Short of Residency Obligation

[dpenabill]

As I understand I can enter Canada by road from US side (B1) visa on expired PR card. At the most border officer will report my case of not meeting RO/returning after 6 years. I will still be allowed to enter and work until decision on my PR revoke case is made.

am in similar situation - my PR card expired an year ago and I don't meet RO by 500 days. Not in Canada since last 6 years.
I hv US B1travel visa, if I enter Canada via land from US , I understand border officer will report my case to immigration and process of removing my PR begins and I will have 30 days to file for appeal in Canada. I am ok with this. But.

1. Can there be a scenario that border officer do not allow me enter Canada with expired PR card and not meeting RO and out of Canada for last 6 years?

2. Also, I am married now and have kid, do that have to apply for visitor visa in order to travel with me? Or there is something dependant visa for them?

Yes, TECHNICALLY you can enter Canada as a matter of right. And if you arrive at a PoE on the U.S. border, you can stand on that right and the border officials will allow YOU to enter.

That does NOT mean your child will be allowed entry. And if the child is traveling WITH YOU, that complicates things, complicates things a lot.

Frankly, UNLESS you have good H&C reasons to explain your absence, it is difficult to perceive WHY you are considering this. And if you do have a strong H&C case, and you want the child to accompany you, the more sensible approach would be to make a PR Travel Document application based on H&C grounds.

Individually, ALONE, it may make sense to come to Canada via the U.S., so that you can for sure enter Canada. Take your chances so to say. Or recognizing you will only be allowed to remain in Canada temporarily. Your reasons, expectations, and intentions are for you to consider.

But being accompanied by a child who does not have status changes the dynamics considerably.

If the child is not visa-exempt, the child will need a visa. That route is complicated, probably NOT workable, at least not in a way that would allow the child to accompany you.

EVEN IF the child is visa-exempt, if the child is accompanying you upon your arrival at the PoE, the combination of your expired PR card, your lengthy absence, and a child without status, will almost certainly trigger a referral to Secondary and a more probing examination of your status, including in particular your history of absence from Canada. I cannot forecast how this will go. A lot could depend on a wide, wide range of personal circumstances, including any plausible H&C reasons for the delay in coming to Canada, including any other compelling reasons for why Canadian authorities should allow your child to enter Canada DESPITE YOUR status as INADMISSIBLE.

In the past border officials were sometimes known to pressure Inadmissible PRs to renounce their PR status and then apply for visitor status. Technically the border officials could not deny entry to a PR who declines to renounce PR status, but it appears the officials would sometimes frame things in a way that made some Inadmissible PRs believe they would not be allowed to enter Canada except as a visitor. Purportedly CBSA has been doing better and not pressuring PRs in this way. It is not clear to what extent they are even advising PRs that they can renounce PR status and apply for visitor status.



Potential PoE Standoff (of a sort):

You asked "Can there be a scenario that border officer do not allow me enter Canada . . . " No, not you ALONE. But, they can deny allowing you to enter accompanied by a child without status.

TECHNICALLY you have a right to enter Canada. TECHNICALLY the child can be denied entry. Will the border officials stand on the latter technicality if you stand on the technicality of your right to enter Canada? That's the possible standoff you might encounter.

I do NOT know that it would happen this way, but it is easy to see the leverage a PoE official would have over an INADMISSIBLE PR who is accompanied by a child without status. They can deny the child entry. Simple as that. Would they? I do NOT KNOW.


Again, for emphasis, I do not know how border officials will respond to your situation in particular. BUT this brings this back to the fact that currently you are, essentially, a PR MERELY as a TECHNICALITY. You are an INADMISSIBLE PR. Which brings this back to whether or not you have an explanation for the length of absence that would make a decent H&C case.

And which also demands recognizing there is an elephant-in-the-room: what is the planned trip to Canada about -- why are you coming to Canada. No need to respond about this here. This is more about the context in which border officials will be making decisions if and when you arrive at a PoE seeking to return to Canada accompanied by your child . . . basically about whether your situation will encourage border officials to take a more flexible, lenient approach. That is, your reasons for this trip will likely have significant influence in how it goes.

 

[canuck78]

Would add that it doesn’t sound like your wife has PR either. You can try to get a TRV but chances are not great. If you don’t get reported you can sponsor both your spouse and your child after 2 years when you become compliant with your RO again. That means around 3 years of separation.

 

[sislam1]

Since you all are talking about residency requirements, I wanted to re-post this question: She soft landed in Canada in June of 2018. However, due to a temporary, but good job offer in the US for a one year fellowship, she left Canada to work. Now she is stuck in another country due to the pandemic. Worst scenario can be that she will return to Canada in June of 2021. So do you feel from experience if she will have any issues returning to Canada? What are some things she can do to ensure no issues at the border? Her PR card is valid for the full 5 years starting June 2018. Thank you everyone for your expert guidance!

 

[dpenabill]

Since you all are talking about residency requirements, I wanted to re-post this question: She soft landed in Canada in June of 2018. However, due to a temporary, but good job offer in the US for a one year fellowship, she left Canada to work. Now she is stuck in another country due to the pandemic. Worst scenario can be that she will return to Canada in June of 2021. So do you feel from experience if she will have any issues returning to Canada? What are some things she can do to ensure no issues at the border? Her PR card is valid for the full 5 years starting June 2018. Thank you everyone for your expert guidance!

Be aware that what is posted here cannot and should NOT be considered, let alone relied upon, to be "expert" guidance.

Many here do, nonetheless, make an effort to provide helpful information. But it should not be considered or relied on to be "expert." (For expert opinion or advice, see a bona fide immigration-experienced lawyer.)

As long as a new immigrant arrives at a Canadian PoE prior to the third year anniversary of the day that person landed and became a Permanent Resident, they are FOR-SURE in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. This is because there are still at least 730 days left in that PR's first FIVE years, which means no matter how much they have been outside Canada up to that point, they can still meet the RO.

As of the third year anniversary of the date of landing, compliance with the RO depends on how many days the PR has been outside Canada. Technically compliance is calculated by adding the number of days IN Canada so far, since the day of landing, PLUS the number of days left on the calendar to the fifth year anniversary of the day of landing. It that total is at least 730, the PR is in compliance.

What that really amounts to is that a PR can be abroad UP TO but NOT MORE than three years (1095 days) during the first five years. If at any time prior to the fifth year anniversary of landing, the PR is outside Canada more than 1095 days, that constitutes a breach of the RO.

Any PR in breach of the RO is subject to being issued a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility based on the failure to comply with the RO when they arrive at and are examined at a PoE. Whether that is what actually happens can vary considerably. More than a few new immigrants report they were NOT issued a 44(1) Report upon arrival at a PoE even though they were in breach at the time.

The RISK factors are far too numerous and variable to attempt enumerating them. The BEST approach is to return to Canada before being abroad for 1095 days total since landing. For a PR who cannot manage that, the simplest and probably most influential factor is simply HOW SOON the PR does make it to Canada.

Another obviously huge factor is the credibility of the PR when responding to questions in the PoE examination.

It warrants a reminder that credibility is not just a matter of honesty, although honesty is of course a key element. Credibility is about the extent to which an individual may be relied upon to be an accurate reporter of facts. So mistakes, poor recall, or vaguely stated facts, can all have a negative effect on an individual's credibility.

Which brings this to the scenario described. Certain aspects of it are, well, let's just say unclear.

For example, it is NOT likely a PR who landed in June 2018 actually received a PR card in June. Possibly but not likely. If the PR card expires in June 2023, it is more likely the individual landed in May or perhaps even April 2018, not June (time for issuing new PRs their PR card is rarely less than a month, and typically a little longer than that). The reason this makes a difference is that the key date is the date of landing, NOT the date the PR card was issued, and NOT the date the PR card expires. The new PR (PR in first five years) has a good chance border officials will waive the PR through if the PR card is still valid for another two years, or close to that even. But the key date is the date of landing, and if the new PR has been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since that date, the PR is in breach of the RO and would nonetheless still face some risk of being closely examined and issued a RO breach report.

The other example has to do with describing the situation. Clearly the reason why this PR remained abroad so long is NOT about a ONE year fellowship in the U.S. and Covid-19. One year from June 2018 is many months prior to when travel restrictions came into effect due to Covid-19, and for Canadian PRs in the U.S., they have been allowed to return to Canada this whole time, and in the beginning of the pandemic Canadians (including Canadian PRs) were very much encouraged by the Canadian government to do so.

NO need to clarify the situation here. As noted, none of us here can reliably offer expert guidance anyway (at least not in this venue). I just mention these aspects to emphasize the importance of being both HONEST and as much as possible, clear and accurate, when dealing with authorities and answering questions related to RO compliance.

Again, if the PR cannot make it back to Canada before being outside Canada more than 1095 days since the day of landing, among the many factors which can influence how things go, TWO loom very large: the sooner the PR gets here, the better, AND, the more honest and otherwise credible the PR is, the better. It could also help to have a definite plan about staying in Canada, settling in Canada.

The best approach is to return to Canada, and then STAY (at least the next two years), BEFORE having been outside Canada for 1095 or more days since landing.

 

[sislam1]

Thank you for your wonderfully detailed response. I really appreciate the candid reply. The landing date was in June 2018. After the fellowship ended in the U, it was followed by return to citizenship country to sell personal items, belongings, close bank accounts, and other housekeeping in Jan 2020, before the Pandemic started. Thus the delay. Thus, worst case scenario, at max, it would be o.k. to be out till June 2021, but as you clearly mention, the earlier the better. Ofcourse its hard to find jobs in this crisis and would be eating into savings.

At the PoE, what kind of questions are asked, if any? Is it just a swip your PR card, get a stamp in your passport and thats it?

Thank you everyone!

 

[dpenabill]

Thus, worst case scenario, at max, it would be o.k. to be out till June 2021 . . .

At the PoE, what kind of questions are asked, if any? Is it just a swip your PR card, get a stamp in your passport and thats it?

Correct, there is NO Residency Obligation issue at all so long as the PR returns to Canada before the day in June 2021 that the PR landed in June 2018.

As for the nature and scope of examination at the PoE upon arrival, that is a huge and widely variable subject. That said, getting a stamp in the passport is actually rather unusual these days.

Even returning Canadian citizens can be, and often are, asked a fairly extensive range of questions. But usually most of the questions asked are simple formalities asked by an officer in what is called the Primary Inspection Line (PIL). Typically, beyond verification of identity and status itself, these questions tend to be more about customs (importation of items).

If the PIL officer identifies any reason to question the traveler further, the PIL officer makes a referral to an officer in "Secondary," which can be a referral to a Customs officer or to an immigration officer, or the Secondary examination can be in regards to both . . . or, for example, an officer conducting a Secondary examination focused on screening what is being imported might see or hear something which triggers more extensive immigration status questions.

There is a huge, huge range of questions that can be asked. The usual range is rather minimal and perfunctory.

The typical approach is like applying triage criteria. The scope of the examination subject to telescoping if and when the examining officers encounter information triggering an increased level of scrutiny.

The vast majority of PRs returning to Canada are, thus, typically screened relatively the same as returning Canadian citizens. At most a few questions to verify who the traveler is and the traveler's status as a Canadian (either Canadian PR or Canadian citizen), and to discern whether there are customs/importation issues. But if and when an officer perceives there are *questions* or *concerns* to be addressed, the nature and dynamics of the examination can evolve a rather lot.

Many PRs returning to Canada just before they will be in breach of the RO have been "admonished" or "cautioned" about their Residency Obligation. More than a few who are already in breach but not by much also get such an admonishment, rather than issued the 44(1) Report. That is they are, in a way, given a break.

One of the big problems PRs run into if they did a soft-landing and then were outside Canada for nearly three years (or longer) is that even though allowed into Canada without being *Reported* they cannot leave Canada at all for the next two years without more seriously risking the loss of their PR status. For more than a few this turns out to be more difficult than they previously anticipated.

 

[sislam1]

Correct, there is NO Residency Obligation issue at all so long as the PR returns to Canada before the day in June 2021 that the PR landed in June 2018.

As for the nature and scope of examination at the PoE upon arrival, that is a huge and widely variable subject. That said, getting a stamp in the passport is actually rather unusual these days.

Even returning Canadian citizens can be, and often are, asked a fairly extensive range of questions. But usually most of the questions asked are simple formalities asked by an officer in what is called the Primary Inspection Line (PIL). Typically, beyond verification of identity and status itself, these questions tend to be more about customs (importation of items).

If the PIL officer identifies any reason to question the traveler further, the PIL officer makes a referral to an officer in "Secondary," which can be a referral to a Customs officer or to an immigration officer, or the Secondary examination can be in regards to both . . . or, for example, an officer conducting a Secondary examination focused on screening what is being imported might see or hear something which triggers more extensive immigration status questions.

There is a huge, huge range of questions that can be asked. The usual range is rather minimal and perfunctory.

The typical approach is like applying triage criteria. The scope of the examination subject to telescoping if and when the examining officers encounter information triggering an increased level of scrutiny.

The vast majority of PRs returning to Canada are, thus, typically screened relatively the same as returning Canadian citizens. At most a few questions to verify who the traveler is and the traveler's status as a Canadian (either Canadian PR or Canadian citizen), and to discern whether there are customs/importation issues. But if and when an officer perceives there are *questions* or *concerns* to be addressed, the nature and dynamics of the examination can evolve a rather lot.

Many PRs returning to Canada just before they will be in breach of the RO have been "admonished" or "cautioned" about their Residency Obligation. More than a few who are already in breach but not by much also get such an admonishment, rather than issued the 44(1) Report. That is they are, in a way, given a break.

One of the big problems PRs run into if they did a soft-landing and then were outside Canada for nearly three years (or longer) is that even though allowed into Canada without being *Reported* they cannot leave Canada at all for the next two years without more seriously risking the loss of their PR status. For more than a few this turns out to be more difficult than they previously anticipated.

What a wonderfully detailed answer! = ) The PIL are doing their job as they should be, to keep rules and regulations in place, and Canada safe for everyone. I eagerly look forward to going back home to Canada.

 

[IndianBos]

Quick question if someone can help please:
Background: I became a PR on 7-Sep-2015 and finally moved from US to Canada on 28-Sep-2018. I was a few days short on the residency obligation, was sent to secondary at the land border for some additional questions but finally was let go with a warning, asking me to stay for 2 years straight. I am trying to stay put for 2 years straight now.
My PR card is coming up for renewal, it expires on 31-Oct-2020. I know I should apply after 30-Sep, but what would you consider safe? Is applying around 15-Oct ok, Given the processing time is 150+days.

 

[shettyhemant]

Quick question if someone can help please:
Background: I became a PR on 7-Sep-2015 and finally moved from US to Canada on 28-Sep-2018. I was a few days short on the residency obligation, was sent to secondary at the land border for some additional questions but finally was let go with a warning, asking me to stay for 2 years straight. I am trying to stay put for 2 years straight now.
My PR card is coming up for renewal, it expires on 31-Oct-2020. I know I should apply after 30-Sep, but what would you consider safe? Is applying around 15-Oct ok, Given the processing time is 150+days.

Best to apply with some grace period as in 770+ days to avoid any secondary review. However I need to ask you, when you were sent to secondary review at the border, did you sign any papers ? The officers may have left a note on your account regarding the residency obligation. I would also send a lot of proofs that you have been in the country for the 2 years straight as in all the pages on the passport that has entry and exit stamps, utility bills since 2018, credit card bills, school admission papers if you have kids etc. All the best with your application.

 

[IndianBos]

Best to apply with some grace period as in 770+ days to avoid any secondary review. However I need to ask you, when you were sent to secondary review at the border, did you sign any papers ? The officers may have left a note on your account regarding the residency obligation. I would also send a lot of proofs that you have been in the country for the 2 years straight as in all the pages on the passport that has entry and exit stamps, utility bills since 2018, credit card bills, school admission papers if you have kids etc. All the best with your application.

Thank you, I didnt sign any papers but she mentioned she has made notes on our file. We haven't travelled since. Doesnt CIC get the travel info from CBSA directly? 770 days puts it at end of Oct approx. Thank you for the suggestion on proof on residence.

 

[armoured]

Thank you, I didnt sign any papers but she mentioned she has made notes on our file. We haven't travelled since. Doesnt CIC get the travel info from CBSA directly? 770 days puts it at end of Oct approx. Thank you for the suggestion on proof on residence.

CIC does get info directly from CBSA systems and also from info sharing with other agencies e.g. US government.

But: there are gaps in system reporting and they will check against info you provide. I.e. they will get more picky for cases where information is different.

In your case, it should be relatively easy - "I have not left Canada since [date]" and provide what supporting documents like passports you have, as suggested above. More of an issue for those that travel a lot.

 

[salahuddin2]

Hi, I received my PR in June 2016. My 5 year period ends June 2021.

Until now i have completed 3 months in Canada between 2016 June to date. I'm currently in my home country and is planning to move back to Canada in April 2020. However, by June 2021 when my 5 year period ends i will only complete like 16 months whereas technically i should complete 24 months ( 730 days ).

My question is whether i would be able to extend my PR in June 2021 although i haven't met the 730 days residency obligation.

Hi Shehan

Can you update on your situation ?
Did you try to enter ? Were ypu reported ?
Which PoE you used ?

 

[mira_johnson]

I'm reading all of these posts of PRs being short on RO and still able to get back into Canada without being reported. But could there be other consequences? Could it be considered a kind of fraud and catch up on the PR sometime in the future or is it totally legal (even mentioned in a law somewhere)? What if someone that knows about their short RO made a report to cic? It seems like the PR in the circumstance avoid all contact with cic, so is this to avoid drawing attention to their profile? I am feeling so confused how there seems to be loophole into this rule and how legal it really is... anyone? Thanks

 

[armoured]

I'm reading all of these posts of PRs being short on RO and still able to get back into Canada without being reported. But could there be other consequences? Could it be considered a kind of fraud and catch up on the PR sometime in the future or is it totally legal (even mentioned in a law somewhere)? What if someone that knows about their short RO made a report to cic? It seems like the PR in the circumstance avoid all contact with cic, so is this to avoid drawing attention to their profile? I am feeling so confused how there seems to be loophole into this rule and how legal it really is... anyone? Thanks

It is entirely legal. No, it's not a trick. It's not considered fraud. The border agent has decided to be lenient (or other explanations, but this is the easy one).

In very brief terms, the practice is that IRCC only examines compliance with residency obligation at points of entry or other points such as requesting a new card, requesting to sponsor, etc.

Enter, get compliant, then take next steps.

 

[dpenabill]

I'm reading all of these posts of PRs being short on RO and still able to get back into Canada without being reported. But could there be other consequences? Could it be considered a kind of fraud and catch up on the PR sometime in the future or is it totally legal (even mentioned in a law somewhere)? What if someone that knows about their short RO made a report to cic? It seems like the PR in the circumstance avoid all contact with cic, so is this to avoid drawing attention to their profile? I am feeling so confused how there seems to be loophole into this rule and how legal it really is... anyone? Thanks

I agree with the observations offered by @armoured

While I do not address this particular aspect, in response to your other posts about your situation I offered some fairly in-depth observations. See the full post which is partially quoted here:

The Residency Obligation has a big escape valve, a relief valve, and that is the discretion granted to officers to allow a PR to keep PR status DESPITE a breach of the RO based on "humanitarian and compassionate considerations." This is prescribed in subsection 28(2)(c) IRPA; again, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-7.html#h-274598

In that post I discuss, as an example, the possibility that currently PoE officials might not be closely scrutinizing returning PRs, at least those with valid PR cards, for RO compliance. NOT sure of this. And it is likely that egregious and obvious cases are still subject to the RO enforcement process. But there is some indication that the attention of border officials is currently focused elsewhere.

ALSO NOTE: The PR Residency Obligation is NOT a *condition* for keeping PR status. It is not self-enforcing. A breach does NOT automatically terminate PR status. I go into this in more detail in the other post as well.