Out of Canada for more than 3 years..wants to return..wont able to meet RO

[vddelhi]

Just to give an idea.. I am From India..PR card holder of Canada..
i soft landed on 20h Feb 2018....my 5 year window will expire in feb 2023.....i soft landed with my family (wife and two kids)
Till date, i have travelled to Canada two times (Feb 2018- 10 days ..and Jan 2019----20 days) and stayed there for 1 month only in totality...
I came back to India in Jan 2019 and for last two years couldnt travel back to Canada due to personal reasons which further added by covid related issues/fear/apprehensions...Only child of my parents....
now, wishes to travel back to Canada...in next 2-3 months....and live there permanently....as and when situation improves and flights resumes (Flights are closed from India to Canada now a days)...

But... at the time of entering Canada now....i wont be able to complete my RO of 730 days till Feb 2023....that is for sure....though i will be having intentions of started living permanently there now..... PLLZZ HELPP in explaining few things to me now.....
1) Will i surely be reported at the Airport now for not able to meet RO in coming days....when i will be travelling back to Canada in few months...?...What are the consequences......
2) Can immigration officer deny my entry into Canada too..
3) What are my chances to get my PR card renewed.....
4) Whether Govt of Canda not considering anything or giving any relaxation for not meeting RO due to Covid .....
5) If i will be reported..what are my chances of getting my PR card renewed..
6) Shall i write to Indian Canadian Embassy or CIC for that matter explaining my situation and try to get extension of meeting RO obligations..does that even an option......

PLZZZZZ Help

 

[armoured]

1) Will i surely be reported at the Airport now for not able to meet RO in coming days....when i will be travelling back to Canada in few months...?...What are the consequences......

You could be reported but given reasonable explanation (if asked) about covid-caused delays and whatever other reasons you have, a decent chance you will not be reported. If you return soon, probably a good chance. No guarantee.

2) Can immigration officer deny my entry into Canada too..

No. They can report you which would ultimately start process of revoking PR status. You remain in Canada during appeal, etc. Appeal process would consider the same circumstances including covid etc.

3) What are my chances to get my PR card renewed.....

Chances are very good if you apply when you are in compliance with RO, i.e. after two continuous years in canada (if I understand your dates correctly). If you remain in Canada, it does not matter (for most immigration purposes) that your card is expired for some period of time, you are still a legal resident.

4) Whether Govt of Canda not considering anything or giving any relaxation for not meeting RO due to Covid .....

No. The 'relaxation' is already built into the system in that border officer, IRCC and appeals process must consider extenuating circumstances, humanitarian and compassionate, etc (however you wish to name them). Covid will not excuse all non-compliance but it is a real and obvious external circumstance.

5) If i will be reported..what are my chances of getting my PR card renewed..

See above. If reported, you'd first appeal, if appeal won, remain in Canada, renew when you are in compliance with RO.

6) Shall i write to Indian Canadian Embassy or CIC for that matter explaining my situation and try to get extension of meeting RO obligations..does that even an option......

Indian High Commission has no role. IRCC will not give any guarantees or pre-approval. You travel, arrive at the border and make your case and rely on the process.

Warning on two key points: if you arrive and are admitted with no issues, you should expect to travel as little as possible until back in compliance. Lenience today does not guarantee you lenience in future.

You do not specify where your wife and kids are. If they are out of Canada and also not compliant, might get complicated (ideally they would arrive with or shortly after you).

If they are in Canada and have remained there and are compliant, this is a positive in some sense for you as you are rejoining family and this is a 'humanitarian and compassionate' factor.

Good luck. Best short advice in summary is your chances of problems are lower the sooner you return to Canada.

 

[vddelhi]

You could be reported but given reasonable explanation (if asked) about covid-caused delays and whatever other reasons you have, a decent chance you will not be reported. If you return soon, probably a good chance. No guarantee.



No. They can report you which would ultimately start process of revoking PR status. You remain in Canada during appeal, etc. Appeal process would consider the same circumstances including covid etc.



Chances are very good if you apply when you are in compliance with RO, i.e. after two continuous years in canada (if I understand your dates correctly). If you remain in Canada, it does not matter (for most immigration purposes) that your card is expired for some period of time, you are still a legal resident.



No. The 'relaxation' is already built into the system in that border officer, IRCC and appeals process must consider extenuating circumstances, humanitarian and compassionate, etc (however you wish to name them). Covid will not excuse all non-compliance but it is a real and obvious external circumstance.



See above. If reported, you'd first appeal, if appeal won, remain in Canada, renew when you are in compliance with RO.



Indian High Commission has no role. IRCC will not give any guarantees or pre-approval. You travel, arrive at the border and make your case and rely on the process.

Warning on two key points: if you arrive and are admitted with no issues, you should expect to travel as little as possible until back in compliance. Lenience today does not guarantee you lenience in future.

You do not specify where your wife and kids are. If they are out of Canada and also not compliant, might get complicated (ideally they would arrive with or shortly after you).

If they are in Canada and have remained there and are compliant, this is a positive in some sense for you as you are rejoining family and this is a 'humanitarian and compassionate' factor.

Good luck. Best short advice in summary is your chances of problems are lower the sooner you return to Canada.

Thanks a lot Armoured for a quick revert.....that explains a lot.....My wife and Kids are with me in India only...So, we all are in same situation....
I just have a bank account in Canada as of now which is still active....For Canadian connections, i just have that to show.....
and yeah ofcourse few friends whose testimonies can only be submitted at the time of hearing i guess....

Just one last suggestion, do we have any success stories/experiences of someone who were in similar situation like me....and who entered Canada without being reported.....any specific set of actions or behaviour that i have to demonstrate at Airport to not to get reported plz....
It would be really helpful for some guidance in this regard.....

 

[armoured]

Thanks a lot Armoured for a quick revert.....that explains a lot.....My wife and Kids are with me in India only...So, we all are in same situation....
I just have a bank account in Canada as of now which is still active....For Canadian connections, i just have that to show.....
and yeah ofcourse few friends whose testimonies can only be submitted at the time of hearing i guess....

Just one last suggestion, do we have any success stories/experiences of someone who were in similar situation like me....and who entered Canada without being reported.....any specific set of actions or behaviour that i have to demonstrate at Airport to not to get reported plz....
It would be really helpful for some guidance in this regard.....

I was quite neutral in my explanation above about the chances. The question of what your chances are of being reported and having issues are comes down to a lot of factors we do not know, etc. As well as anecdotal reports from others, etc.

If you want 'succes stories/experiences' - read through threads here. There are unfortunately never enough to get complete comfort - it's anecdotes and sporadic reports, not data. (You may see, though, that those who had issues - ie were reported - usually have much more serious out-of-compliance issues than what you describe above). There are somewhat fewer reports of problems during covid - perhaps because fewer travellers in total. Note success stories - being waved through - are naturally reported less because people tend to come to the forum with questions when they have problems.

The reality is that a fairly large number of slightly out-of-compliance PRs get admitted all the time without being reported and don't have issues. They are just waved through and are fine. (No, I can't define slightly precisely).

Under covid, it is fairly clear that CBSA and others recognize that covid is a real issue that has prevented some from travelling and returning to Canada - whether because of explicit travel limitations (like the current India travel ban), personal complications (health, etc), or simply fear of travelling during covid. There is no comprehensive source to be able to tell - but to the extent there are reports, it seems like many out-of-compliance travellers are being let in with only some additional questioning.

My opinion - only an opinion - is that it is quite likely that a lot of out-of-compliance travellers will either not get reported or will be successful in appealing - in part because it is highly likely that eg the appeals process will simply have to recognize that when the Canadian government is putting out travel advisories and measures that are almost screaming 'do not travel.' (And if you work back - CBSA officers don't like the extra work of doing the reports if they have a strong sense that their decisions to report will be unsuccessful when PRs appeal.)

So my guess: if you return as soon as you are logistically able to (eg when the India travel ban is lifted), the chances are good you will be let in and waved through. Or to put some rough dates, when a significant portion of the Canadian population is vaccinated (sometime this summer, perhaps late summer). If you wait until end-2022, chances will be appreciably lower. Arrive the day before your PR card expires - lower still.

No-one can give you 'advice' here, or at least not advice that can be relied on - only (more or less informed) guesses. You have to decide yourself what to do.

A few small points:
-Right now the case that you can best make is that you are out of compliance primarily for covid reasons (travel limitations, health, fear, Cdn govt advising not to travel). And secondarily your family responsibilities with parents made moving the whole family more difficult.

-Your 'ties to Canada' are weak but probably won't come up or won't be decisive. You landed in 2018 but had responsibilities at home, family, etc., and plans to return to Canada much earlier were ... [because covid.]

-Your family: I assume all the members of your family (wife and two kids) are PRs with valid cards. Since there is some risk involved, you could consider having you come first and rest of family join shortly afterwards (eg if you are admitted without any issues). Or travel all together, even if you are all reported (which I think unlikely but no guarantees), you'd all be admitted and allowed to appeal (and have good chances on appeal too).

All the above caveated with - this is a forum, use at own risk, not experts, past is not reliable predictor of future, etc.

Despite the caveats, if you are serious about settling in Canada, return soonest, and your chances are probably good.

 

[vddelhi]

I was quite neutral in my explanation above about the chances. The question of what your chances are of being reported and having issues are comes down to a lot of factors we do not know, etc. As well as anecdotal reports from others, etc.

If you want 'succes stories/experiences' - read through threads here. There are unfortunately never enough to get complete comfort - it's anecdotes and sporadic reports, not data. (You may see, though, that those who had issues - ie were reported - usually have much more serious out-of-compliance issues than what you describe above). There are somewhat fewer reports of problems during covid - perhaps because fewer travellers in total. Note success stories - being waved through - are naturally reported less because people tend to come to the forum with questions when they have problems.

The reality is that a fairly large number of slightly out-of-compliance PRs get admitted all the time without being reported and don't have issues. They are just waved through and are fine. (No, I can't define slightly precisely).

Under covid, it is fairly clear that CBSA and others recognize that covid is a real issue that has prevented some from travelling and returning to Canada - whether because of explicit travel limitations (like the current India travel ban), personal complications (health, etc), or simply fear of travelling during covid. There is no comprehensive source to be able to tell - but to the extent there are reports, it seems like many out-of-compliance travellers are being let in with only some additional questioning.

My opinion - only an opinion - is that it is quite likely that a lot of out-of-compliance travellers will either not get reported or will be successful in appealing - in part because it is highly likely that eg the appeals process will simply have to recognize that when the Canadian government is putting out travel advisories and measures that are almost screaming 'do not travel.' (And if you work back - CBSA officers don't like the extra work of doing the reports if they have a strong sense that their decisions to report will be unsuccessful when PRs appeal.)

So my guess: if you return as soon as you are logistically able to (eg when the India travel ban is lifted), the chances are good you will be let in and waved through. Or to put some rough dates, when a significant portion of the Canadian population is vaccinated (sometime this summer, perhaps late summer). If you wait until end-2022, chances will be appreciably lower. Arrive the day before your PR card expires - lower still.

No-one can give you 'advice' here, or at least not advice that can be relied on - only (more or less informed) guesses. You have to decide yourself what to do.

A few small points:
-Right now the case that you can best make is that you are out of compliance primarily for covid reasons (travel limitations, health, fear, Cdn govt advising not to travel). And secondarily your family responsibilities with parents made moving the whole family more difficult.

-Your 'ties to Canada' are weak but probably won't come up or won't be decisive. You landed in 2018 but had responsibilities at home, family, etc., and plans to return to Canada much earlier were ... [because covid.]

-Your family: I assume all the members of your family (wife and two kids) are PRs with valid cards. Since there is some risk involved, you could consider having you come first and rest of family join shortly afterwards (eg if you are admitted without any issues). Or travel all together, even if you are all reported (which I think unlikely but no guarantees), you'd all be admitted and allowed to appeal (and have good chances on appeal too).

All the above caveated with - this is a forum, use at own risk, not experts, past is not reliable predictor of future, etc.

Despite the caveats, if you are serious about settling in Canada, return soonest, and your chances are probably good.

Thanks for detailed and honest reply.....
Much Appreciated...!!!

 

[armoured]

Thanks for detailed and honest reply.....
Much Appreciated...!!!

A small additional note: a not-uncommon trend on this forum consists of PRs in rougly-similar situations, they get variations on my comments above, and then ... six to twelve months later they haven't travelled back to Canada (because reasons) and want to know what the chances are.

And the answer is ... lower than they were when the question was first asked.

If the goal is to settle in Canada, permanently - return sooner. If the goal is to delay until the last possible moment (because reasons) - well, that's the decision you made and you take your chances.

Perhaps the reasons will be accepted and no problem, perhaps not (no-one here can possibly know); but the risk of issues is higher and increases as the extent of non-compliance does.

So hopefully you won't be asking the same question in six months or a year )).

 

[vddelhi]

A small additional note: a not-uncommon trend on this forum consists of PRs in rougly-similar situations, they get variations on my comments above, and then ... six to twelve months later they haven't travelled back to Canada (because reasons) and want to know what the chances are.

And the answer is ... lower than they were when the question was first asked.

If the goal is to settle in Canada, permanently - return sooner. If the goal is to delay until the last possible moment (because reasons) - well, that's the decision you made and you take your chances.

Perhaps the reasons will be accepted and no problem, perhaps not (no-one here can possibly know); but the risk of issues is higher and increases as the extent of non-compliance does.

So hopefully you won't be asking the same question in six months or a year )).

Got it...!!!!
TBH, i am very serious about shifting to Canada ASAP.... and the Covid situation in my home country i.e. India has even acted like a catalyst now.....
its just that, i am planning to shift with my entire family....will resign from my current employer and will start a new life in Canada.... However, the failure to comply the RO made me little nervous...coz, i am gona make it ALL IN from my side this time..... so wanted to know the risks and chances..... dont want to be in situation where i leave everything behind and 2 years down the line i will be kicked out of Canada too.. :-((((((
thats why asked this.... dont wana abuse the system for sure....!!!!

 

[armoured]

dont want to be in situation where i leave everything behind and 2 years down the line i will be kicked out of Canada too..

If you are admitted without a report on arrival, to generalize, you should be okay. (And if win on appeal after a report).

The main thing after that is to not apply for PR card renewal until you are back in RO compliance and limit travel abroad (ideally to nil).

And there, the key thing to understand is that the PR card is NOT your PR status and you will be residing in Canada legally.

 

[kingofpsg]

Hi Armoured
Query on the

point you just stated above. If someone's PR card has expired, can they still work legally? Are they eligible for benefits which are given to PRs. Like child care, healthcare etc?

 

[armoured]

Hi Armoured
Query on the

point you just stated above. If someone's PR card has expired, can they still work legally? Are they eligible for benefits which are given to PRs. Like child care, healthcare etc?

PR card itself has no relationship to ability to work. A PR in Canada can work - period.

For most other issues: there is an important distinction between the cases above - a PR arriving a little bit out of compliance likely has a year or more to do things like register for provincial health plans etc. I think in most cases the expiry of the card has no impact on their existing coverage/participation in provincial plan as long as they comply with all other program requirements.

Second case - a PR who is in Canada, out of compliance, with a long-expired PR card, and who has not been or qualified as covered under provincial health plans. Some provinces may or will require a current PR card to join the provincial health plan (or they may accept a card that expired say a year ago, i.e. not too far out of validity).

So can't answer your question really - but overall a PR who arrives with only some months out-of-compliance and with a card that's valid for a year or close to two and later has a period without a valid PR card (before back in compliance to apply and get a new one) should be fine in most respects.

But the PR who is out of compliance and without a PR card and has not already established themselves with health care etc may face a lot more complications and possibly not be able to get health coverage until they can get a new card.

Caveat, though, a lot of variables and not claiming to be an expert. And then there may be some surprises like a PR without a current card and out of compliance who moves from one province to another.

So being out of compliance and not being able to renew card: you can live in Canada and work - but it's not without it's limitations, costs and risks, in addition to being more limited in terms of travel, etc. Those may be pretty minor in some cases, but health care is the big one for most. The rest is a lot of details that are probably too individual to generalize.

 

[armoured]

Hi Armoured
Query on the

point you just stated above. If someone's PR card has expired, can they still work legally? Are they eligible for benefits which are given to PRs. Like child care, healthcare etc?

I see now your situation is I think similar to above - either still in compliance or might be entering slightly out of compliance - in which case you should have sufficient time to get eg health coverage etc, before card expires.

Do check by province of residence but I don't think any cancel health coverage for a card being expired.

 

[canuck78]

I see now your situation is I think similar to above - either still in compliance or might be entering slightly out of compliance - in which case you should have sufficient time to get eg health coverage etc, before card expires.

Do check by province of residence but I don't think any cancel health coverage for a card being expired.

There is a residency requirement to qualify for healthcare so cards can be put on hold if the province thinks you are no longer living in Canada and have not met the residency requirement to qualify to receive healthcare. If you have an expired card you can be asked for proof of your status in Canada like a valid PR card. It varies by province.

 

[armoured]

There is a residency requirement to qualify for healthcare so cards can be put on hold if the province thinks you are no longer living in Canada and have not met the residency requirement to qualify to receive healthcare. If you have an expired card you can be asked for proof of your status in Canada like a valid PR card. It varies by province.

Yes, thank you - it varies a lot. I was mostly referring to cases (at least in my first case scenario) where PR is physically and clearly residing in Canada (not leaving much if at all) and already had/has a card when enrolling for health care. And in that case if the PR is already enrolled and then has an expired PR card for some period before getting a new one, they'll probably be okay.

But it's considerably more specific to each province and lots of potential pitfalls. But different from the case of a PR who does not have a valid card and needs to sign up, where it's more likely to be an issue.