Citizenship query

[footyluv]

Hello ,

I am currently in India and I have received an email from IRCC to submit my fingerprints as part of my Canada citizenship application.

Any idea how I go about submitting my fingerprints while in India?

Also another question I had is, Can I complete the entire citizenship process while being away from Canada?



Thanks

 

[harirajmohan]

Hello ,

I am currently in India and I have received an email from IRCC to submit my fingerprints as part of my Canada citizenship application.

Any idea how I go about submitting my fingerprints while in India?

Also another question I had is, Can I complete the entire citizenship process while being away from Canada?



Thanks

You can submit fingerprints from aborad
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/steps-getting-a-certified-criminal-record-check

2 weeks ago they started allowing people to attend test from outisde.
Yesterday they started announcing to allow candidates to attend oath from abroad. So its possible to finish entire process from being abroad.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

You can submit fingerprints from aborad
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/steps-getting-a-certified-criminal-record-check

2 weeks ago they started allowing people to attend test from outisde.
Yesterday they started announcing to allow candidates to attend oath from abroad. So its possible to finish entire process from being abroad.

Everything is right except the "Oath outside Canada" suggestion.

I wouldn't recommend advising applicants they can take oath abroad until we are ABSOLULTELY SURE. We don't yet know if applicants can take the oath abroad as there is no explicit information. Please see my post here. We should wait for someone to try this option and confirm that IRCC has indeed allowed the applicant to attend the oath ceremony from outside Canada.

 

[harirajmohan]

Everything is right except the "Oath outside Canada" suggestion.

I wouldn't recommend advising applicants they can take oath abroad until we are ABSOLULTELY SURE. We don't yet know if applicants can take the oath abroad as there is no explicit information. Please see my post here. We should wait for someone to try this option and confirm that IRCC has indeed allowed the applicant to attend the oath ceremony from outside Canada.

We reread and interpret too much without any insight. There is no difference in text for Test and Oath. Test is being allowed hence its same way for oath too.

Earlier they were not allowing. For not allowing, they dont need to update the site. They would have simply followed the current process by telling them to come inside Canada to take(and they have updated the site in 2020 to be present inside the country after pandemic started and now in 2021 they updated that too). So they are allowing to take it from outside.

There is no logistical issues on certificate/etc which we can anyway get it shipped from Canada or they can even mail it to abroad address directly as its just a piece of paper certificate(not a passport for some countries to block/deny it).

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/citizenship.html
Test:
In your email

• put “Outside Canada – Citizenship Test” in the subject line
• in the body of your message, include
  • your full name
  • your application number
  • the start and end date for your test

We’ll contact you with your next steps after we receive your email.

Oath:
In your email

• put “Outside Canada – Oath of Citizenship” in the subject line
• In the body of your message, include
  • your full name
  • your application number
  • a detailed explanation of your situation

We’ll contact you with your next steps after we receive your email.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

We reread and interpret too much without any insight. There is no difference in text for Test and Oath. Test is being allowed hence its same way for oath too.

Earlier they were not allowing. For not allowing, they dont need to update the site. They would have simply followed the current process by telling them to come inside Canada to take(and they have updated the site in 2020 to be present inside the country after pandemic started and now in 2021 they updated that too). So they are allowing to take it from outside.

There is no logistical issues on certificate/etc which we can anyway get it shipped from Canada or they can even mail it to abroad address directly as its just a piece of paper certificate(not a passport for some countries to block/deny it).

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/citizenship.html
Test:
In your email

• put “Outside Canada – Citizenship Test” in the subject line
• in the body of your message, include
  • your full name
  • your application number
  • the start and end date for your test

We’ll contact you with your next steps after we receive your email.

Oath:
In your email

• put “Outside Canada – Oath of Citizenship” in the subject line
• In the body of your message, include
  • your full name
  • your application number
  • a detailed explanation of your situation

We’ll contact you with your next steps after we receive your email.

Well, I would strongly recommend you look at the difference in content between test and oath more carefully.

You have skipped some parts of the content for both test and oath.

The content you skipped for Citizenship Test before "In your email" :

If you get your invitation and plan to take the test while you’re outside Canada, send an email to the address in the Eligibility section of your invitation.

The content you skipped for Citizenship Ceremony/Oath before "In your email" :

You need to be in Canada to take the Oath of Citizenship. If you get your invitation while you’re outside Canada, reply to the invitation email to explain your situation in detail.

Pay attention to this additional content for oath (which is certainly different from the test). "... a detailed explanation of your situation" is seen for oath but not the test.

The last thing we want is to advise applicants (without being absolutely sure) that all applicants outside Canada will be allowed to take oath overseas. We don't want to spread misinformation. As you are well aware, there have been some cases where the applicant requested to take the test outside Canada but IRCC asked them to reschedule instead.

I'm not saying the applicants cannot take the oath outside Canada - I'm just saying don't present that option as a fact when we do NOT know all the information yet. The mere fact that IRCC is asking for a detailed explanation of the situation for applicants who are overseas with an oath invitation suggests that IRCC might take a case-by-case approach for oath outside Canada and not all applicants might be allowed to take the oath overseas. If IRCC intended to allow all applicants to take the oath outside, they probably wouldn't ask for a "detailed explanation of the situation".

That is why I said we'll have to wait for forum members to try this option and then post IRCC's response to their request. We can then begin to understand who can take the oath outside and who can't and what will the process of receiving the citizenship certificate look like if someone takes oath outside Canada. We don't currently have any of this information, so, IMHO, let's not present this option as a fact.

 

[Das67]

Well, I would strongly recommend you look at the difference in content between test and oath more carefully.

You have skipped some part of the content for both test and oath.

The content you skipped for Citizenship Test before "In your email" :

If you get your invitation and plan to take the test while you’re outside Canada, send an email to the address in the Eligibility section of your invitation.

The content you skipped for Citizenship Ceremony/Oath before "In your email" :

You need to be in Canada to take the Oath of Citizenship. If you get your invitation while you’re outside Canada, reply to the invitation email to explain your situation in detail.

There is ALSO another part that that differentiates test from oath. "... a detailed explanation of your situation" is seen for oath but not the test.

The last thing we want is to advise applicants (without being absolutely sure) that all applicants outside Canada will be allowed to take oath overseas. We don't want to spread misinformation. As you are well aware, there have been some cases where the applicant requested to take the test outside Canada but IRCC asked them to reschedule instead.

I'm not saying the applicants cannot take the oath outside Canada - I'm just saying don't present that option as a fact when we do NOT know all the information yet. The mere fact that IRCC is asking for a detailed explanation of the situation for applicants who are overseas with an oath invitation suggests that IRCC might take a case-by-case approach for oath outside Canada and not all applicants might be allowed to take the oath overseas. If IRCC intended to allow all applicants to take the oath outside, they probably wouldn't ask for a "detailed explanation of the situation".

That is why I said we'll have to wait for forum members to try this option and then post IRCC's response to their request. We can then begin to understand who can take the oath outside and who can't.

Agreed, as per July 08 2021 IRCC updated the oath information on their website and most of the update doesn't include citizenship grant under subsection 5(1) ( which most of us applied under) even taking it outside. Below is what their website says and no where subsection 5(1) is mentioned.

Taking the Oath outside of Canada: If an applicant has been granted citizenship under subsection 5(2), 5(4) or 11(1) of the Citizenship Act [including a person who is serving or has served in or with the Canadian Armed Forces and who meets the service requirement found in subsection 11(1.1) or 11 (1.2)] and is located outside of Canada, the Oath of Citizenship may be administered by a foreign service officer—see paragraph 20(1)(b) of the citizenship regulations.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/ceremony/oath.html

 

[harirajmohan]

Well, I would strongly recommend you look at the difference in content between test and oath more carefully.

You have skipped some parts of the content for both test and oath.

The content you skipped for Citizenship Test before "In your email" :

If you get your invitation and plan to take the test while you’re outside Canada, send an email to the address in the Eligibility section of your invitation.

The content you skipped for Citizenship Ceremony/Oath before "In your email" :

You need to be in Canada to take the Oath of Citizenship. If you get your invitation while you’re outside Canada, reply to the invitation email to explain your situation in detail.

Pay attention to this additional content for oath (which is certainly different from the test). "... a detailed explanation of your situation" is seen for oath but not the test.

The last thing we want is to advise applicants (without being absolutely sure) that all applicants outside Canada will be allowed to take oath overseas. We don't want to spread misinformation. As you are well aware, there have been some cases where the applicant requested to take the test outside Canada but IRCC asked them to reschedule instead.

I'm not saying the applicants cannot take the oath outside Canada - I'm just saying don't present that option as a fact when we do NOT know all the information yet. The mere fact that IRCC is asking for a detailed explanation of the situation for applicants who are overseas with an oath invitation suggests that IRCC might take a case-by-case approach for oath outside Canada and not all applicants might be allowed to take the oath overseas. If IRCC intended to allow all applicants to take the oath outside, they probably wouldn't ask for a "detailed explanation of the situation".

That is why I said we'll have to wait for forum members to try this option and then post IRCC's response to their request. We can then begin to understand who can take the oath outside and who can't and what will the process of receiving the citizenship certificate look like if someone takes oath outside Canada. We don't currently have any of this information, so, IMHO, let's not present this option as a fact.

Here is what the history is:
Mar-Apr 2020: People were telling that test and oath wont be given online.
May 2020: Oath were given online. At that time people here started telling that it will be only for those emergency requests etc.
Jun-Oct2020: People were telling that they wont bring online tests to avoid cheating in exam etc.
Jun2020 onwards: Oath started online for all.
Dec2020: We started giving test online.
Till Jun2021: People told that they wont allow test to be taken from outside. We know what happened.

Also all of the members who applied knew that they need to come inside Canada to give test and oath. So all are aware that its new for all of us including the OP. Also i mentioned that it came out yesterday hence all knew that cic has not conducted any oath yet hence it cant be a fact when i am just telling the news to the OP.

Rescheduled test when requested to take outside: It was miscommunication from cic to do it on time. Its open for all now.
"Detailed explanation" to be given for oath request, not for test: Asking for valid reason is not a showstopper for getting request accepted for oath.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Here is what the history is:
Mar-Apr 2020: People were telling that test and oath wont be given online.
May 2020: Oath were given online. At that time people here started telling that it will be only for those emergency requests etc.
Jun-Oct2020: People were telling that they wont bring online tests to avoid cheating in exam etc.
Jun2020 onwards: Oath started online for all.
Dec2020: We started giving test online.
Till Jun2021: People told that they wont allow test to be taken from outside. We know what happened.

Also all of the members who applied knew that they need to come inside Canada to give test and oath. So all are aware that its new for all of us including the OP. Also i mentioned that it came out yesterday hence all knew that cic has not conducted any oath yet hence it cant be a fact when i am just telling the news to the OP.

Rescheduled test when requested to take outside: It was miscommunication from cic to do it on time. Its open for all now.
"Detailed explanation" to be given for oath request, not for test: Asking for valid reason is not a showstopper for getting request accepted for oath.

At the risk of repeating myself...

I'm not saying the applicants cannot take the oath outside Canada - I'm just saying don't present that option as a fact when we do NOT know all the information yet. The mere fact that IRCC is asking for a detailed explanation of the situation for applicants who are overseas with an oath invitation suggests that IRCC might take a case-by-case approach for oath outside Canada and not all applicants might be allowed to take the oath overseas. If IRCC intended to allow all applicants to take the oath outside, they probably wouldn't ask for a "detailed explanation of the situation".

That is why I said we'll have to wait for forum members to try this option and then post IRCC's response to their request. We can then begin to understand who can take the oath outside and who can't and what will the process of receiving the citizenship certificate look like if someone takes oath outside Canada. We don't currently have any of this information, so, IMHO, let's not present this option as a fact.

You and I don't know what the process of taking oath looks like outside Canada. Yes, that might be an option now, I am not denying that. Just saying do NOT assume it will be like the test BECAUSE WE CAN'T BE SURE AND WE DO NOT KNOW YET.

Yes, people said all those things in the timeline you mentioned in your post, I'm not arguing with that either. That is all true.

My only qualm is with the following sentence in your post :

"Yesterday they started announcing to allow candidates to attend oath from abroad."

No, they didn't. It doesn't say you can take oath outside Canada yet. It says "You need to be in Canada to take the Oath of Citizenship. If you get your invitation while you’re outside Canada, reply to the invitation email to explain your situation in detail. "

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying wait for either IRCC or forum applicants to post an update about this confirming they were indeed allowed to take oath outside Canada and then you can say "...they started announcing to allow candidates to attend oath from abroad." with some evidence and some level of certainty. They might allow applicants to take oath outside Canada but what if IRCC has some criteria and has discretion on who can take the test outside and who can't ? Once we get to know more and more information about the process, things will be more clear and we could discuss this with some certainty.

I also want this to be true because rescheduling oath causes further backlog. When the applicant comes back to Canada, they will have to find a slot to accommodate him/her and that will delay the oath date for other citizenship applicants who are already in Canada. But claiming that IRCC has allowed applicants to take oath outside Canada without a single confirmed report or evidence isn't really the way to go about it.

Peace

 

[maxpayne]

Everything is right except the "Oath outside Canada" suggestion.

I wouldn't recommend advising applicants they can take oath abroad until we are ABSOLULTELY SURE. We don't yet know if applicants can take the oath abroad as there is no explicit information. Please see my post here. We should wait for someone to try this option and confirm that IRCC has indeed allowed the applicant to attend the oath ceremony from outside Canada.

During my oath, agent specifically asked if I was in Canada. My oath was on 14th.

Also we have to destroy our PR card after oath. If we are outside Canada, how can we enter back into Canada.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

During my oath, agent specifically asked if I was in Canada. My oath was on 14th.

Also we have to destroy our PR card after oath. If we are outside Canada, how can we enter back into Canada.

There was a new update on the website for oath as you can see from the discussion above. While it doesn't explicitly say you can take the oath from outside Canada, it has asked applicants to respond to the email ID in the oath invitation with a "detailed explanation of the situation". It MAY mean that some applicants might be able to take oath outside but we do NOT know for sure as we have not seen any reports of people taking oath outside Canada yet. There might be a new workflow where IRCC sends the citizenship certificate to the local embassy that is responsible for the location that the applicant currently is in but we can't be sure until we see some cases like this.

 

[MrChazz]

At the risk of repeating myself...

I'm not saying the applicants cannot take the oath outside Canada - I'm just saying don't present that option as a fact when we do NOT know all the information yet. The mere fact that IRCC is asking for a detailed explanation of the situation for applicants who are overseas with an oath invitation suggests that IRCC might take a case-by-case approach for oath outside Canada and not all applicants might be allowed to take the oath overseas. If IRCC intended to allow all applicants to take the oath outside, they probably wouldn't ask for a "detailed explanation of the situation".

That is why I said we'll have to wait for forum members to try this option and then post IRCC's response to their request. We can then begin to understand who can take the oath outside and who can't and what will the process of receiving the citizenship certificate look like if someone takes oath outside Canada. We don't currently have any of this information, so, IMHO, let's not present this option as a fact.

You and I don't know what the process of taking oath looks like outside Canada. Yes, that might be an option now, I am not denying that. Just saying do NOT assume it will be like the test BECAUSE WE CAN'T BE SURE AND WE DO NOT KNOW YET.

Yes, people said all those things in the timeline you mentioned in your post, I'm not arguing with that either. That is all true.

My only qualm is with the following sentence in your post :

"Yesterday they started announcing to allow candidates to attend oath from abroad."

No, they didn't. It doesn't say you can take oath outside Canada yet. It says "You need to be in Canada to take the Oath of Citizenship. If you get your invitation while you’re outside Canada, reply to the invitation email to explain your situation in detail. "

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying wait for either IRCC or forum applicants to post an update about this confirming they were indeed allowed to take oath outside Canada and then you can say "...they started announcing to allow candidates to attend oath from abroad." with some evidence and some level of certainty. They might allow applicants to take oath outside Canada but what if IRCC has some criteria and has discretion on who can take the test outside and who can't ? Once we get to know more and more information about the process, things will be more clear and we could discuss this with some certainty.

I also want this to be true because rescheduling oath causes further backlog. When the applicant comes back to Canada, they will have to find a slot to accommodate him/her and that will delay the oath date for other citizenship applicants who are already in Canada. But claiming that IRCC has allowed applicants to take oath outside Canada without a single confirmed report or evidence isn't really the way to go about it.

Peace

It doesn't seem like anyone is paying attention, or they simply want to interpret whatever they read in a manner that suits their fantasies. The wording in the latest new-and-improved information seems clear enough. All it says is basically, "if you get an invitation to take the oath and happen to be outside the country, then let us know". That's it. I really don't know where all these wild dreams are coming from.

Canada, like many countries with a proper system, has long had regulations in place that allow some people to take citizenship oaths from outside the country in exceptional situations. The key word there is exceptional, and that does not include "invited for oath but happen to be outside the country". To those who dream otherwise, please review the regulations prior to covid and then review any changes you think have occurred or been announced since the pandemic started.

In my opinion, IRCC is probably playing games---"we are really trying to help in these tough times!"---although I might just be too cynical at this point ... My guess: excluding the sort of situation in which overseas oath was allowed even before the pandemic, IRCC will not allow overseas oath taking for regular cases. If I am wrong, then I will contribute $100 for the maintenance of this website.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

It doesn't seem like anyone is paying attention, or they simply want to interpret whatever they read in a manner that suits their fantasies. The wording in the latest new-and-improved information seems clear enough. All it says is basically, "if you get an invitation to take the oath and happen to be outside the country, then let us know". That's it. I really don't know where all these wild dreams are coming from.

Canada, like many countries with a proper system, has long had regulations in place that allow some people to take citizenship oaths from outside the country in exceptional situations. The key word there is exceptional, and that does not include "invited for oath but happen to be outside the country". To those who dream otherwise, please review the regulations prior to covid and then review any changes you think have occurred or been announced since the pandemic started.

In my opinion, IRCC is probably playing games---"we are really trying to help in these tough times!"---although I might just be too cynical at this point ... My guess: excluding the sort of situation in which overseas oath was allowed even before the pandemic, IRCC will not allow overseas oath taking for regular cases. If I am wrong, then I will contribute $100 for the maintenance of this website.

Well, I'm not that cynical (just yet). I'm open to the possibility of that happening and I welcome the move (because we don't want applicants rescheduling the oath ceremony and taking up other people's spot when the come back to Canada).

I'm just a little skeptical about it and I would like to see some reports and IRCC responses (like how we saw reports from applicants who posted responses from IRCC for the test outside Canada) before I start believing this is true and telling other applicants about it.

We don't know anything yet so I'm not going to say "IRCC has started allowed applicants to take oath outside Canada" (I've never said that). I will wait and watch for any posts about this and see if there are developments in the coming days. I won't be surprised though IF this is offered as an option to applicants.

 

[MrChazz]

Well, I'm not that cynical (just yet). I'm open to the possibility of that happening and I welcome the move (because we don't want applicants rescheduling the oath ceremony and taking up other people's spot when the come back to Canada).

I'm just a little skeptical about it and I would like to see some reports and IRCC responses (like how we saw reports from applicants who posted responses from IRCC for the test outside Canada) before I start believing this is true and telling other applicants about it.

We don't know anything yet so I'm not going to say "IRCC has started allowed applicants to take oath outside Canada" (I've never said that). I will wait and watch for any posts about this and see if there are developments in the coming days. I won't be surprised though IF this is offered as an option to applicants.

Certainly, anything is possible; indeed, I am desperate enough to want anything! Perhaps IRCC could decide that allowing for oaths from outside the country would help clear backlogs. I hope so! But I doubt that the backlog would be much helped by out-of-country oaths.

One of the things I find amazing about the IRCC is how long it has taken them to adjust to the pandemic and, when they eventually got to it, how half-hearted they have been about it. There seems to be a really strong desire to stick with just the symbolism of the old system, without taking into consideration the exceptional times we are and have been in.

The oath ceremony is a good example. Done virtually, what exactly is the limit to how many can be accommodated at one go? Funny little bits like "hold up your PR card, and let's see you cut it into pieces". In the old days, the symbolism was something like "you are now a citizen, not a mere PR" or whatever. And the point now? If it is, like some have suggested, to invalidate the PR card, then, surely, that can be done on some computer system.

So many people are stuck waiting for oaths, but what exactly is so important about any aspect of that---especially after people have gone through all sorts of rigorous checks and sometimes even waited for years? The idea that in exceptional times mere symbolism could be temporarily set aside does not seem to have occurred to anyone!

 

[CaBeaver]

...

One of the things I find amazing about the IRCC is how long it has taken them to adjust to the pandemic and, when they eventually got to it, how half-hearted they have been about it. There seems to be a really strong desire to stick with just the symbolism of the old system, without taking into consideration the exceptional times we are and have been in.

...

They have been slowly and reluctantly adapting. Even now after 15 months of the new reality, they are are still not fully adapted. From some reports it seems that no one worked on applications for a good part of 2020!! The question is why? Businesses adapted almost immediately, and continued their business almost without disruptions, especially those that didn't require extensive in-person interactions. Online applications, tests, interviews and oaths were implemented late. Until this day PR applications are paper-based. It could easily be made online. It's easier for them to process and track applications online, yet they still prefer paper applications.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

They have been slowly and reluctantly adapting. Even now after 15 months of the new reality, they are are still not fully adapted. From some reports it seems that no one worked on applications for a good part of 2020!! The question is why? Businesses adapted almost immediately, and continued their business almost without disruptions, especially those that didn't require extensive in-person interactions. Online applications, tests, interviews and oaths were implemented late. Until this day PR applications are paper-based. It could easily be made online. It's easier for them to process and track applications online, yet they still prefer paper applications.

PR applications for FSW, CEC, FST and most PNP (Economic Immigration Programs) are offered online handled under the Express Entry program since 2015. However, there are some applications that are still paper based, I think (or at least it was in 2015 - 2017) => These are mostly PR obtained via provincial nomination outside the Express Entry system.

Dependent sponsorship programs (spouse / child) are still paper based => This could be turned into an online application but they haven't done that yet.

Also, applications for passports could be made into an online application instead of having to visit the passport office or mail the application to Gatineau. A departmental report suggests that there might be some modernization in the Passport Program (possibly online applications for passport) and this could happen in 2023.

The Passport Program must continue to advance its modernization agenda to ensure that its systems and service offerings keep pace with international standards and client expectations. The Passport Program is pro-actively positioning its modernization efforts to align with the start of the next business cycle in 2023, when volumes are expected to increase as the first wave of 10-year passports expire. Once such effort is the Passport Program Modernization Initiative (PPMI), the Program’s largest investment, which requires regular and effective coordination and collaboration among multiple federal departments. In 2019–20, IRCC advanced PPMI by piloting and deploying the solution within IRCC. The Passport Program will continue to focus on implementing the new issuance platform in Canada that will improve efficiency, strengthen security, and increase Canadians’ access to passport services.

There is certainly room for improvement and hopefully, IRCC will further modernize the platforms and switch to online applications at least for the major application types (Family applications, PR card renewals, Passports) in the near future.