Land border crossing

[benstirlag]

Hi,

I have PR status and still have a valid PR card but I don't meet the PR obligations anymore. I have only spent 3 months in Canada since I got my PR 3,5 years ago.
I checked and I am 94 days short already.
I don't have any humanitarian reasons, I just was undecided and the covid19 made me even more hesitant (I still have a job where I live).
But I regret it now, and if I had to re-apply for the express entry I would only get 467 points and in 6 months even below that.

I often see here in the forum suggestions about entering Canada through the land border, and if it succeeds of course stay in the country for at least 2 years and apply for PR renewal.

I wanted to know if suggestions for the "land border" route are because that controls there are more "relaxed" or because it is the only way with an expired PR card to travel to Canada (for immigrants not meeting their PR obligations) ?

I know that currently with the covid situation traveling through the US is tricky.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi,

I have PR status and still have a valid PR card but I don't meet the PR obligations anymore. I have only spent 3 months in Canada since I got my PR 3,5 years ago.
I checked and I am 94 days short already.
I don't have any humanitarian reasons, I just was undecided and the covid19 made me even more hesitant (I still have a job where I live).
But I regret it now, and if I had to re-apply for the express entry I would only get 467 points and in 6 months even below that.

I often see here in the forum suggestions about entering Canada through the land border, and if it succeeds of course stay in the country for at least 2 years and apply for PR renewal.

I wanted to know if suggestions for the "land border" route are because that controls there are more "relaxed" or because it is the only way with an expired PR card to travel to Canada (for immigrants not meeting their PR obligations) ?

I know that currently with the covid situation traveling through the US is tricky.

As long as your PR card is valid you can board a flight to Canada. No need to travel via the U.S. to reach a PoE at a land-crossing.

There is no where near enough reliable reporting to infer that a land crossing PoE is either more relaxed or more strict than officials are toward those arriving in Canada by air.

Yes, most of the discussion about traveling to Canada via the U.S. is for the benefit of PRs who do not have a valid PR card and who do not want to apply for a PR Travel Document. Reasons for not wanting to apply for a PR Travel Document vary.

For many, yes, they are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation and are hoping that PoE officials are less strict than Visa Offices are in deciding whether to issue a PR TD; historically the reports and IAD decisions tended to support that view. Moreover, particularly for PRs who have not complied with the RO but not egregiously so, the fact they are there, at the border to enter Canada, may help tip the scales toward allowing them a chance to come and stay, and keep their status. And, additionally, there is the advantage of actually being in Canada pending an appeal if they are reported and they appeal.

But there are many other PRs who for whatever reason did not obtain a new PR card, and this is especially true this past year given the longer processing times for PR card applications, and they need (or want) to travel abroad. They are in compliance with the RO. They simply do not have enough time to get a new PR card before they travel. And, for them returning via the U.S. can be more reliable, and less hassle, than applying for a PR TD.

Additional Unsolicited Observation:

Difficulty making the move to Canada during this pandemic is an obvious H&C factor, all by itself. It makes sense that an individual would hang on to employment abroad longer during these uncertain times. I am not suggesting a PR dress-up his or her reasons for not coming to Canada sooner, but just a straight up honest explanation of things, including the difficulty making the transition, can have enough H&C weight to tip the scales favourably . . . but the less in breach the PR is, the better.

Thus, even though it is far from certain, for PRs still within the first five years since landing, still in possession of a valid PR card, given the impact that the Covid-19 pandemic has had, it seems fairly likely that, for awhile anyway, border officials will be more lenient in screening returning PRs in regards to compliance with the RO. No guarantees. And, indeed, again it warrants emphasizing that the sooner the PR actually gets here, the better the PR's chances -- that is, the less in breach the PR is when the PR arrives, the better the chances are that border officials will allow the PR to enter without issuing an inadmissibility report.

Note, too, even if issued a Report, the PR will be allowed to enter, and can then appeal. And here too, the sooner the PR gets here and thus the less in breach the PR is, the better the PR's odds that the IAD will allow the PR to keep status.

In contrast, of course, the longer you wait to make the move, the more the risk you will be Reported and lose your PR status.

And, of course, the overriding downside is that Canada is currently suffering a big surge of cases and this is indeed a particularly difficult time to come here to try and get established. But if keeping PR status and a future life in Canada is a priority for you, the sooner you make the trip the better your chances.

 

[armoured]

If you still have a valid pr card you can fly. While uncertain there is a decent chance that covid will still be considered a reason to have delayed return and you will be let in. 94 days is not all that much.

As dpenabill wrote, the sooner you return the better.

 

[benstirlag]

As long as your PR card is valid you can board a flight to Canada. No need to travel via the U.S. to reach a PoE at a land-crossing.

There is no where near enough reliable reporting to infer that a land crossing PoE is either more relaxed or more strict than officials are toward those arriving in Canada by air.

Yes, most of the discussion about traveling to Canada via the U.S. is for the benefit of PRs who do not have a valid PR card and who do not want to apply for a PR Travel Document. Reasons for not wanting to apply for a PR Travel Document vary.

For many, yes, they are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation and are hoping that PoE officials are less strict than Visa Offices are in deciding whether to issue a PR TD; historically the reports and IAD decisions tended to support that view. Moreover, particularly for PRs who have not complied with the RO but not egregiously so, the fact they are there, at the border to enter Canada, may help tip the scales toward allowing them a chance to come and stay, and keep their status. And, additionally, there is the advantage of actually being in Canada pending an appeal if they are reported and they appeal.

But there are many other PRs who for whatever reason did not obtain a new PR card, and this is especially true this past year given the longer processing times for PR card applications, and they need (or want) to travel abroad. They are in compliance with the RO. They simply do not have enough time to get a new PR card before they travel. And, for them returning via the U.S. can be more reliable, and less hassle, than applying for a PR TD.

Additional Unsolicited Observation:

Difficulty making the move to Canada during this pandemic is an obvious H&C factor, all by itself. It makes sense that an individual would hang on to employment abroad longer during these uncertain times. I am not suggesting a PR dress-up his or her reasons for not coming to Canada sooner, but just a straight up honest explanation of things, including the difficulty making the transition, can have enough H&C weight to tip the scales favourably . . . but the less in breach the PR is, the better.

Thus, even though it is far from certain, for PRs still within the first five years since landing, still in possession of a valid PR card, given the impact that the Covid-19 pandemic has had, it seems fairly likely that, for awhile anyway, border officials will be more lenient in screening returning PRs in regards to compliance with the RO. No guarantees. And, indeed, again it warrants emphasizing that the sooner the PR actually gets here, the better the PR's chances -- that is, the less in breach the PR is when the PR arrives, the better the chances are that border officials will allow the PR to enter without issuing an inadmissibility report.

Note, too, even if issued a Report, the PR will be allowed to enter, and can then appeal. And here too, the sooner the PR gets here and thus the less in breach the PR is, the better the PR's odds that the IAD will allow the PR to keep status.

In contrast, of course, the longer you wait to make the move, the more the risk you will be Reported and lose your PR status.

And, of course, the overriding downside is that Canada is currently suffering a big surge of cases and this is indeed a particularly difficult time to come here to try and get established. But if keeping PR status and a future life in Canada is a priority for you, the sooner you make the trip the better your chances.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer, you gave me exactly the information that I needed. I understand better now the "land border option".
Well it is not for me then.
I'll think I'll try to get back to Canada very shortly and give it a try. It is probably considering my age (almost mid 40s) my last chance. For the "express entry" I only get 467 points (considering I get at least the same points for the language tests as last time) and in 6 months it will be even lower than that. I don't think I'll appeal if reported because I do not have any serious H&C reason that would explain why I was abroad so long.

 

[armoured]

... I do not have any serious H&C reason that would explain why I was abroad so long.

Covid-related issues, uncertainty, travel complications during this period - they are serious H&C reasons. I'm not saying they make all of the last several years go away, but they are reasons.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer, you gave me exactly the information that I needed. I understand better now the "land border option".
Well it is not for me then.
I'll think I'll try to get back to Canada very shortly and give it a try. It is probably considering my age (almost mid 40s) my last chance. For the "express entry" I only get 467 points (considering I get at least the same points for the language tests as last time) and in 6 months it will be even lower than that. I don't think I'll appeal if reported because I do not have any serious H&C reason that would explain why I was abroad so long.

467 seems very high if you are mid 40s. If you do come to Canada would be prepared financially for 6-12 months of unemployment because there is not much hiring due to covid except in some very specific industries. You can’t sponsor anyone until you are compliant with your RO in case. Unsure if this applies to you but something to be aware of. Moving in your mid 40s can be tough because careers are more established. Really depends on whether your previous work history will be recognized and a transition will be easy. Would make sure you do your research and talk to people in your industry in Canada especially if you are leaving a job in your home country or other country.

 

[dpenabill]

I don't think I'll appeal if reported because I do not have any serious H&C reason that would explain why I was abroad so long.

Once again I concur with the observation by @armoured

Which is not to encourage OR discourage making an appeal if Reported for a breach of the Residency Obligation upon arrival at a PoE. That is very much an individual decision, regarding which a lot of very personal factors, including personal goals and priorities, as well as personal financial and family factors, should be considered.

Which is also true in regards to making the decision about whether to come to Canada itself. Especially given the uncertainties looming in the current situation, not the least of which is the risk of being deemed inadmissible upon arrival, but also given the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.


Additional Observations Regarding the "H&C" Case:

In terms of presenting the "H&C" case, for individuals like you this is mostly about telling, explaining, YOUR TRUE STORY. In simple, honest terms. Assuming you still want to settle and live in Canada permanently, you just tell it like it is and leave it up to the decision makers whether they will conclude you, in effect, *DESERVE* a chance to still settle and live in Canada.

There is a tendency in forum discussions to judge the weight of this or that factor, including, for example, a tendency to outright dismiss certain factors, like a PR delaying coming to Canada because of a job abroad. And it is true, generally, that staying abroad for personal economic reasons will not count much, if at all, in the calculating of H&C reasons. BUT for the PR who is still within the first five years since landing, and especially in the current pandemic environment, just honestly explaining why and how difficult it was to actually make the move, including personal economic factors, assuming the individual can also honestly say he or she is committed to settling in Canada permanently, may amount to sufficient H&C reasons for an official to allow the individual to keep PR status . . . recognizing that the biggest factor likely influencing how it actually goes is how big the breach is (which is why the sooner you come, the better your odds).

And that is the same case that can be made in an appeal . . . except, in the appeal, assuming the PR stayed in Canada pending the appeal (no point in appealing if the PR leaves Canada pending the appeal), the PR has an additional positive H&C factor based on the amount of time and extent to which the PR has actually progressed in establishing a life in Canada, and the weight of the intent or plan to settle and live in Canada is greater since the PR has actually acted consistent with that, again by staying pending the appeal.

I would note that if Reported, appealing would allow you an opportunity to see how it goes in terms of settling and living in Canada. You can withdraw the appeal at any time if you realize that current circumstances do not sufficiently support making a go of staying in Canada.

Again, this is NOT intended to encourage or discourage you from making the move. And if you make the move, but are Reported upon arrival, this is NOT intended to encourage or discourage you from you from making an appeal and staying pending the appeal. Frankly, just deciding to take your chances and come is a big, BIG decision with a lot of personal factors to consider.

 

[armoured]

Which is not to encourage OR discourage making an appeal if Reported for a breach of the Residency Obligation upon arrival at a PoE. That is very much an individual decision, regarding which a lot of very personal factors, including personal goals and priorities, as well as personal financial and family factors, should be considered.

Which is also true in regards to making the decision about whether to come to Canada itself. Especially given the uncertainties looming in the current situation, not the least of which is the risk of being deemed inadmissible upon arrival, but also given the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

I would just underline that these are all good points - and that I did not eveb attempt to address personal factors or decisions - i.e. I have no idea whether it makes sense for an individual. It's not an easy thing to move countries and harder now.

My responses above were limited only/primarily to the somewhat narrow point that covid-related delays are real H&C factors that WILL (indeed must) be taken into consideration both at port of entry and (if it comes to that) on appeal. And I do not think that 'covid-related' will necessarily be limited to delays directly caused by covid (such as travel bans), but likely to include things like uncertainty or not wishing to risk international travel - particularly during a period when the canadian govt is itself trying to discourage such travel. (Granted, the relative WEIGHT attached to directly-caused delays vs less direct would likely be different).

That's still not a guarantee of course. It is not a blanket exemption, just one factor (albeit a pretty obvious and clear one). It will carry less weight (possibly much less weight) for those who were already significnatly out of compliance with the residency obligation before covid 'began.'

I'd only add a minor point to the OP regarding the appeal process (in case it's not clear) - which is that a) if reported and appeal process started, a PR still has the right to live and work in Canada during that period and until the appeal process completed; and b) remaining in Canada during the appeal will usually (as @dpenabill comments above) usually be considered positively at appeal (relative weight unknown).

(And of course there is the possibility that a PR - even out of compliance - will be 'waved through' with no formal process started at all, i.e. H&C grounds accepted without any formal process)

Unfortunately there are relatively few reports here recently by PRs returning out-of-compliance since the beginning of covid, and too early I think to hear what happens in formal appeal process (i.e. does the appeal process look favourably upon covid as a 'real' H&C reason). So we can't really draw proper inferences from the few reports there are. This MIGHT mean that fewer are being formally reported (i.e. more lenience at ports of entry). Or it might mean that there are just fewer PRs travelling right now and hence far fewer cases where it comes up. (Or of course some mix of the two and possibly other explanations)

Personally I suspect the former, i.e. some real consideration given to covid-related reasons, is likely. But it's only a guess.