PR Obligation - Rule of 6 months in a year.

[PMM]

Hi

My Wife got PR in Jan 2014 she came here in UAE in 16 June 2014 we got married . then she returned to Canada in 27 Nov 2014 & she applied for my sponsorship. when she reached there she realized that she is pregnant. then she came back in 1st May 2015 to deliver the baby here in UAE.
We had a baby boy in August 2015. not we are waiting for decision on my sponsorship application.
Now her stay outside Canada is more than 6 month . we are planning to go back in April 2016
is this OK or there ll be some complications ?

Lots of complications, as PR your wife had to remain in Canada during the sponsorship of you, it appears she hasn't and if CIC determines that she has not been residing in Canada, they will refuse your application.

 

[galligirl]

I need solid information regarding retaining my PR status and the length of time I can be in the US. I've been a PR since November 1981. I have travelled to the US for short stays (a week or two) throughout. I have heard about the 6 month rule for years yet now I keep seeing a new rule saying that I must be in Canada for two full years out of five full years. I absolutely met and meet that requirement from the day I landed to present. So which one is the current rule? And...I must also be in Canada for 153 days every year to retain my health care ( that's only about my health care ). If the rule is 2 years out of 5 years to retain PR, ( which, I guess, would allow me to stay in the US for more than a year ) how do I meet the 153 day requirement for my health care if I want to be out of Canada for more than one year continuously? Also, is it true that if you go to the US and return the same day, that short trip counts as a day out of Canada?

 

[canuck78]

I need solid information regarding retaining my PR status and the length of time I can be in the US. I've been a PR since November 1981. I have travelled to the US for short stays (a week or two) throughout. I have heard about the 6 month rule for years yet now I keep seeing a new rule saying that I must be in Canada for two full years out of five full years. I absolutely met and meet that requirement from the day I landed to present. So which one is the current rule? And...I must also be in Canada for 153 days every year to retain my health care ( that's only about my health care ). If the rule is 2 years out of 5 years to retain PR, ( which, I guess, would allow me to stay in the US for more than a year ) how do I meet the 153 day requirement for my health care if I want to be out of Canada for more than one year continuously? Also, is it true that if you go to the US and return the same day, that short trip counts as a day out of Canada?

You will have to look at the province for information about how long you can be out of the province before losing your healthcare. If you leave and return to Canada the same day it counts as being in Canada. Would be best if you actually specify what you are trying to do.

 

[galligirl]

You will have to look at the province for information about how long you can be out of the province before losing your healthcare. If you leave and return to Canada the same day it counts as being in Canada. Would be best if you actually specify what you are trying to do.

I'm in Ontario and I travel to Ohio more often now, as much as two weeks a month. I was born and raised in Ohio. I know I'm supposed to keep track of my travelling and I don't want to lose my PR status (and my health care) because I'm out of Canada too long. The requirement of 153 days in Canada to retain my health care isn't the problem, knowing the total number of days I'm allowed to be out of Canada is the issue. If I'm out too long I'll lose both the health care and my PR status. A Service Canada employee told me that based on the number of years I've been here I'd have about 3 years that I could be away continuously. That didn't sound right compared to everything I've heard. It's extremely important that I have the correct information. If Service Canada is right, I'd retain my health care in Canada and could stay out of Canada up to three years, if he's wrong, I would have no health care in either country. In those three years in the US I will not meet the requirement of being in Canada 153 days each year. I need to know which scenario is correct. And I was told that any part of a day spent in the US counts as a day out of Canada.

 

[21Goose]

I'm in Ontario and I travel to Ohio more often now, as much as two weeks a month. I was born and raised in Ohio. I know I'm supposed to keep track of my travelling and I don't want to lose my PR status (and my health care) because I'm out of Canada too long. The requirement of 153 days in Canada to retain my health care isn't the problem, knowing the total number of days I'm allowed to be out of Canada is the issue. If I'm out too long I'll lose both the health care and my PR status. A Service Canada employee told me that based on the number of years I've been here I'd have about 3 years that I could be away continuously. That didn't sound right compared to everything I've heard. It's extremely important that I have the correct information. If Service Canada is right, I'd retain my health care in Canada and could stay out of Canada up to three years, if he's wrong, I would have no health care in either country. In those three years in the US I will not meet the requirement of being in Canada 153 days each year. I need to know which scenario is correct. And I was told that any part of a day spent in the US counts as a day out of Canada.

The current rule (in place since 2002) is that you have to have 730 days of presence in a rolling five year period to maintain your PR.

So, if you are returning from the US to Canada tomorrow (5 May 2019), you need to have 730 days of presence in Canada from 5 May 2014-5 May 2019. If you cannot prove that you have 730 days of presence in that period, CBSA can begin the process to revoke your PR.

Any part of a day spent in Canada counts as a full day in Canada for the purposes of meeting your Residency Obligations.

The rules for health care differ from province to province and they may be different from the RO rules, so I can't speak to that.

 

[canuck78]

https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-coverage-while-outside-canada

I’ve attached OHIP information about long absences. Not sure what you do for a living and if you receive any form of benefits from the government or municipality but long absences from Canada can effect those. If travelling outside Ontario you should get travel insurance. OHIP provides very limited reimbursement for foreign medical care but the Ford government is trying to eliminate that. It would not even come close to covering any healthcare expenses in the US while it still exists.

 

[Yellow ochre]

As a new PR, I only stayed in Canada for 7 months, then went back to Philippines and stayed for more than a year now.. Can igo back to Canada with my residency status still intact? I have my PR card with me.

 

[Bs65]

As a new PR, I only stayed in Canada for 7 months, then went back to Philippines and stayed for more than a year now.. Can igo back to Canada with my residency status still intact? I have my PR card with me.

You need to be in a Canada for a minimum of 2 years in the first 5 years and thereafter 2 years in any 5 year period preceding any new entry .

So sure you could be away for near 3 years from landing as long as with the 7 months credit you have already you can accumulate another 17 months By time the 5 years is up from initial landing, not from PR card issue date by the way.

 

[jobin.luke]

If it was a renewal, it is possible that he does not meet the RO even if he has 3 years left on his card. Say for example he stayed in Canada 6 months after his landing, then left and was gone for 3 years, then came back and spent 1.5 years and then renewed his PR card, he would meet the RO with 2 years in Canada. However, if he left after renewing it, the 6 months he spent after his landing move outside the window of the past 5 years and in that case, he is short on the RO by 6 months.

Once you have been a PR for more than 5 years, you always have to have at least 730 days in Canada in the past 5. It is not enough to meet the RO for one PR card renewal and then think it will not be looked at again until the next renewal.

Hi Leon,

Could you please confirm if the RO checks happen in the same way in 2020 too? My situation is like I have 1.5 years at the beginning of the first 5-year window and 0.5 years in the last part of the window. I was thinking to be away from Canada for some more time due to personal reasons and return after another 1.5 Years. Will this approach result in deportation since I will not have 730 days cumulative when I land back in Canad after 1.5 or 2 years of PR card renewal.

Thanks in advance
Jobins

 

[dpenabill]

Could you please confirm if the RO checks happen in the same way in 2020 too? My situation is like I have 1.5 years at the beginning of the first 5-year window and 0.5 years in the last part of the window. I was thinking to be away from Canada for some more time due to personal reasons and return after another 1.5 Years. Will this approach result in deportation since I will not have 730 days cumulative when I land back in Canad after 1.5 or 2 years of PR card renewal.

The PR Residency Obligation has not changed in nearly two decades. PRs are still *obligated* to spend at least 730 days within the relevant five years IN Canada. Once the PR's date of landing is more than five years past, the relevant five years is the most recent five years. That is, days in Canada more than five years ago DO NOT COUNT toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation.

While compliance with the PR RO is a necessary element in the PR card renewal process, the renewal of a PR card has NO relevance in determining whether a PR is in compliance with the RO. As stated in the post you quote:

"If it was a renewal, it is possible that he does not meet the RO even if he has 3 years left on his card. . . . ​

. . . Once you have been a PR for more than 5 years, you always have to have at least 730 days in Canada in the past 5. It is not enough to meet the RO for one PR card renewal and then think it will not be looked at again until the next renewal. "​

Yes, this remains true. Again, the PR RO has not changed in nearly two decades.

Thus, NO MATTER when you are issued a new PR card, NO MATTER how much longer it is valid, how much longer it will be until it expires, whether or not you are in compliance with the RO will depend on how many days you have been IN Canada within the preceding five years as of the date you arrive at a PoE returning to Canada.

This year's circumstances may lead to more flexibility, even leniency, in how strictly the RO is enforced. That is, relief for those breaching the RO, based on H&C considerations, may be broadened or expanded some. There is no hint of a general policy about this, so it remains highly likely H&C relief will continue to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on the individual PR's circumstances.

Gambling on H&C relief more than a year from now would, indeed, be gambling.

RISK OF DEPORTATION:

"Will this approach result in deportation since I will not have 730 days cumulative [when I return to Canada]?"​

The procedure is not so simple as to support a simple yes or no response to this question. The overall RISK is that the failure to comply with the RO can lead to the loss of PR status when a Removal or Departure Order becomes enforceable. So, yes, when you return to Canada if you have been outside Canada for more than 1095 days within the preceding five years (thus, IN Canada less than 730 days within the preceding five years), that can lead, eventually, to being deported.

The procedure is discussed in numerous topics here, from being examined at the PoE, issued a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to a breach of the RO by a CBSA officer in Secondary, and then interviewed by another officer who determines whether to issue a Departure Order (sometimes called a "Removal Order"), and then being allowed to enter Canada and given 30 days in which to appeal . . . up to and including the process in an appeal, and how H&C factors are weighed.

As noted, there may be some additional flexibility or leniency exercised in the coming months, perhaps as long as a year, due to this year's unusual circumstances. Nonetheless, some basics remain true:

-- RO requires presence in Canada for at least 730 days within the previous five years (PR card dates NOT relevant)​

-- best to get back to Canada BEFORE breaching the RO​

-- failing that, best to get back to Canada as soon as possible, with as small a breach of the RO as possible​

-- relying on H&C relief is a gamble​

 

[jobin.luke]

The PR Residency Obligation has not changed in nearly two decades. PRs are still *obligated* to spend at least 730 days within the relevant five years IN Canada. Once the PR's date of landing is more than five years past, the relevant five years is the most recent five years. That is, days in Canada more than five years ago DO NOT COUNT toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation.

While compliance with the PR RO is a necessary element in the PR card renewal process, the renewal of a PR card has NO relevance in determining whether a PR is in compliance with the RO. As stated in the post you quote:

"If it was a renewal, it is possible that he does not meet the RO even if he has 3 years left on his card. . . . ​

. . . Once you have been a PR for more than 5 years, you always have to have at least 730 days in Canada in the past 5. It is not enough to meet the RO for one PR card renewal and then think it will not be looked at again until the next renewal. "​

Yes, this remains true. Again, the PR RO has not changed in nearly two decades.

Thus, NO MATTER when you are issued a new PR card, NO MATTER how much longer it is valid, how much longer it will be until it expires, whether or not you are in compliance with the RO will depend on how many days you have been IN Canada within the preceding five years as of the date you arrive at a PoE returning to Canada.

This year's circumstances may lead to more flexibility, even leniency, in how strictly the RO is enforced. That is, relief for those breaching the RO, based on H&C considerations, may be broadened or expanded some. There is no hint of a general policy about this, so it remains highly likely H&C relief will continue to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on the individual PR's circumstances.

Gambling on H&C relief more than a year from now would, indeed, be gambling.

RISK OF DEPORTATION:

"Will this approach result in deportation since I will not have 730 days cumulative [when I return to Canada]?"​

The procedure is not so simple as to support a simple yes or no response to this question. The overall RISK is that the failure to comply with the RO can lead to the loss of PR status when a Removal or Departure Order becomes enforceable. So, yes, when you return to Canada if you have been outside Canada for more than 1095 days within the preceding five years (thus, IN Canada less than 730 days within the preceding five years), that can lead, eventually, to being deported.

The procedure is discussed in numerous topics here, from being examined at the PoE, issued a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to a breach of the RO by a CBSA officer in Secondary, and then interviewed by another officer who determines whether to issue a Departure Order (sometimes called a "Removal Order"), and then being allowed to enter Canada and given 30 days in which to appeal . . . up to and including the process in an appeal, and how H&C factors are weighed.

As noted, there may be some additional flexibility or leniency exercised in the coming months, perhaps as long as a year, due to this year's unusual circumstances. Nonetheless, some basics remain true:

-- RO requires presence in Canada for at least 730 days within the previous five years (PR card dates NOT relevant)​

-- best to get back to Canada BEFORE breaching the RO​

-- failing that, best to get back to Canada as soon as possible, with as small a breach of the RO as possible​

-- relying on H&C relief is a gamble​

Thank you dpenabill for a clear explanation.

 

[SONU200533]

Hi All,
We got the PR from Quebec under Skilled Worker Category last year. But due to new job opportunity we have moved to Ontario.
1. Will that create any issue when we will apply for citizen after 2 years.
2. If by any chance our citizen doesn't come till the duration of my PR tenure. Can I renew my PR while living in Ontario?

 

[armoured]

Hi All,
We got the PR from Quebec under Skilled Worker Category last year. But due to new job opportunity we have moved to Ontario.
1. Will that create any issue when we will apply for citizen after 2 years.
2. If by any chance our citizen doesn't come till the duration of my PR tenure. Can I renew my PR while living in Ontario?

No, no issue. And yes, you can renew PR in Ontario.

 

[canuck78]

Hi All,
We got the PR from Quebec under Skilled Worker Category last year. But due to new job opportunity we have moved to Ontario.
1. Will that create any issue when we will apply for citizen after 2 years.
2. If by any chance our citizen doesn't come till the duration of my PR tenure. Can I renew my PR while living in Ontario?

Assume you landed while still living in Quebec.

 

[SONU200533]

No, no issue. And yes, you can renew PR in Ontario.

Thank you for this information.
Please don't mind. could you please tell me how i can verify this. its vey important for me. any govt website or anything else u can suggest.

Thanks once again