I wish you the best. You weren’t refused on a “technicality” and if you don’t want to wait for the officers notes & full reasons for refusal that is your choice. Your first application is still on file. You are lucky your wife didn’t get a 5 year ban for not mentioning the refusals. Your study permit was refused too, which has no bearing & is scrutinized separately from your wife’s refusal.
Spouse's OWP refused while my Study Permit is still being reviewed
- Thread starter dealmonkey
- Start date
Many thanks, @Naturgrl! How do you know that it's not a "technicality"? And how would you assess chances of "restoring officer's trust" and overall chances of re-applying now while explaining reasons for US visa refusals (they are indeed technical -- didn't realize fully that background question 2b asked also "or any other country...)?
And how you would assess a Plan B (or C) -- arriving to Canada alone and my wife joins me later like in some months after (given this US visa refusal issue)?
As I said before many spousal work permits are refused. You are saying technicality but your permit was refused too. You weren’t refused only because of not mentioning the refusals. You were refused:
• I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay, as stipulated in subsection 216(1) of the IRPR, based on the purpose of your visit
This is a common statement & you need your notes to see the full reasons. Guessing you have a masters, why come to Canada for a one year program. Again I am guessing.
Your spouse has two reasons,
• I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay, as stipulated in subsection 200(1) of the IRPR, based on the purpose of your visit.
• I am not satisfied that you have truthfully answered all questions asked of you
The first needs notes to know why. The second is the US refusals.
You can apply again with her applying for work permit or TRV. Or apply for the study permit only.
Thanks. Is it the correct hypothesis -- spousal open work permits refused more often than just TRVs?
No. The issue is that spouse’s are seen as the “tie” to return home after studies. Also you both need to show strong ties that you will return home so property, family, job etc.
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You mean that if we travel both (not me first and then my wife joins me later) -- it's better?
Also, what is the difference in definitions -- GMCS notes vs ATIP? My understanding is that ATIP is a law/policy, which allows requesting GMCS notes. So basically they are the same. Is that right?
Access to Information is the Act. You ask for the notes (GCMS) under the Act. Right now, it is better if you both travel together. Because of Covid, if she has to come on her own (later) then she needs not only the visa but written authorization to travel by immigration. It may be denied because her travel isn’t essential. if approved, your program is only a year so it may take months for her to come.
If applying without the notes & you are both applying, you need to pay first year tuition, show minimum $14k in funds (a lot more if she is applying for a TRV since she can not work), show strong ties to return home (property, assets, jobs etc), justify MBA with master in finance (Career, cost, job etc). Again guessing your reasons for refusal.
Great, thanks.
1. What do you mean by "If approved, your program is only a year so it may take months for her to come"? Meaning if I travel alone first and then later she applies, it might take months before she arrives and joins me? But any risks she might be refused and not join me at all or "family reunification", "help me get established", etc. might work?
2. Is there any difference between CAIPS and GCMS notes? I guess that CAIPS is the former name, so GCMS is the same, but updated name.
1. Yes, you are a temporary not permanent resident. Priority has been reuniting family’s of citizens and PRs. If you wait to apply for her visa when you come to Canada, it will take months. And it may be refused or approved. You don’t know.
2. You are getting caught up in acronyms. The CAIPS computer system has been superseded by a new applicant tracking system called GCMS (Global Case Management System).
Don‘t know your country’s processing times but you need to be here by mid February since you have to quarantine for 14 days.
2. You're right...
It's 15 weeks, month ago it was 7 weeks, but I received refusal is just two weeks (indeed, refusals are received faster). But if we reapply, we already have biometrics and passed upfront medical exam. So I hope it might be less than these 15 weeks.
Overall, I'm considering the following scenarios:
A. Apply now together (e.g. wife as TRV), not waiting for the notes, but consult with a certified consultant to review app and address most likely issues (i.e. US visa refusals, her and my reasoning in coming to Canada). Benefits: most likely be on time for studies, travel together. Risks: be rejected twice, make situation worse and apply for the 3rd time (less chances)
B. Wait for the notes, work with a consultant to review them and tailor a new application, addressing actual issues (hope the notes will contain them, but sometimes there's very generic answer, right?). Apply at the end of December. Benefits: more chances for positive response. Risks: be late for classes start (this means it's the end). But here in case of delayed processing, there is an option to ask local Canadian MP to follow up/petition to speed up.
C. Apply alone now either with or without a consultant (it shouldn't be that hard to re-address "leaving Canada at the end of stay"). Meanwhile, wait for the notes and see what's in there. Arrive to Canada alone. My wife applies with addressed issues based on the notes and hopefully arrives later in 2-3-6 months. Otherwise, in case we see some red flags in her notes (they will arrive in December, while I'm still in my home country) that might not be corrected (e.g. ban, etc. - but guess there is no one since I wasn't stated in the refusal letter?), I cancel even my trip at all. Benefits: be on time for the studies, but alone. Risks: my wife doesn't allowed to join me at all (a no-go scenario, as we plan 100% be together either at the start or in XX months once I arrived there).
What do you think of them?
It is your choice. Another option is to defer your studies and then you’d don’t rush an application. A Canadian MP can’t expedite the process & you don’t live in Canada to ask your local representative. Also you really don’t want another refusal especially for your wife. Two Canadian and three US refusals are not a good travel record especially since these two countries, UK, Australia and NZ (called the Five Eyes) share immigration information.
Agree that the big issues is your first masters. There is just too much overlap to justify such a huge cost. You will need to convince the visa officer that an MBA from a Canadian school will lead to career advancement in your home country and that your masters in finance and MBA have very little overlap. Ivey is a good school but not internationally known and is expensive. There are lots of MBA programs that are very good and diverse throughout Europe. To get denied while applying to attend a respected program I think you have some big obstacles. A TRV is likely to be refused for your spouse because it is clear she doesn't want to visit you and return home. An OWP is the correct visa.
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Many thanks. Actually I am very surprised how US and Canadian immigration controls differ. I mean that if you got into Harvard, Wharton, etc. and go to an interview with a visa officer, he/she just sees the logo in the letter of acceptance and you are done, approved -- your interview lasted like 30 sec. Have this experience with a few of my friends did MBAs in the US. Moreover, I have a friend from my home country who did Ivey recently, he is quite older that I am and traveled with his wife and daughter, he got refused in the first try but approved in the second, just changing his wording that he recognizes immigration rules, etc. and might consider staying and working in Canada only and if he has a job offer and a legal way to do so (PGWP), but the primary purpose is to come back. Why do you think it differs so significantly and why the officer decides on your career? And whether this change in the wording, as my friend did, might work in my case too? Basically, a visa officer should see that I recognize it and I wrote it in the explanation letter.
Another point is that I do have a post-MBA job offer in my home country and it is the post-MBA position (required to have MBA under the program I applied for), but in the job offer I attached, there is no specification on it -- do you think it's a good idea to ask my future employer such an excerpt from their recruiting policy?
And yeah, how feasible is the idea to address the above points (stay in Canada only and if a legal option arises, and I have job offer with MBA requirement) so I would re-apply again with also my wife's points re-addressed (apologizing for misinterpreting the visa refusals question (sincerely thought it was only about Canada) and declaring she was rejected in US visas in the past)? Or waiting for GCMS notes, re-applying in a month and hoping to be in time for March intake is a better option?