in HK and UK due to uncertainty in the country. This is on top of Canadians working in finance abroad wanting to return home. Canada is a small market. Anyone in finance knows this and would know they can only absorb so many workers coming from abroad. Many live in the fantasy that they will be the lucky one who will secure a top finance job in Canada. It is not up to Canada to do all your research and to determine if immigrating is the best thing for you to do. If you want to relocate to another city in Canada you do lots of research to determine if it the right decision. Same as a Canadian if you go work abroad or apply to immigrate to another country. You do your research to determine if it makes sense to immigrate. You keep on mentioning that new immigrants are willing to move anywhere for a good job but that isn’t true based on my experience on the ground.
 

jakklondon

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If you had any current knowledge you would know that IT specialist have no problem getting jobs in Canada at the moment.
No argument there. Besides, I try to keep a sight of the big picture. When I say "doctors pull rickshaws" I don't literally mean "Every single one of Canadian PRs are doctors by profession, and every single one of them is pulling a rickshaw". What I mean is that someone with professional degree, experience and credentials is forced to accept an unskilled job, or a job far below his qualifications, credentials and experience. I use these words in proverbial sense. So, in reality it could be anyone in any field/specialty with skills/experience that qualified them for PR, but ended up doing something not requiring more than a high school degree or BA in liberal arts. I believe I already explained this before, when you were arguing with me about too few doctors driving an Uber in Canada.

Individual with MBA is dependent on their field. MBA is now a common degree and where you received your MBA will play a big factor. Within Canadian graduates it is a deciding factor. If you attend Rotman or Ivey your chances of securing a job on Bay Street are much better than most other MBAs.
To sum it up, if you graduate from Harvard Law School you may start your career at one of the banks on Wall Street. We all know this, it's nothing new (or pertinent to Canada only) and, most importantly, is irrelevant to crux of our discussion.

There are labour shortages but as someone immigrating you Canada it is your job to see if your skills are needed in Canada.
Leave my job out of it. It's not my job to decide if 200,000 or 400,000 or 800,000 skilled immigrants will immigrate to Canada in 2023 or 2025.
These things are decided by federal government bureaucrats, not me, and that's who I am talking about: federal government bureaucrats of Canada, who get their fat paychecks salaries thanks to Canadian tax payers, and as such are answerable to all Canadians (including myself, because I am also Canadian, since I still hold PR status in Canada which has never been renounced or stripped off me).

Canada has too many pharmacists and dentists. A simple google or reaching out to current dentists or pharmacists in Canada will tell you that salaries are decreasing in those industries and jobs can be difficult to find. Shortages are in more remote/rural regions. I see many working in Finance wanting to relocate to Canada from various countries plus others currently working in HK and UK due to uncertainty in the country. This is on top of Canadians working in finance abroad wanting to return home. Canada is a small market. Anyone in finance knows this and would know they can only absorb so many workers coming from abroad. Many live in the fantasy that they will be the lucky one who will secure a top finance job in Canada. It is not up to Canada to do all your research and to determine if immigrating is the best thing for you to do. If you want to relocate to another city in Canada you do lots of research to determine if it the right decision. Same as a Canadian if you go work abroad or apply to immigrate to another country. You do your research to determine if it makes sense to immigrate. You keep on mentioning that new immigrants are willing to move anywhere for a good job but that isn’t true based on my experience on the ground.
I think you either intentionally or unintentionally misinterpret what I am saying. I am not disputing that there is shortage of all those jobs in Canada. Nor do I dispute that there are too many people coming to Canada, while its job market is too small to absorb all those people. In fact. I am stating that too many people are admitted to Canada and competing for jobs where there is no scarcity of workers, but scarcity of jobs. So, what are you arguing about?

But I also insist that it's the responsibility of the government to guard its' sovereign borders and decide who will come in and will stay out. There could be 1 billion people all over the world who will stream to Canada if you open the doors and give them all PR card. It's the job of the government to make sure that only those people who are needed and can be gainfully employed are granted admission. How many times I have to repeat myself?
 
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IndianBos

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I guess the Canadian govt should decide it's immigration policy based on a disgruntled PR who has read articles on the internet and has decided that he is the expert on how things should work in Canada and what is good for the country.

I will send an email to the Immigration minister if they have an opening to hire this person.
 

canuck78

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No argument there. Besides, I try to keep a sight of the big picture. When I say "doctors pull rickshaws" I don't literally mean "Every single one of Canadian PRs are doctors by profession, and every single one of them is pulling a rickshaw". What I mean is that someone with professional degree, expereince and credentials is forced to accept an unsklilled job, or a job far below his qualifications, credentials and experience. I use these words in proverbial sense. So, in reality it could be anyone in any field/specialty with skills/experience that qualified them for PR, but ended up doing somehting not requiring more than a high school degree or BA in liberal arts. I believe I already explained this before, when you were arguing with me about too few doctors driving an Uber in Canada.


Yet you specifically stated worrying about workers with MBAs and IT specialists. BA in liberal arts ins a bachelor degree. Apparently a bachelor degree in liberal arts means you are not educated. I already specified that no IMG is driving Uber unless they want to drive Uber. They have other job opportunities.



To sum it up, if you graduate from Harward you start your caareer at one of the banks on Wall Street. We all know this, it's nothing new (or pertient to Canada only) and, most importantly, is irrelevant to crux of our discussion.



Leave my job out of it. It's not my job to decide if 200,000 or 400,000 or 800,000 skilled immigrants will immigrate to Canada in 2023 or 2025.
These things are decided by federal government bureaucrats, not me, and that's who I am talking about: federal government bureaucrats of Canada, who get their fat paychecks salaries thanks to Canadian tax payers, and as such are answerable to all Canadians (including myself, because I am also Canadian, since I still hold PR status in Canada which has never been renounced or stripped off me).

It is an immigrant’s job or anyone seeking to work in another country to determine what professions are in demand, where the jobs are located within the country, etc. The number of immigrants accepted is based on the about job vacancies. There isn’t a shortage of jobs. There is a shortage of jobs in some fields and a shortage of certain jobs in some regions which is why people considering immigration need to do their own research.





I think you either intentionally or untintelionally misinterpret what I am saying. I am not disputing that there is shortage of all those jobs in Canada. Nor do I dispute that there are too many people coming to Canada, while its job market is too small to abosrb all those people. In fact. I am stating that too many people are admitted to Canada and competing for jobs where there is no scarcity of workers, but scarcity of jobs. So, what are you arguing about?


Certain job markets are too small to absorb the amount of people who would like to move to Canada and in other industries there is huge demand for workers and not enough people moving to Canada. I used the example of very well paying finance jobs. Canada is a small market, Canada can not absorb the demand from new immigrants and workers wanting to relocate from HK and London. The oil and gas industry was in big trouble for around 10 years and Canada could not absorb many of the workers who mostly worked in the Middle East and North Africa when many Canadian employees had not been rehired after the crash in oil prices. Meanwhile there is huge demand for any type of IT workers, many healthcare jobs (nursing, PSW, physiotherapist, ultrasound/radiology techs, etc.), AI, many forms of engineering, etc. lots of jobs available and not enough potential employees.

But I also insist that it's the responsibility of the government to guard its' sovereign borders and decide who will come in and will stay out. There could be 1 billion people all over the world who will stream to Canada if you open the doors and give them all PR card. It's the job of the governemtn to make sure that only those people who are needed and can be gainfully employed are granted admission. How many times I have to repeat myself?
The government does study how many people they should let immigrate every year. They don’t pull a number out of a hat. It isn’t the government’s responsibility to ensure that you find your ideal job in Canada or to ensure that you find a similar job you had in your home country. There is personally responsibility involved. When attending university or college you look at the job market and try to identify if you’ll be able to find work when you graduate or will the degree give you the skills needed to find a job. The government doesn’t do that for you. Most new graduates take jobs that may not be in their field to gain experience in the workforce. Canadians wanting to switch jobs look at the job market in various cities across Canada. They don’t expect the gvt to do the work for them.
 

steaky

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The government does study how many people they should let immigrate every year. They don’t pull a number out of a hat. It isn’t the government’s responsibility to ensure that you find your ideal job in Canada or to ensure that you find a similar job you had in your home country. There is personally responsibility involved. When attending university or college you look at the job market and try to identify if you’ll be able to find work when you graduate or will the degree give you the skills needed to find a job. The government doesn’t do that for you. Most new graduates take jobs that may not be in their field to gain experience in the workforce. Canadians wanting to switch jobs look at the job market in various cities across Canada. They don’t expect the gvt to do the work for them.
Let me rewrite your statement as below:

When attending university or college we don't look at the job market and try to identify if one'll be able to find work when graduate or will the degree give the skills needed to find a job - because most likely graduates take jobs that may not be in their field experience in the workforce.
 

jakklondon

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Let me rewrite your statement as below:

When attending university or college we don't look at the job market and try to identify if one'll be able to find work when graduate or will the degree give the skills needed to find a job - because most likely graduates take jobs that may not be in their field experience in the workforce.
She has a difficult job of being a voice of government propaganda on this forum. She can't engage in a straightforward discussion of the subject matter, she must constantly change the subject and make straw man arguments, like others who don't care about human cost of federal government policies that aim to please large corporations. Large corporations are the only beneficiaries of dirt cheap labor, which becomes available by oversaturation of job market and willful import of hundreds of thousands of skilled workers that Canadian job market has no capacity to absorb.
 

IndianBos

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She has a difficult job of being a voice of government propaganda on this forum. She can't engage in a straightforward discussion of the subject matter, she must constantly change the subject and make straw man arguments, like others who don't care about human cost of federal government policies that aim to please large corporations. Large corporations are the only beneficiaries of dirt cheap labor, which becomes available by oversaturation of job market and willful import of hundreds of thousands of skilled workers that Canadian job market has no capacity to absorb.
Anyone who disagrees with this "expert" is either a troll, or voice of govt propaganda or making straw man arguments. The "expert" has very strong opinions but never presents data to back it up, has never really lived in Canada but has read articles and seen videos to gain the "expertise" on Canada. The same trend and words repeated across multiple threads.
I guess we don't have a choice but to agree to this person's expert opinion. This person should be chosen to run the immigration ministry of both US and Canada.
 
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jakklondon

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Judging by the trends of last couple of decades and ultimate outcomes, it appears that the real intent of the federal government and its immigration policy is not the betterment of quality of life in Canada, but turning Canada into a third world country , where endless stream of dirt cheap labor can allow large, transnational corporations stay or invest in Canada taking advantage of its' over saturated labor market. Those large corporations are only ones being served and catered to by the federal government of the Canada. I can't think of any other rationale for Canadian federal government's plan to bring 1.3 million more skilled immigrants into Canada, whereas those who are already in Canada are struggling to get survival jobs as rickshaws on the street to pay their bills with paycheck to mouth wages. Coupled with astronomical cost of real estate and overall cost of living, immigrants planning to move to Canada should be prudent and aware of what awaits them in "Garden of Paradise" once they arrive to it. I suspect many of them are better off in country of origin, than they would be in Canada for the foreseeable future. And that's perhaps one of the main reasons we even have this sub-forum, dedicated to Canadian PRs who fled Canada as one would flee a cage full of snakes, and who stayed out of Canada for many years, now asking how to keep their PR status upon return while in breach of RO.
 
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IndianBos

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Judging by the trends of last couple of decades and ultimate outcomes, it appears that the real goal of the federal government and it's immigration policy is not the betterment of quality of life in Canada, but turning Canada into a third world country , where endless stream of dirt cheap labor can allow large, transnational corporations stay or invest in Canada taking advantage of its' over saturated labor market. Those large corporations are only ones being served and catered to by the federal government of the Canada. I can't think of any other rationale for Canadian federal government's plan to bring 1.3 million more skilled immigrants into Canada, whereas those who are already in Canada are struggling to get survival jobs as rickshaws to pay their bills with paycheck to mouth wages. Coupled with astronomical cost of real estate and overall cost of living, immigrants planning to move to Canada should be prudent and aware of what awaits them in "Garden of Paradise" once they arrive to it. I suspect many of them are better of in country of origin, than they would be in Canada for the foreseeable future.
Your argurement on oversaturation is a hyperbole at best. Doctors driving cabs is not because there are no jobs, but because they failed to understand the licensing requirements, which every developed country has. Search "doctors driving cabs in US" and first article is from Reuters.
Unemployment rate of IT Analysts is the lowest you will ever find, so I am not sure what you mean by oversaturation.
People have already explained to you that MBA is a generic degree. If someone has done sales and marketting in India, those skills don't directly translate to equivalent experience in US and Canada because of cultural differences.
Cost of living - Let's compare top 5 cities in US and top 5 cities in Canada. New York is the financial capital, like Toronto. But NY is a lot more expensive than Toronto. Don't compare Austin to Toronto, that would be apple to oranges.

I think multiple people have already countered every argument you make, and you still continue to make them. I know you had bad experience and are now down to blaming the immigration policy of Canada as a reason of your experience. It might just have been bad luck, but then, it seems you have made up your mind and no amount to information is going to change that.
 
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