Would Not Meet RO - got Job in Ireland

[SSDN4673]

I had PR since July 2016 (28 yrs) and choose to live abroad (India and then 1.5 years in the US, got my L1B in India in 2019 after Canada PR) till Sep 2020 (32 yrs – already out of obligation, they didn’t ask much). I came to Canada in Sep 2020 and lived in Canada Dec 2021, however, living hand to mouth and haven’t found a job that is commensurate with my skills. I was earning good in India and US (INR 3,500,000 Base Salary CAD 70,000 and then the US was also >$120,000), however, had very big dreams in Canada (obviously not fulfilled). I started to work as Credit Advisor in TD Bank and merely make ends meet!

Now I was a 33-year-old man living frugally on CAD 45,000 in Mississauga, however, in Sep 2021 I was offered a job in Ireland in the role of Senior Manager with a 6-figure salary. I have got Critical Skills Employment Permit in Dec 2021 and I returned to India in Dec 2021 to apply for a Type D visa from India (Mumbai). Given I will be on a Critical Skills Employment Permit in Ireland, would not meet residency obligations in Canada. Will that have any impact on my Visa Status in Ireland? I left Canada as I wasn’t getting any job there which was commensurate with my skills and experience in India and US and had been trying since July 2020 (or even before). Would Ireland ask why I decided to leave Canada in the future? Do I owe any explanation to Canada on leaving? Or will it be considered a visa refusal?

 

[scylla]

I had PR since July 2016 (28 yrs) and choose to live abroad (India and then 1.5 years in the US, got my L1B in India in 2019 after Canada PR) till Sep 2020 (32 yrs – already out of obligation, they didn’t ask much). I came to Canada in Sep 2020 and lived in Canada Dec 2021, however, living hand to mouth and haven’t found a job that is commensurate with my skills. I was earning good in India and US (INR 3,500,000 Base Salary CAD 70,000 and then the US was also >$120,000), however, had very big dreams in Canada (obviously not fulfilled). I started to work as Credit Advisor in TD Bank and merely make ends meet!

Now I was a 33-year-old man living frugally on CAD 45,000 in Mississauga, however, in Sep 2021 I was offered a job in Ireland in the role of Senior Manager with a 6-figure salary. I have got Critical Skills Employment Permit in Dec 2021 and I returned to India in Dec 2021 to apply for a Type D visa from India (Mumbai). Given I will be on a Critical Skills Employment Permit in Ireland, would not meet residency obligations in Canada. Will that have any impact on my Visa Status in Ireland? I left Canada as I wasn’t getting any job there which was commensurate with my skills and experience in India and US and had been trying since July 2020 (or even before). Would Ireland ask why I decided to leave Canada in the future? Do I owe any explanation to Canada on leaving? Or will it be considered a visa refusal?

You would need to post your questions about Ireland to an Ireland immigration forum. However i expect the answer would be no.

You don't owe any explanation to Canada.

I'm not sure I understand your question about if it will be considered a visa refusal.

 

[SSDN4673]

You would need to post your questions about Ireland to an Ireland immigration forum. However i expect the answer would be no.

You don't owe any explanation to Canada.

I'm not sure I understand your question about if it will be considered a visa refusal.

Visa Expert from the company (big tech company among FAANG) said Canada PR Status is irrelevant to Ireland as I am free to make my choice to leave Canada and go to any other country. They say they have hired Canadian/Australian PRs, H1B, (Indian Passport Holders) in Germany, Ireland, the UK, and Denmark and they had no issues. I have posted on Ireland Immigration Forum, but that isn't as active as Canada Immigration Forum.

Thanks! I left resigning from my job in TD did my 2 weeks notice and said I am leaving for India

Given I am abandoning PR Status - Don't know if Canada will report me as abandoned PR or something like that, and report me in their system, even though I choose to leave Canada and am not asked to leave. This tech company has filed H1Bs and Critical Skills Employment Permit for Canadian PRs where candidates have abandoned Canadian PR as the firm successfully filed a petition for Green Card (or Stamp 4 in Ireland). Visa Expert (Lawyer) even went on to say literally >80% of H1Bs in the US (the equivalent of Critical Skills Employment Permit in Ireland) have Canadian PR as their fall-back option only.

 

[jakklondon]

According to Canadian laws you are a free man, not a serf of a feudal lord or chowdhury. You should be free to leave any country at any time, unless you are sought under warrant as a subject of criminal investigation. Nobody can hold against you your wish to abandon your PR status and leave Canada.

 

[SSDN4673]

According to Canadian laws you are a free man, not a serf of a feudal lord or chowdhury. You should be free to leave any country at any time, unless you are sought under warrant as a subject of criminal investigation. Nobody can hold against you your wish to abandon your PR status and leave Canada.

No, I don't have any criminal investigation in Canada and even got Police Certificate to prove it as it was required to produce for Critical Skills Employment Permit

Thanks!

 

[jakklondon]

You are welcome @SSDN4673 ! And thank you for mentioning your experience of living as PR in Canada and doing survival jobs, getting paid third of what you were paid in the USA and almost half of what you earned in India. What you described is one of the main reasons why so many PRs, after landing and being disillusioned with the reality on the ground, run away and abandon their PR status in Canada.

 

[SSDN4673]

I was Program Manager in a big tech product company in India (by PPP I was paid way higher than Canada) and then Program Manager in the US as well with the same company in the US - however in Canada getting program management jobs were difficult and also paid lower! anyhow i found job where I can survive as I realized by 2021 it was a mistake to leave my US job. I could have landed jobs easily in US and India, but Canada was another level of work. The worst thing was I applied to 15 jobs in Europe and US - got 6 interviews and 2 offers in Ireland and Switzerland. I applied to 100+ jobs in Canada, did coffee things, reached out to people on LinkedIn, and landed with just 10-12 interviews with no offers. I just felt luck wasn't on my side! Anyhow, I won't regret I didn't give it a try. I tried even before Sep 2020 (given I was in the US). One other thing is to try to get a job from your American employer in Canada, I asked for that but Texas had rules of person being based in Texas only! In Texas, with a Base Salary of $126,000 were you will be rich with the lowest tax rate and gosh lowest rent. Mississauga/Oakville my gosh Canada is expensive with 13% Sales Tax lol. another thing why most companies don't offer program management in Canada is there aren't enough customers base - US, Europe, and India is the place to be in case you are in tech program management

 

[jakklondon]

I was Program Manager in a big tech product company in India (by PPP I was paid way higher than Canada) and then Program Manager in the US as well with the same company in the US - however in Canada getting program management jobs were difficult and also paid lower! anyhow i found job where I can survive as I realized by 2021 it was a mistake to leave my US job. I could have landed jobs easily in US and India, but Canada was another level of work. The worst thing was I applied to 15 jobs in Europe and US - got 6 interviews and 2 offers in Ireland and Switzerland. I applied to 100+ jobs in Canada, did coffee things, reached out to people on LinkedIn, and landed with just 10-12 interviews with no offers. I just felt luck wasn't on my side! Anyhow, I won't regret I didn't give it a try. I tried even before Sep 2020 (given I was in the US). One other thing is to try to get a job from your American employer in Canada, I asked for that but Texas had rules of person being based in Texas only! In Texas, with a Base Salary of $126,000 were you will be rich with the lowest tax rate and gosh lowest rent. Mississauga/Oakville my gosh Canada is expensive with 13% Sales Tax lol. another thing why most companies don't offer program management in Canada is there aren't enough customers base - US, Europe, and India is the place to be in case you are in tech program management

I hear you. My experience is similar to yours. Even though we are in completely different fields, still, from what I can tell ,new PR may send 500 resumes to Canadian employers and either never hear back from them, or get one line saying "we found better candidate" for a vacancy, and may be land one interview after which you will never hear from the employer again. Even if you have years of experience in your field of specialty and glowing referrals it won't help, because they won't bother to know. You would then be forced (assuming you sold all your properties and moved to Canada with your life savings) to accept what is called a "survival job", far below your qualifications and skills, with half or one third of what you were paid in the US or perhaps in India.
The idea, I guess, is to spend two-three years in the "survival job", while learning to network and kiss a lot of behinds of those who can "get you a leg-in" and eventually (if you show master class in kissing places where Sun never shines) you may land some sort of an entry level position in some Canadian company which will be relevant to your field of specialty. That is if it doesn't require a bunch of additional licensing and testing (as the case is with engineers and doctors).This is so different from anything I have ever witnessed in the US, even during the economic crisis between 2008-2014.

When I shared my perspective, some of the members here attacked me, alleging that I exaggerate the challenges in Canadian labor market for newly landed PR and "slandering Canada" with some ulterior motive

Anyway, wish you lots of luck. Glad you got a job in your field, in a place that will appreciate your skills and reward you accordingly.

 

[SSDN4673]

It's all about what you want in life - while I was looking for a job - sitting idle in 2020/2021 doing survival job of Credit Advisor/Card Advisor etc - I did an analysis of my LinkedIn network of around 500 people (Immigrants in Canada) - 60% are still underemployed although, in the same field, I am sure, not able to make enough salary (by either PPP or 40-60% of what they have been earning in Europe/US) - 20% are unemployed and 20% are employed at levels higher which is good enough (as they got a transfer from India/Europe/US). So better is to get a transfer from your host company to a Canadian counterpart. In any case, Canada benefits from this 80% as they are working and adding to tax which pays for everyone. In these, 60% did struggle for like 3 months to 30 months (median of 15-18 months) before even making it to an underemployed job in their respective field. In any case, if they become tired before these 15 months, then some immigrants leave provided they have a job (here mostly who get opportunities in Singapore, big positions in India, Europe, or the US leave). Anyways - Immigrants who live in Canada spend on food, groceries, rent, etc, and add to the tax. It's a win-win for Canada. In my opinion, Canada should stop advertising, and yes they do in India (and in the US as well I saw big billboards of Canada Immigration in TEXAS!!!) - even via consultants which are CIC certified. I never see billboards for Ireland or Swiss Immigration or maybe they aren't popular destinations

Also, there are two sides to that as well - when I was trying to get a transfer from the US to Canada, I saw the majority of employees in Canada trying to get in the US (on TN Visa) but were not able to clear the interviews. One of my mates was able to get a transfer from India to Canada back in 2012 on PR and got citizenship in 2017. He is trying his level best to get to the US, however, when you have worked in Canada (skills gap as Tech doesn't upgrade the way it upgrades itself in India/US/Europe) and already in a debt trap (with housing almost >20-50 times your base salary) it becomes difficult. Here again who am I - like Mumbai, Delhi, Hyderabad and Bengaluru are all same with housing going way above the average salary (almost 20-100 times your base salary).

I strongly support Australia Model where you get invited in job codes only if you are in skills required in the country so that salaries don't go below or the market is not saturated with excess labor

Ireland/Switzerland model is best if in case you are in Critical Skills or your salary to be minimum EUR 84,000 (CAD 125,000) or CHF 100,000 (CAD 140,000).

I wish everyone in Canada - Good luck

 

[jakklondon]

I agree with everything you said.

Regarding TN visa applicants rejected I would like to note the following: TN is non-immigrant visa. Obviously it's different from H1b visa (it's much easier to get), but overall, it's just a non-immigrant visa. US doesn't have to employ foreign nationals, just as Canada doesn't have to employ American or other foreign citizens. And no one in the US told Canadians that we have a tremendous need to TN visa holders (up to 400,000 per year), so everyone should rush to get it, nor US tells TN visa holder to stay in the US forever, or they will lose the visa and would have to submit a mountain of paperwork to qualify for it again (with big IF attached to qualifying in future). And I can't imagine newly approved TN visa holder being consistently sent to secondary inspection, where he is grilled about his residence status in the US

Therefore, I believe, situation is very different with skilled PRs in Canada vs. non-immigrant visa holders in the US. Canadian skilled PRs were qualified for permanent residence by Canadian government (with the rights and privileges almost mirroring those of Can. citizens) , and their qualification was based on Canada's alleged need to employ them due to scarcity of such skilled workers in Canadian labor market (which is hugely misleading, if you consider the extreme length people get to land any job, which often turns out to be a survival job). And once PR is landed in Canada he is obligated to stay there permanently (not leave the country for more than 3 years in any five-year period and keep close ties/assets/investments, or else), regardless of their prospects to get a meaningful and fairly compensated job (not mere survival job).

 

[armoured]

And once PR is landed in Canada he is obligated to stay there permanently (not leave the country for more than 3 years in any five year period and keep close ties/assets/investments, or else), regardless of their peospects to get a meaningful and fairly compensated job (not mere survival job).

Such a bizarre take.

No, no PR is 'obligated to say in Canada permanently.' They can depart, no issues whatsoever. The only "or else" is that to keep one's PR status, you have to ... reside in Canada (but actually only for two years in every five).

I don't know anyone who finds that weird or odd. It's just a rule, and not a particularly onerous one. If anything it's extremely lenient, and also has some additional 'breakers' in the form of H&C relief.

If someone doesn't find Canada works for them - personally, professionally, don't like the cold - no problem. You can leave. Sorry it didn't work out. Have a nice life.

When in addition you consider that most applicants can get citizenship with only a bit of extra time in Canada (and some other minor hoops), not at all onerous.

There are - as always with immigration stuff, everywhere - some edge cases that are painful. But the RO is hardly unreasonable overall. There are few countries with more lenient residency obligations.

 

[armoured]

I don't know anyone who finds that weird or odd. It's just a rule, and not a particularly onerous one. If anything it's extremely lenient

A small note on this: I'm not particularly attached to the specifics of the residency obligation, how it's applied, and some specifics. I note there are (off and on) some complaints about eg the H&C particularly in covid - i.e. many would like some blanket announcement. There are some aspects about how the RO interacts with cards that personally I find really problematic. Some would like the RO to be more strict, or [insert own wishlist here].

Point being: it's one thing to have complaints about the specifics of the current RO requirement and particularly administration of it (both theory and practice eg delays). It's normal. Eveyrone has an opinion.

But the idea that to maintain your PR status you have to ... reside in Canada? Give me a break. Nobody I know thinks that's unreasonable. Want to remain a PR? Live in Canada. Don't want to live in Canada? Don't be a PR. Perfectly fine and normal.

 

[jakklondon]

.

 

[Saudamini]

I had PR since July 2016 (28 yrs) and choose to live abroad (India and then 1.5 years in the US, got my L1B in India in 2019 after Canada PR) till Sep 2020 (32 yrs – already out of obligation, they didn’t ask much). I came to Canada in Sep 2020 and lived in Canada Dec 2021, however, living hand to mouth and haven’t found a job that is commensurate with my skills. I was earning good in India and US (INR 3,500,000 Base Salary CAD 70,000 and then the US was also >$120,000), however, had very big dreams in Canada (obviously not fulfilled). I started to work as Credit Advisor in TD Bank and merely make ends meet!

Now I was a 33-year-old man living frugally on CAD 45,000 in Mississauga, however, in Sep 2021 I was offered a job in Ireland in the role of Senior Manager with a 6-figure salary. I have got Critical Skills Employment Permit in Dec 2021 and I returned to India in Dec 2021 to apply for a Type D visa from India (Mumbai). Given I will be on a Critical Skills Employment Permit in Ireland, would not meet residency obligations in Canada. Will that have any impact on my Visa Status in Ireland? I left Canada as I wasn’t getting any job there which was commensurate with my skills and experience in India and US and had been trying since July 2020 (or even before). Would Ireland ask why I decided to leave Canada in the future? Do I owe any explanation to Canada on leaving? Or will it be considered a visa refusal?

No there is no impact of PR Status on your other country visa. You should apply from the country where you are a resident. If you are living in India - Its better to apply from India!

I got a couple of visas from Singapore (Tourist, work visa extension) even after holding Canada PR. I even got L1A in Singapore!

 

[canuck78]

You are welcome @SSDN4673 ! And thank you for mentioning your experience of living as PR in Canada and doing survival jobs, getting paid third of what you were paid in the USA and almost half of what you earned in India. What you described is one of the main reasons why so many PRs, after landing and being disillusioned with the reality on the ground, run away and abandon their PR status in Canada.

Arriving during the middle of a pandemic where many companies are not hiring is not really truly representative of opportunities in Canada. If people find better opportunities elsewhere they should pursue them.