Police Certificate - Country of Origin

[Rutherfords]

Hi Experts,

I need to clarify about providing a new PCC with the citizenship application:

I lived in my country of origin, immediately before I came to Canada. And at the time, I had submitted a PCC with my application for Canadian PR.

However after I received my Canadian PR, I stayed in country of origin, for more than 183 days(approx. 7 months), before I came to Canada. The time I left my country of origin, falls within 4 years.

Am I required to submit a new PCC from there?

Thank you!

 

[terry_dawkins]

You must provide a police certificate for each country or territory where you have been present for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18) for the four (4) years immediately before the date of your application. So, yes.

 

[Rutherfords]

You must provide a police certificate for each country or territory where you have been present for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18) for the four (4) years immediately before the date of your application. So, yes.

Thank you for responding.

However on the official Citizenship Application Guide, it says:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Police certificate(s)

You need to provide a police certificate from each country, other than Canada, if you were there

• in the past 4 years
• for 183 days or more in a row
• since the age of 18

Indicate in the chart the name of each country and provide a police certificate.

You don’t need to provide a police certificate if

• you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
• this time falls within the past 4 years

If you can’t get a police certificate, tell us why in the explanation box.

To be valid, the police certificate must be either issued

• after the last time you were in that country, or
• no more than 6 months before the date you sign your citizenship application

------------------------------------------

So on the one hand I was in another country for 183 days, but that country was my Country of Origin. I do not think the guide explains this detail very well.

@dpenabill explains this here, where he talks about the exceptions at the bottom of his post: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/police-certificate-requirement-not-clear.694233/post-8721331

---------------------------
He says:
There are, however, TWO EXCEPTIONS:
-- if that country is the applicant's country of origin, and the 183 days in a row were BEFORE landing, the Note says no police certificate need be submitted, but the applicant must explain this in the box provided
-- similarly, if the time in that country (any other country) was BEFORE landing, and a police clearance was provided for that country in the PR process, AND the applicant has NOT returned to that country since landing, the PR can explain this and NOT submit a police certificate

-------------------------

Could some experts to please add to this, for clarity's sake. Thank you!

 

[testNewPlace]

Thank you for responding.

However on the official Citizenship Application Guide, it says:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Police certificate(s)

You need to provide a police certificate from each country, other than Canada, if you were there

• in the past 4 years
• for 183 days or more in a row
• since the age of 18

Indicate in the chart the name of each country and provide a police certificate.

You don’t need to provide a police certificate if

• you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
• this time falls within the past 4 years

If you can’t get a police certificate, tell us why in the explanation box.

To be valid, the police certificate must be either issued

• after the last time you were in that country, or
• no more than 6 months before the date you sign your citizenship application

------------------------------------------

So on the one hand I was in another country for 183 days, but that country was my Country of Origin. I do not think the guide explains this detail very well.

@dpenabill explains this here, where he talks about the exceptions at the bottom of his post: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/police-certificate-requirement-not-clear.694233/post-8721331

---------------------------
He says:
There are, however, TWO EXCEPTIONS:
-- if that country is the applicant's country of origin, and the 183 days in a row were BEFORE landing, the Note says no police certificate need be submitted, but the applicant must explain this in the box provided
-- similarly, if the time in that country (any other country) was BEFORE landing, and a police clearance was provided for that country in the PR process, AND the applicant has NOT returned to that country since landing, the PR can explain this and NOT submit a police certificate

-------------------------

Could some experts to please add to this, for clarity's sake. Thank you!

Key condition:
immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada

So yes - you will need a PCC if you went back for more than 183 after becoming PR.
If you send your app out - there is a high chance of it getting sent back during completeness check. Unless you have a lot of time, I would get the PCC and send it along.

 

[Rutherfords]

Key condition:
immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada

So yes - you will need a PCC if you went back for more than 183 after becoming PR.
If you send your app out - there is a high chance of it getting sent back during completeness check. Unless you have a lot of time, I would get the PCC and send it along.

Thanks for responding.

I never went back after landing in Canada.

What Ive written above: After I received my Canadian PR, I stayed back in country of origin, for more than 183 days(approx. 7 months), before I came to Canada. The time I left my country of origin, falls within 4 years. (But I have never gone back to my country of origin after landing here).

My point is - I spent more than 183 days in country of origin after getting PR, but before I first landed in Canada. But I did not get another police certificate after leaving my country of origin. So for those 183 days in country of origin, I don't have a police certificate.

Can someone please speak from experience if they left country of origin at least 6 months after getting PR?

 

[abbas.pasha]

Thanks for responding.

I never went back after landing in Canada.

What Ive written above: After I received my Canadian PR, I stayed back in country of origin, for more than 183 days(approx. 7 months), before I came to Canada. The time I left my country of origin, falls within 4 years. (But I have never gone back to my country of origin after landing here).

My point is - I spent more than 183 days in country of origin after getting PR, but before I first landed in Canada. But I did not get another police certificate after leaving my country of origin. So for those 183 days in country of origin, I don't have a police certificate.

Can someone please speak from experience if they left country of origin at least 6 months after getting PR?

You received the Confirmation of PR (CoPR) when you were in the COO.
When you landed in Canada and completed the landing formalities at the port of landing, you became a Canadian PR after which you did not travel out from Canada

 

[Rutherfords]

You received the Confirmation of PR (CoPR) when you were in the COO.
When you landed in Canada and completed the landing formalities at the port of landing, you became a Canadian PR after which you did not travel out from Canada

There you solved it for me.

Thanks for highlighting that a person becomes a PR only after one lands. I had forgotten this, and considered, receiving the COPR as the day I became PR. And the phrase - "you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada" wasn't making sense.

So the clear answer - that after I became PR, I was never in my country of origin.

So to confirm - I'll tick "Yes" and then provide and explanation - 'I was in my country of origin immediately prior to becoming Permanent Resident'?
Or should I also add - 'I provided a Police Certificate with my Permanent Resident Application'?

 

[abbas.pasha]

There you solved it for me.

Thanks for highlighting that a person becomes a PR only after one lands. I had forgotten this, and considered, receiving the COPR as the day I became PR. And the phrase - "you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada" wasn't making sense.

So the clear answer - that after I became PR, I was never in my country of origin.

So to confirm - I'll tick "Yes" and then provide and explanation - 'I was in my country of origin immediately prior to becoming Permanent Resident'?
Or should I also add - 'I provided a Police Certificate with my Permanent Resident Application'?

I do not know how the question is phrased in the online application.
I applied via the paper based application.
In the paper application form Question 10b says the following:
https://ibb.co/NF9WXJW
So I answered No in the application form.
I hope it helps you make this decision...

 

[Rutherfords]

I do not know how the question is phrased in the online application.
I applied via the paper based application.
In the paper application form Question 10b says the following:
https://ibb.co/NF9WXJW
So I answered No in the application form.
I hope it helps you make this decision...

Your response makes sense. However here is a write up from the official Application Guide:

"See the following examples to help you answer this question.

Example 1
You lived in France for one year (365 days) before you became a permanent resident 3 years ago. You did not travel to France after you became a permanent resident. You would answer “Yes” to the question and you would need to provide a police certificate from France if you did not provide one with your immigration application. If you provided a police certificate from France with your immigration application, tell us this in the box provided at Question 10b."

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html#Step4

-----
Here even though the person provided a Police certificate with their PR Application, they needed to answer 'Yes' and then provide an explanation.

 

[Rutherfords]

I do not know how the question is phrased in the online application.
I applied via the paper based application.
In the paper application form Question 10b says the following:
https://ibb.co/NF9WXJW
So I answered No in the application form.
I hope it helps you make this decision...

This from the guide prepared by @rajkamalmohanram. There he says:
"Q10 (b): In the past four (4) years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?

• Who should answer 'YES' to this?
  • Anybody who has resided in any country other than Canada for 6 months in a row in the past 4 years from the date you are signing your citizenship application should answer 'YES'.
  • This includes time you spent in your home country just before moving to Canada."

Further he writes:
Who should (or should not) provide a police certificate?

• The following is my understanding of who should submit police certificates. Whoever answers 'YES' above should either provide a PCC or an explanation as to why they aren't submitting their PCC.
• A police certificate is only needed (or not needed) as demonstrated by the following examples. (NOTE: Country of origin is NOT the same as country of citizenship).
  • Example 1 -, Raj moved to Canada in June 2017. Assuming Raj signs the citizenship application on 09 October 2020, the "4-year period" would be from 08 October 2016 to 08 October 2020. Though Raj lived in India from 08 October 2016 to June 2017 (greater than 183 days), he does NOT have to provide a Police Certificate because he was in his country of origin immediately prior to establishing permanent residence. But he has to make an entry in the table and explain why he isn't providing a certificate - "Lived in country of origin immediately before establishing PR in Canada".

--------------------------
Point to be noted: One cannot provide an explanation if one does not check 'Yes' and only then may one provide that explanation.

 

[Rutherfords]

This is what's making sense to me, as a proper explanation:

"I was in my country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada. And I had provided a police certificate from 'insert country of origin' with my immigration application."

 

[abbas.pasha]

This from the guide prepared by @rajkamalmohanram. There he says:
"Q10 (b): In the past four (4) years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?

• Who should answer 'YES' to this?
  • Anybody who has resided in any country other than Canada for 6 months in a row in the past 4 years from the date you are signing your citizenship application should answer 'YES'.
  • This includes time you spent in your home country just before moving to Canada."

Further he writes:
Who should (or should not) provide a police certificate?

• The following is my understanding of who should submit police certificates. Whoever answers 'YES' above should either provide a PCC or an explanation as to why they aren't submitting their PCC.
• A police certificate is only needed (or not needed) as demonstrated by the following examples. (NOTE: Country of origin is NOT the same as country of citizenship).
  • Example 1 -, Raj moved to Canada in June 2017. Assuming Raj signs the citizenship application on 09 October 2020, the "4-year period" would be from 08 October 2016 to 08 October 2020. Though Raj lived in India from 08 October 2016 to June 2017 (greater than 183 days), he does NOT have to provide a Police Certificate because he was in his country of origin immediately prior to establishing permanent residence. But he has to make an entry in the table and explain why he isn't providing a certificate - "Lived in country of origin immediately before establishing PR in Canada".

--------------------------
Point to be noted: One cannot provide an explanation if one does not check 'Yes' and only then may one provide that explanation.

Are you applying online or paper ?
The above application guide is for paper based application only...

The reference Raj mentioned must have been through this link:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

 

[Rutherfords]

Are you applying online or paper ?
The above application guide is for paper based application only...

I am applying for family - so will need to submit a paper application.

 

[abbas.pasha]

I am applying for family - so will need to submit a paper application.

OK I read the example again in the application guide...
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Here is what maybe applicable for you...


Example 1

You lived in France for one year (365 days) before you became a permanent resident 3 years ago. You did not travel to France after you became a permanent resident. You would answer “Yes” to the question and you would need to provide a police certificate from France if you did not provide one with your immigration application. If you provided a police certificate from France with your immigration application, tell us this in the box provided at Question 10b.

 

[Rutherfords]

Are you applying online or paper ?
The above application guide is for paper based application only...

The reference Raj mentioned must have been through this link:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Yes that is the official guide and like I posted above, they have provided the example of how to fill this - check 'Yes' and then provide an explanation. This is the France example scenario they've provided on the official guide.

In any case, I think your choosing 'No' would also workout hopefully. Its should be fair enough to choose that too.

Have you already gotten an AOR?