Does passport Canada call the guarantor and the references?

[jakklondon]

Okay I am tried of going back and forth with you. If you have a problem, courts are at your disposal. If you don't want to do that, follow whatever rules apply. Simple as that.

@armoured and I have provided enough talking points here and it would be an absolute waste of time discussing this non-issue that isn't going to lead us anywhere.

I'm out.

I don't have a problem. You don't comprehend the concept of Human Rights, you don't know what it is to have a right to move out of and return to your country, and you keep arguing about it for the sake of arguing, and you keep bringing irrelevant analogies.

I don't plan to apply for Canadian citizenship. I just state the facts: denial of the right to move freely is a violation of Article 13 of the Universal Human Rights charter. The other poster you mentioned is in my ignore list, my replies are addressed to you and in response to your comments.

 

[ybjianada]

Yup.

People were discussing the topic without looking up the passport Canada website even once. Not a single one of them...

If any one of them had googled "passport Canada no guarantor", they would have read the first page References and guarantors for Canadian travel document which has a very clear sub-title "If you can’t find a guarantor"...

And yes, asking for guarantor for a passport is a pretty common practice (Australia, New Zealand, UK all have this in place). This is nothing specific to Canada.

It is also important to note that The "Statutory Declaration in Lieu of Guarantor" form (PPTC 132) is not available online. Passport Office has deliberately made this form available only in physical forms in actual Passport Office locations. See this CTV report:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/online-form-poses-problem-for-passport-canada-1.390746

A spokesman for the passport office called the form a "last resort" for people who can't find a guarantor.

"Because it's a last resort, we're not making the form readily available," Fabien Lengelle said in an interview.

Lengelle added that Passport Canada has been in touch with webmasters at Foreign Affairs. "We've asked our colleagues to remove that file from websites, and we have been successful in some cases but in some we haven't."

Enns said the absurdity of the situation prompted him to act.

Therefore, even though an alternative to "guarantor" is available, the government has made that deliberately difficult by 1) not making this file readily available 2) the applicant has to then pay fees to do a statutory declaration. Why is the government clinging to this outdated guarantor system? What purpose does it serve other than to cause extra work and expenses for applicants?

Also, simply because this is a requirement in the four white-dominant Anglophone countries: Canada, Australia, New Zealand the UK does not make it a "common" practice as you claim. Let's not forget there is the REST OF THE WORLD.

This is simply a useless vestige from British imperialism that Canada is clinging onto for nothing more than colonial nostalgia. I can't think of a rational reason to keep it.

 

[ybjianada]

Guarantor is not the only thing you need to get a passport. You also need two references. is there a page where it says "what to do if you don't have a guarantor and references"?

It doesn't matter how many countries have this as a common practice. The fact is that a citizen in Canada, if such individual doesn't have or can't produce references, can be denied a passport. Such individual for all practical purposes would be locked in Canada, unable to exit it and/or return to it after the exit.
That's violation of Article 13 of the Universal Human Rights charter.

I disagree that this is a human rights issue. The government does not prevent a passport-less Canadian citizen from leaving Canada. However, Airlines will not allow you to board the plane (you have to go somewhere, correct?). This does not make it an action of the Canadian government. Same for returning: If you somehow manage to present yourself at the Canadian border carrying only a citizenship certificate. They will allow you entry. However, the question is how you can manage to travel to the Canadian border without a passport. Again, that would be a restriction imposed by the airlines, not by the Canadian government per se.

 

[jakklondon]

I disagree that this is a human rights issue. The government does not prevent a passport-less Canadian citizen from leaving Canada. However, Airlines will not allow you to board the plane (you have to go somewhere, correct?). This does not make it an action of the Canadian government. Same for returning: If you somehow manage to present yourself at the Canadian border carrying only a citizenship certificate. They will allow you entry. However, the question is how you can manage to travel to the Canadian border without a passport. Again, that would be a restriction imposed by the airlines, not by the Canadian government per se.

You can not leave Canada without a passport, unless you want to get yourself stuck between Canadian border and US POE, or want to cross borders and travel illegally. It used to be that as a Canadian citizen you could cross US/Canada border with a driver's license, but those days are gone.. As soon as you leave Canadian territory you must present yourself to authorities of other state. And how are you going to cross into, let's say, the US without a passport? Perhaps, you can flee Canada on your feet (or a charter plane) and ask for asylum elsewhere, but that's no different from fleeing a prison. Passport (pass + port) is an instrument specifically designed to facilitate your passage out and into the country. Denying it essentially denies your right to move out of the country and return to it.

 

[jakklondon]

Although this is not about Canada (rather, it's about the US and SCOTUS Justice Douglas, who ruled about the right of the citizen to travel and overruled lower court's and State Department's denial of passport to US Citizen), but if you follow the reasoning of the Jurist at the level of the Supreme Court of the United States, it's clear that the denial of passport is an equivalent of the denial of the right to a free movement. See link below.

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3285&context=wmlr

 

[kathychang]

We got our first passports, family of 4, naturalized. Applied in person, normal processing. Got the passports in 6 calendar days. They did not call the guarantors/ references. Our guarantors were themselves naturalized Citizens. I believe that for all express passport requests they make calls to the references. Guarantors they know exists coz of the passport record.

May I ask you how did you apply in person these days? They don't take walk-in, right?
Did you have to request an appointment online through "https://eservices.canada.ca/?

 

[kathychang]

I contacted Passport Canada both by phone & Facebook to clarify the information online for reference.
(https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-passports/travel-documents-references-guarantors.html)
(

https://www.facebook.com/passportcan/photos/a.516047298424809/2281931838503004

)

Answers are the same. Apparently, aunt, uncle & cousin may act as a reference for passport application as long as they meet the following requirements.

Your references must:
• have known you for at least two years;
• not be your guarantor;
• not reside at the same address as you;
• be 18 years of age or older; and
• agree to you using their name and contact information for your application.

I don't know for you guys, but it's much easier for me.

 

[jakklondon]

I contacted Passport Canada both by phone & Facebook to clarify the information online for reference.
(https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-passports/travel-documents-references-guarantors.html)
(

https://www.facebook.com/passportcan/photos/a.516047298424809/2281931838503004

)

Answers are the same. Apparently, aunt, uncle & cousin may act as a reference for passport application as long as they meet the following requirements.

Your references must:
• have known you for at least two years;
• not be your guarantor;
• not reside at the same address as you;
• be 18 years of age or older; and
• agree to you using their name and contact information for your application.

I don't know for you guys, but it's much easier for me.

You are lucky, it's easy for you. Many immigrants come from humongous families , with dozens of siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, village pals and etc. But that doesn't apply to all naturalized Canadian citizens.

 

[kathychang]

You are lucky, it's easy for you. Many immigrants come from humongous families , with dozens of siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, village pals and etc. But that doesn't apply to all naturalized Canadian citizens.

I won't consider as lucky, everyone has their own stories. For me it's harder to get reference from friends. As most of the people I know are not close to me, or they just come and leave the country.

I'm confused. why it doesn't apply to all naturalized Canadian citizens application???
it doesn't say that on their website. Did passport canada tell you that?

 

[keypad]

I contacted Passport Canada both by phone & Facebook to clarify the information online for reference.
(https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-passports/travel-documents-references-guarantors.html)
(

https://www.facebook.com/passportcan/photos/a.516047298424809/2281931838503004

)

Answers are the same. Apparently, aunt, uncle & cousin may act as a reference for passport application as long as they meet the following requirements.

Your references must:
• have known you for at least two years;
• not be your guarantor;
• not reside at the same address as you;
• be 18 years of age or older; and
• agree to you using their name and contact information for your application.

I don't know for you guys, but it's much easier for me.

@kathychang Thanks for providing the info. So, going with that, can my spouse and I use my niece as our reference? She does not live at the same address but in a different province.

 

[armoured]

@kathychang Thanks for providing the info. So, going with that, can my spouse and I use my niece as our reference? She does not live at the same address but in a different province.

Yes:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/dont-know-anyone-that-meets-the-criteria-of-a-passport-guarantor.749796/post-9817472

Govt of Canada site is pretty clear on this.

 

[jakklondon]

I won't consider as lucky, everyone has their own stories. For me it's harder to get reference from friends. As most of the people I know are not close to me, or they just come and leave the country.

I'm confused. why it doesn't apply to all naturalized Canadian citizens application???
it doesn't say that on their website. Did passport canada tell you that?

The rule applies to all. What I mean is that not everyone has extended family who they can ask to be a reference or guarantor. What if someone is a former refugee who lost all relatives in war? What if someone is like American writer Salinger J. D., who disliked socializing with people (for very valid reasons) and lived half of his life in total (self imposed) seclusion? What if it's just someone who has no extended family (the sole kid of parents who had no siblings, passed away grandparents), and with no so called "friend" in Canada, no one who was willing to vouch for them? I have read some stories in this forum about fake friends, who were supposedly friends but refused to be a reference or guarantor for the Canadian citizenship applicants. I mean, if you are an adult individual with some life experience you know there are many possibilities out there. The world is not made of people just like yourself, who have the same options/resources/connections that you have. It's naïve to imagine everyone on Earth like other versions of yourself and your personal circumstances.
And the passport is something that allows you to travel freely. As such, it's an instrument that you are entitled to (under human rights charter). It should not be conditioned or denied because you can't meet certain arbitrary condition imposed on you.

 

[srusht]

Can you get passport without garantor or references?

 

[Doom__V]

I personally find this entire thread entertaining!

so you have stayed in country for over at least 3 years.
You had all documents to get your citizenship
In all those years and ever since you are born you don’t know 2 people anywhere in world who are not your blood relative family? And you have not made any 1 person who is a Canadian and has a passport.

If that is the case, i feel sorry for your lonliness. You should surrender Canadian citizenship and return to your home country.

please don’t bother to burden yourself of being lonelier any further.

if they have to burden rcmp and other govt bodies at disposal for background verification, get in the 1 year long passport processing queue.I definitely dont want the same wait periods as citizenship processing times

 

[bakshivishal]

Can you get passport without garantor or references?

You can use a notary instead of guarantor, but you probably need references
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-passports/travel-documents-references-guarantors.html#references