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PR card In-person pick-up, Montreal office

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
Hi,

Has anyone been told that they were selected for an in-person pick-up and that they will have to wait for the officer handling their case to mail them about when and where to pick-up the PR card?

I have applied for my second renewal on June 3rd, IRCC received my application on June 11th, got my AOR on September 17th, and ever since I've been waiting to be contacted to go pick-up my card. I called IRCC multiple times, and every time I get the same answer "Due to covid the office was close, and you just have to be patient". TBH I am beyond frustrated at this point. I need to travel to see my parents, and because of this issue, I can't go anywhere.

Any help on what I should do would be greatly appreciated.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
Hi,

Has anyone been told that they were selected for an in-person pick-up and that they will have to wait for the officer handling their case to mail them about when and where to pick-up the PR card?

I have applied for my second renewal on June 3rd, IRCC received my application on June 11th, got my AOR on September 17th, and ever since I've been waiting to be contacted to go pick-up my card. I called IRCC multiple times, and every time I get the same answer "Due to covid the office was close, and you just have to be patient". TBH I am beyond frustrated at this point. I need to travel to see my parents, and because of this issue, I can't go anywhere.

Any help on what I should do would be greatly appreciated.
Did you do a lot of travelling during the past 5 years or were you close to the 730 day requirement?
 

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
Did you do a lot of travelling during the past 5 years or were you close to the 730 day requirement?
I did live abroad for work for two years and a half (and traveled a lot for work during this period). The thing is that I didn't get sent to secondary review, and my application has been approved/card been sent to Montreal office according to the many agents I've spoken to. So I don't understand why it is taking as long. I understand there are only two offices in the whole country dealing with PR related matters, but tbh Covid can't be the excuse for every inefficacy out there.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
I did live abroad for work for two years and a half (and traveled a lot for work during this period). The thing is that I didn't get sent to secondary review, and my application has been approved/card been sent to Montreal office according to the many agents I've spoken to. So I don't understand why it is taking as long. I understand there are only two offices in the whole country dealing with PR related matters, but tbh Covid can't be the excuse for every inefficacy out there.
Assume they want to review your passport to make sure there are no inconsistencies.
 

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
Nothing preventing you from travelling. You would need to apply for a PRTD to return.
We don't have a Visa Center in my home country, so that's means I have to do it in a neighboring country if I decide to leave. Also, I would assume that due to covid the processing timeline for PTRD has increased, so I can't risk being away for too long.
 

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
Assume they want to review your passport to make sure there are no inconsistencies.
This has nothing to with me traveling a lot since the application has been approved. If they had suspected any inconsistencies they would have sent my application to secondary review and I would have gotten a notice about that.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
This has nothing to with me traveling a lot since the application has been approved. If they had suspected any inconsistencies they would have sent my application to secondary review and I would have gotten a notice about that.
It is very common for people to have their passport reviewed as one last check when they pick up their PR card as well as checks to make sure they are still in compliance with their RO. This is very standard although not as much during covid.
 

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
It is very common for people to have their passport reviewed as one last check when they pick up their PR card as well as checks to make sure they are still in compliance with their RO. This is very standard although not as much during covid.
Hi,
In your opinion, what would be the best thing to do to expedite this process. I need to travel urgently to see my parents, and this whole dilemma is making everything difficult. Would buying a ticket and attaching it with the webform make the process faster?

Thank you in advance!
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
Hi,
In your opinion, what would be the best thing to do to expedite this process. I need to travel urgently to see my parents, and this whole dilemma is making everything difficult. Would buying a ticket and attaching it with the webform make the process faster?

Thank you in advance!
You can certainly try but not sure if it will have an impact. You may be told to apply for a PRTD if travel abroad is absolutely necessary for emergency purposes. Are you compliant with your RO today or if you leave the country for a few months? You are now in rolling totals so at any point you must have been in Canada for 730 days during the past 5 years.
 

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
You can certainly try but not sure if it will have an impact. You may be told to apply for a PRTD if travel abroad is absolutely necessary for emergency purposes. Are you compliant with your RO today or if you leave the country for a few months? You are now in rolling totals so at any point you must have been in Canada for 730 days during the past 5 years.
At any point from the beginning of 2021, I will be at around 735 days in the last two years. So I guess an option of waiting abroad for a PRTD will be a bit difficult.

Will this mean even if I get the PR card in the next few months, I won't be able to travel? I am a bit confused.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
At any point from the beginning of 2021, I will be at around 735 days in the last two years. So I guess an option of waiting abroad for a PRTD will be a bit difficult.

Will this mean even if I get the PR card in the next few months, I won't be able to travel? I am a bit confused.
If you don't meet your RO you are always at risk of being reported. If you don't meet the 730 days out of 5 years it would be risky to leave Canada.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Overall, apart from the logistics related to getting the new PR card or going abroad without one and obtaining a PR Travel Document, the overriding concern is perfectly summed up here:

If you don't meet your RO you are always at risk of being reported. If you don't meet the 730 days out of 5 years it would be risky to leave Canada.
That is it, in the proverbial nutshell.

But to be clear, even if a new PR card is obtained, given the history here it will still be RISKY to be outside Canada without being in compliance with the RO . . . that is, even with an almost new PR card in hand, if you go abroad and then, when you are returning to Canada, you have not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, as of the day you arrive at the PoE, you will be at RISK for being reported and losing PR status.

Even continuing to be cutting-it-close could be risky, if you go abroad, unless it is relatively easy to clearly establish RO compliance.


The Longer Explanation:

The thing is that I didn't get sent to secondary review, and my application has been approved/card been sent to Montreal office according to the many agents I've spoken to. So I don't understand why it is taking as long.
This has nothing to with me traveling a lot since the application has been approved. If they had suspected any inconsistencies they would have sent my application to secondary review and I would have gotten a notice about that.
Not really how it works.

Most newly issued PR cards are mailed to the PR. However, a significant percentage are not mailed directly to the PR, but instead sent to the local office for the PR to pick-up in person. The latter can happen for various reasons, but one of the more common reasons is to verify the PR is (1) IN Canada and (2) to conduct an interview with the PR to verify certain information. This can include an examination of the PR's passport and verification of other information, including information in regards to RO compliance.

The application being "approved," as you refer to, means a PR card is issued. But, that does not necessarily conclude IRCC's screening. Just because the application has been approved and a new card "issued," for the individual PR what ultimately matters is the PR card getting DELIVERED. As noted, most newly issued PR cards are mailed directly to the PR. The PR card is thus "delivered." Otherwise, IRCC has not made a final decision to DELIVER the PR card, and again sometimes this is why the card is sent to the local office for in-person pick-up, so that there is a final check, a final screening, before IRCC makes the decision the PR qualifies for a new PR card and actually DELIVERS the PR card to the PR.

NOTE Re Referral to Secondary Review and RO Compliance Cases: Actually, if compliance with the Residency Obligation is at issue, to be formally examined, the PR card application will not, not ordinarily, be referred to Secondary Review; in this situation the typical procedure is one of the following:
-- PR is sent a request to provide RQ-related information and documents; this request coming directly from the CPC, or​
-- the application is referred to the local office to investigate RO compliance; typically but not always the local office will send the PR the request for RQ-related information and documents​

There tends to be some confusion about this because close-call-RO-compliance appears to be a factor in what has triggered many of the referrals to Secondary Review. What triggers the referral to SR is NOT the same as what the referral is about. Again, if IRCC apprehends the PR is NOT in compliance with the RO, and not eligible to be issued a new card for this reason, that does not go to SR but rather triggers the RQ-related requests described above.

The latter may have little or nothing to do with your situation. I do not know what your situation is. I suspect your history has triggered a counter-interview local pick-up to at least verify you are IN Canada, and perhaps to examine you some in person before making the decision you qualify for a PR card and to deliver it. I DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR-SURE. Far from it.


Any Way To Expedite Scheduling For the In-Person Card Pick-Up?

I doubt it.

Here too, however, I do not know, not anywhere near for-sure. I can offer this: You are already past the stage where "urgent processing" would make a difference. Moreover, even though I am not sure what the situation is, it appears that IRCC has reason to flag you for potential Residency Obligation compliance concerns, and (a bit of a guess) has indeed flagged your file (and this would be part of why the need for an in-person pick-up). If they have, that would tend to preclude expedited processing.

Leading back to RO compliance concerns generally . . .


THE CAVEAT . . . SOME CONCERNS:

Looming large over all this, though, is whether or not, and if so to what extent, there is a RO compliance concern. You say, for example:
"At any point from the beginning of 2021, I will be at around 735 days in the last two years."​

Frankly (or as you frame it, TBH), I do not know what this means. RO compliance is based on the last FIVE years, not two. Moreover, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have spent 735 days IN Canada "in the last two years," since even if every day in the last two years was in Canada that would be less than 735 . . . sure, a mere four days less, given this year being a leap year, but this is such blatantly obvious simple arithmetic it confuses me . . . especially in context with what followed:
"I guess an option of waiting abroad for a PRTD will be a bit difficult."​

I am not asking you to unravel or explain this. What matters, foremost, is being in compliance with the RO, in fact, and secondly the extent to which that is or can be readily established versus the chance that Canadian officials might doubt you are in fact in compliance with the RO.

Which points back to the recent post by @canuck78 which I quoted above.

It appears that at best you have been OUTSIDE Canada more than you have been IN Canada during the last five years. And, of course, if you go abroad that will not change. If you go abroad, the number of IN Canada days credit you have, toward meeting the RO (that is, counting days IN Canada within the preceding five years) will either remain the same or, if you currently have credit for days around five years ago, begin to DECREASE as days in Canada fall outside the relevant last five years.

What tends to elevate the RISKS here is that it appears (you say this is an application for your "2nd renewal") you have been a PR for ten years or so. If, at this juncture, TEN years into it, you are still spending LESS than HALF your time in Canada, yeah, there is a high risk that IRCC is flagging you for further scrutiny as to RO compliance. For obvious reasons. If you want to talk about getting "frustrated," IF a bureaucracy could be frustrated, no wild stretch of imagination necessary to recognize why bureaucratic officials might apprehend you are not doing what the grant of PR was intended for, as in not settling in Canada permanently.

You might actually now be settled in Canada permanently . . . or your reference to 735 days in Canada is based on having spent the last two years entirely IN Canada, or at least you have spent enough days in Canada in the last two to three years there is no doubt you are in compliance with the RO and will continue to be for at least a couple years (even if you go and stay outside Canada) . . . in which event there may be NO reason for concerns at all. I do not know.

But if you have been a PR for ten years, AND you have only been IN Canada a little over two years total in the last five years, however frustrated it may make you, it should be no surprise that the government is not making it easy. This could have and should have been easily predicted. In general, cutting-it-close tends to risk non-routine problems and delays, but for someone who has been a PR for around ten years, cutting-it-close is more or less emphatically cutting-it-close and risking . . . concerns, concerns with delays.


Another Caveat: Not sure this applies at all, but I wonder if there is cause to doubt your PR card application is "approved," and a new PR card issued. If your eCas shows "decision made," that would tend to verify the application was approved, and the help centre information about it being referred to the local office for pick-up. If eCas does not show "decision made," that would suggest the referral to the local office is for further investigation, and the help centre information is off a bit, which it warrants cautioning is not unusual.
 
Last edited:

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
Overall, apart from the logistics related to getting the new PR card or going abroad without one and obtaining a PR Travel Document, the overriding concern is perfectly summed up here:



That is it, in the proverbial nutshell.

But to be clear, even if a new PR card is obtained, given the history here it will still be RISKY to be outside Canada without being in compliance with the RO . . . that is, even with an almost new PR card in hand, if you go abroad and then, when you are returning to Canada, you have not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, as of the day you arrive at the PoE, you will be at RISK for being reported and losing PR status.

Even continuing to be cutting-it-close could be risky, if you go abroad, unless it is relatively easy to clearly establish RO compliance.


The Longer Explanation:





Not really how it works.


Most newly issued PR cards are mailed to the PR. However, a significant percentage are not mailed directly to the PR, but instead sent to the local office for the PR to pick-up in person. The latter can happen for various reasons, but one of the more common reasons is to verify the PR is (1) IN Canada and (2) to conduct an interview with the PR to verify certain information. This can include an examination of the PR's passport and verification of other information, including information in regards to RO compliance.

The application being "approved," as you refer to, means a PR card is issued. But, that does not necessarily conclude IRCC's screening. Just because the application has been approved and a new card "issued," for the individual PR what ultimately matters is the PR card getting DELIVERED. As noted, most newly issued PR cards are mailed directly to the PR. The PR card is thus "delivered." Otherwise, IRCC has not made a final decision to DELIVER the PR card, and again sometimes this is why the card is sent to the local office for in-person pick-up, so that there is a final check, a final screening, before IRCC makes the decision the PR qualifies for a new PR card and actually DELIVERS the PR card to the PR.

NOTE Re Referral to Secondary Review and RO Compliance Cases: Actually, if compliance with the Residency Obligation is at issue, to be formally examined, the PR card application will not, not ordinarily, be referred to Secondary Review; in this situation the typical procedure is one of the following:
-- PR is sent a request to provide RQ-related information and documents; this request coming directly from the CPC, or​
-- the application is referred to the local office to investigate RO compliance; typically but not always the local office will send the PR the request for RQ-related information and documents​

There tends to be some confusion about this because close-call-RO-compliance appears to be a factor in what has triggered many of the referrals to Secondary Review. What triggers the referral to SR is NOT the same as what the referral is about. Again, if IRCC apprehends the PR is NOT in compliance with the RO, and not eligible to be issued a new card for this reason, that does not go to SR but rather triggers the RQ-related requests described above.

The latter may have little or nothing to do with your situation. I do not know what your situation is. I suspect your history has triggered a counter-interview local pick-up to at least verify you are IN Canada, and perhaps to examine you some in person before making the decision you qualify for a PR card and to deliver it. I DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR-SURE. Far from it.


Any Way To Expedite Scheduling For the In-Person Card Pick-Up?

I doubt it.

Here too, however, I do not know, not anywhere near for-sure. I can offer this: You are already past the stage where "urgent processing" would make a difference. Moreover, even though I am not sure what the situation is, it appears that IRCC has reason to flag you for potential Residency Obligation compliance concerns, and (a bit of a guess) has indeed flagged your file (and this would be part of why the need for an in-person pick-up). If they have, that would tend to preclude expedited processing.

Leading back to RO compliance concerns generally . . .


THE CAVEAT . . . SOME CONCERNS:

Looming large over all this, though, is whether or not, and if so to what extent, there is a RO compliance concern. You say, for example:
"At any point from the beginning of 2021, I will be at around 735 days in the last two years."​

Frankly (or as you frame it, TBH), I do not know what this means. RO compliance is based on the last FIVE years, not two. Moreover, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have spent 735 days IN Canada "in the last two years," since even if every day in the last two years was in Canada that would be less than 735 . . . sure, a mere four days less, given this year being a leap year, but this is such blatantly obvious simple arithmetic it confuses me . . . especially in context with what followed:
"I guess an option of waiting abroad for a PRTD will be a bit difficult."​

I am not asking you to unravel or explain this. What matters, foremost, is being in compliance with the RO, in fact, and secondly the extent to which that is or can be readily established versus the chance that Canadian officials might doubt you are in fact in compliance with the RO.

Which points back to the recent post by @canuck78 which I quoted above.

It appears that at best you have been OUTSIDE Canada more than you have been IN Canada during the last five years. And, of course, if you go abroad that will not change. If you go abroad, the number of IN Canada days credit you have, toward meeting the RO (that is, counting days IN Canada within the preceding five years) will either remain the same or, if you currently have credit for days around five years ago, begin to DECREASE as days in Canada fall outside the relevant last five years.

What tends to elevate the RISKS here is that it appears (you say this is an application for your "2nd renewal") you have been a PR for ten years or so. If, at this juncture, TEN years into it, you are still spending LESS than HALF your time in Canada, yeah, there is a high risk that IRCC is flagging you for further scrutiny as to RO compliance. For obvious reasons. If you want to talk about getting "frustrated," IF a bureaucracy could be frustrated, no wild stretch of imagination necessary to recognize why bureaucratic officials might apprehend you are not doing what the grant of PR was intended for, as in not settling in Canada permanently.

You might actually now be settled in Canada permanently . . . or your reference to 735 days in Canada is based on having spent the last two years entirely IN Canada, or at least you have spent enough days in Canada in the last two to three years there is no doubt you are in compliance with the RO and will continue to be for at least a couple years (even if you go and stay outside Canada) . . . in which event there may be NO reason for concerns at all. I do not know.

But if you have been a PR for ten years, AND you have only been IN Canada a little over two years total in the last five years, however frustrated it may make you, it should be no surprise that the government is not making it easy. This could have and should have been easily predicted. In general, cutting-it-close tends to risk non-routine problems and delays, but for someone who has been a PR for around ten years, cutting-it-close is more or less emphatically cutting-it-close and risking . . . concerns, concerns with delays.


Another Caveat: Not sure this applies at all, but I wonder if there is cause to doubt your PR card application is "approved," and a new PR card issued. If your eCas shows "decision made," that would tend to verify the application was approved, and the help centre information about it being referred to the local office for pick-up. If eCas does not show "decision made," that would suggest the referral to the local office is for further investigation, and the help centre information is off a bit, which it warrants cautioning is not unusual.

Hi dpenabill,

Thank you for this response, I truly appreciate the time you spent explaining everything.

I was expecting that my application would take time, but not this long frankly. As well as I've expected being chosen to pick-it up at the office just to verify that I am here in Canada.

I'll start with the response to your last point. I actually do know for a fact that my application has been approved as it shows "Decision made" since September 22nd, and I got it in writing " as an answer to one of the few webforms I've sent IRCC regarding why my application lengthy waiting period. I am quite sure that I met the residency obligation the day I've applied to renew the card. Yet my concern in my last post was that as the days go, my in-Canada days will become very short to the 730 days (counting the period 2016-2021) Making it hard for me to go see my parents until the beginning of 2022. Not sure if this explains why I said what I've said in my previous post.
 

mah.abde

Full Member
Sep 14, 2020
23
7
An Update:

I got an email on Wednesday from the officer who is in charge of my file, requesting me to send a new set of photographs so they can send me my PR Card by mail. In my head, I think they are doing this to ensure that I am here because I can't go to the office due to covid. What frustrating is that they will be closed until Jan. 11th due to the lockdown in Quebec. I wonder how long does it usually take to send the PR card after such a request?