Question on on dual residency

[TedNash]

Hey There,

A quick (perhaps nooby question):

- I got my permanent residency for Canada last August (spousal PR)
- We did not end up moving to Canada in August (I landed and picked up my PR), due to work which kept me back in the UK.
- I remain in the UK, but aim to move to Canada 2023.
- Every time I go through border control, they always ask if I am a resident of UK or have I given it up, and vice versa?

My question is - can you be a dual resident of both Canada and UK? I intend to file a tax return in both jurisdictions as there are tax treaties which prevent me from being double taxed.

I know I can easily continue my spousal PR by just living with my Canadian wife outside of Canada, but why do I always get challenged on my residency status when entering Canada?

I'd love any thoughts, and what the correct response to border control should be every time I enter Canada - as far as I know, it's perfectly legal for me to be a PR in Canada, but reside in the UK with my Canadian wife, and retain my PR status.

 

[scylla]

Hey There,

A quick (perhaps nooby question):

- I got my permanent residency for Canada last August (spousal PR)
- We did not end up moving to Canada in August (I landed and picked up my PR), due to work which kept me back in the UK.
- I remain in the UK, but aim to move to Canada 2023.
- Every time I go through border control, they always ask if I am a resident of UK or have I given it up, and vice versa?

My question is - can you be a dual resident of both Canada and UK? I intend to file a tax return in both jurisdictions as there are tax treaties which prevent me from being double taxed.

I know I can easily continue my spousal PR by just living with my Canadian wife outside of Canada, but why do I always get challenged on my residency status when entering Canada?

I'd love any thoughts, and what the correct response to border control should be every time I enter Canada - as far as I know, it's perfectly legal for me to be a PR in Canada, but reside in the UK with my Canadian wife, and retain my PR status.

You can't necessarily easily continue your PR just be living with your Canadian wife outside of Canada. IRCC applies the who accompanied whom rule in these cases. This means that if you are accompanying your wife outside of Canada (i.e. you are primarily outside of Canada due to her job), then you can count the time outside of Canada towards the PR residency requirement. But if it's the other way around (i.e. you are outside of Canada primarily due to your obligations), then you can't.

As for the border, I would simply respond that you have Canadian PR but are living in the UK for now and plan to relocate to Canada next year.

 

[TedNash]

Thanks for the answer @scylla.

What if it’s both? We both have jobs in the UK? If feels like it would be hard for them to prove otherwise?

Lastly, thanks re the point on border controls - I was planning to respond by saying I am a dual resident and file tax returns in both jurisdictions - as we currently both earn incomes in the UK, but plan to relocate back to Canada soon.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Or do you think that would raise further questions from immigration?

Thanks again

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the answer @scylla.

What if it’s both? We both have jobs in the UK? If feels like it would be hard for them to prove otherwise?

Lastly, thanks re the point on border controls - I was planning to respond by saying I am a dual resident and file tax returns in both jurisdictions - as we currently both earn incomes in the UK, but plan to relocate back to Canada soon.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Or do you think that would raise further questions from immigration?

Thanks again

If it's both of you, then it's a dice roll but likely to work out in your favour. Ultimately no one here can say for certain. Burden of proof typically falls on the applicant vs. IRCC.

I personally don't see the point in filing taxes in both jurisdictions. I would declare yourself a non-resident in Canada and not file taxes here until you move back. I don't think filing taxes in Canada helps you at the border. I would just say you are a PR living oustide of Canada with plans to move back in 2023. Keep it short and don't over complicate with the tax stuff.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks for the answer @scylla.

What if it’s both? We both have jobs in the UK? If feels like it would be hard for them to prove otherwise?

Lastly, thanks re the point on border controls - I was planning to respond by saying I am a dual resident and file tax returns in both jurisdictions - as we currently both earn incomes in the UK, but plan to relocate back to Canada soon.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Or do you think that would raise further questions from immigration?

Thanks again

Given that you never relocated to Canada you are very unlikely to be able to count your time in the UK towards your RO. You must have moved to Canada and then relocated with your spouse to normally count the time together. There were people who got married, were sponsored by their spouse and after landing their spouse joined them in their home country to continue their pre-sponsorship life. The couple never relocated from Canada and the spouse never established a life in Canada so there was no move to accompany a spouse abroad.

 

[TedNash]

Thanks @canuck78 - I really appreciate that.

Given that you don't believe I could count time towards by RO - when my PR expires, do you think I'll have any issues renewing it?

I don't really understand how they could deny given the fact I have married a Canadian Citizen, and thanks to Covid we couldn't move back as originally planned.

So, my question is - how/why would they deny my renewal?

Secondly, @scylla - if I declare myself a non-resident in Canada, and not file taxes there - do I lose my PR status/card? I imagine reapplying for it after that will become more difficult and take just as long (1+ year?).

Thanks guys - really appreciate the thoughts.

 

[scylla]

Thanks @canuck78 - I really appreciate that.

Given that you don't believe I could count time towards by RO - when my PR expires, do you think I'll have any issues renewing it?

I don't really understand how they could deny given the fact I have married a Canadian Citizen, and thanks to Covid we couldn't move back as originally planned.

So, my question is - how/why would they deny my renewal?

Secondly, @scylla - if I declare myself a non-resident in Canada, and not file taxes there - do I lose my PR status/card? I imagine reapplying for it after that will become more difficult and take just as long (1+ year?).

Thanks guys - really appreciate the thoughts.

Meeting the residency requirement is based on days spent living in Canada (or days spent outside of Canada that qualify). It has nothing to do with taxes.

 

[TedNash]

Meeting the residency requirement is based on days spent living in Canada (or days spent outside of Canada that qualify). It has nothing to do with taxes.

I am aware of that, but I was referring to your 'non-resident' point, and whether if I declare that, would I need to reapply for PR when the time comes? Thanks again.

 

[scylla]

I am aware of that, but I was referring to your 'non-resident' point, and whether if I declare that, would I need to reapply for PR when the time comes? Thanks again.

That's a tax status. Again, this has nothing to do with PR. You're mixing apples and oranges (or chalk and cheese, as some of my good friends would say). The two are not related.

 

[TedNash]

Ahh, apologies - so I can basically be a 'non-resident' as I submit my tax return in Canada, but to your point 'non-resident' has nothing to do with me retaining my PR.

Thanks (and apologies, that took me a while!)

 

[scylla]

Ahh, apologies - so I can basically be a 'non-resident' as I submit my tax return in Canada, but to your point 'non-resident' has nothing to do with me retaining my PR.

Thanks (and apologies, that took me a while!)

That's right.

 

[TedNash]

Given that you never relocated to Canada you are very unlikely to be able to count your time in the UK towards your RO. You must have moved to Canada and then relocated with your spouse to normally count the time together. There were people who got married, were sponsored by their spouse and after landing their spouse joined them in their home country to continue their pre-sponsorship life. The couple never relocated from Canada and the spouse never established a life in Canada so there was no move to accompany a spouse abroad.

Hey Canuck,

If possible, it would be great to clarify what you have said.

- I applied for spousal PR and was granted this (it took a year)
- After being granted, I landed in Canada and picked up my PR card and SIN number.
- Since then though (mainly due to Covid), flying back and forth was difficult and made moving hard to the point we changed our mind.
- My wife has a job here in the UK, which is now delaying our move back to Canada. (I also have a job here in teh UK).

In your opinion, why do you not think our time in the UK would count towards my Canada PR for when I reapply when it expires?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[armoured]

In your opinion, why do you not think our time in the UK would count towards my Canada PR for when I reapply when it expires?

I don't mean to speak for someone else but let's take two imaginary cases:

1) PR moves to Canada from HomeCountry, lives in Canada for several years, spouse gets job/posting (esp temporary) to ThirdCountry, they reside there for term of posting and return to Canada. PR does not work and clear only went to ThirdCountry with spouse, times they departed and left coincide exactly. Possibly other supporting factors like return together to Canada for most or many vacations and leave, maybe children studying in Canada, possibly maintaining asepcts of household in Canada, bank accounts, etc.

Basically a no-brainer of a case (assuming nothing else weird): PR accompanied citizen-spouse.

2) PR lands in Canada, returns to HomeCountry, spends minimal time in Canada, PR works in HomeCountry and citizen-spouse only occasionally or not at all, citizen-spouse is not even in HomeCountry very often and times and travel do not necessarily coincide. Few or little other supproting things like above - both don't come to Canada often, no ties, children in HomeCountry (quite possible citizen-spouse is also originally from HomeCountry). Possibly some additional contra-indications - eg PR 'moved' to HomeCountry before citizen-spouse or never left or whatever. Possibly also some indication that the couple have no plan or interest in ever returning to or residing in Canada (and the PR status is sort-of for convenience).

This would be relatively harder - possibly extremely difficult - to present to any outside observer as PR-accompanied-citizen-spouse. IF, that is, someone decides to analyze and how much in detail or in substance the 'who accompanied whom' question.

In short: a higher chance of being turned down for the days-accompanying-spouse.

There may be other 'goodwill factors' that influence decisions by IRCC officers that would be harder to identify - certain professions, education, etc that are commonly encountered - academics, employees of some multinationals, employees of international organisations - where appointments and engagements 'abroad' and for varying lengths of time are common. Just as an example. (But note also, often not related to HomeCountry - alghtough some exceptions). Note to some degree I'm speculating here - but I believe some 'narrative' issues matter here (compared to, for example, "went to HomeCountry and contineud doing exaclty the same thing").

For other cases - in-between cases, like your own - no-one knows. You can get impressions, opinions, some 'examples' from other cases reported or adjudicated, etc - but really, no-one knows. (Partly because subjective, partly because anyone outside probably doesn't know the whole story - people posting here often leave out really important information).

Most likely, overall, stories/cases that are closer to my hypothetical first case will get the days counted with the least difficulty, and those closer to the second case will be successful less frequently.

My point being: your case is in-between and no-one knows exactly. There's no point 'debating' the interpretation with anyone here - we don't know exactly, but can give you some info. You can use that to try to change your approach and also make sure you document and make the best case you can for why your case fits the intent of the regulations.

But if PR status is important to you, the only SOLID piece of advice is that you can retain your PR status easily by remaining in compliance with the residency obligation by physically residing in Canada. That is incontrovertible.

And you may or may not get your days-accompanying counted. You can't 100% rely on it, and you can't get certainty in advance, although you might be comfortable with how well your case 'fits'. Your spouse can sponsor you in future (assuming a few things about the future), and that may be inconvenient, but if all goes well is an option that many do not have.