Just a shot in the dark, but now with that bloody pandemic situation going on, might not be the best time to attempt to go across the borders with an expired or out RO situation
I could be wrong .....
expired PR
- Thread starter aubergine
- Start date
I could be wrong .....
I agree fully.
Since we are all mostly resigned to indoor activities, I would suggest combing through OP10 - Permanent Residency Status Determination and ENF 23 - Loss of Permanent Resident Status.
My view has always been that you will always have an ability to argue your case at the border, whereas there is no chance at a conversation if filed overseas for PRTD. I've seen many cases where, for whatever reason, CBSA officers will just give people the benefit of the doubt and let them re-enter. It is then upon the Applicant to begin accumulating residency days at that point. But, for whatever reason, many seem to leave again after a short period of time!
If one travels to Canada at least once per year, to keep their 1/365 days provision open, then there is always an ability return to re-accumulate under A31(3)(c).
Probably best idea is to ensure you have a job prior to coming . One million applied for unemployment benefits last week, and more than likely another 500.000 to a million will apply this week.
It would be fool hardy to the extreme to arrive during this period
You’ve already busted your RO, few more months probably won’t make a difference
Not sure what you mean by "re-accumulate," but to be clear, if a PR obtains a PR Travel Document pursuant to Section 31(3)(c) IRPA, and comes to Canada, the days the PR then stays in Canada will NOT COUNT toward meeting the Residency Obligation (unless there is a successful outcome in the appeal).
To be clear, the operation of Section 31(3)(c) IRPA deals with issuing special PR Travel Documents to PRs who have appealed a decision denying a PR Travel Document. It is a special PR TD allowing the PR to return to Canada pending the appeal.
That is, it is for PRs who have already received a decision terminating their PR status, who are appealing that decision, and who have been in Canada within the preceding year. Whether such a PR will eventually be able to keep PR status depends on a successful outcome in the appeal.
Thus, the advantage gained by coming to Canada at least once annually is mostly for those who cannot return to Canada via the U.S., and is simply about being able to come to Canada pending an appeal if and when a PR TD application is denied. As you observe, for those PRs abroad without a valid PR card and in breach of the RO, typically better to travel via the U.S. and have the "ability to argue your case at the border, whereas there is no chance at a conversation if filed overseas for PRTD."
Even though days in Canada after arrival using a special PR TD issued pursuant to Section 31(3)(c) IRPA do NOT count toward RO compliance, those days can be a factor in the H&C analysis done by the IAD. Ordinarily this is not a particularly positive factor in itself, but it avoids the negative influence remaining outside Canada will generally have. (Mitigating a negative is a positive, of sorts, so being in Canada pending an appeal nets a positive. But it warrants emphasizing that the success of an appeal is far more dependent on other H&C factors; again, days in Canada after coming to Canada using such a PR TD will NOT count toward the calculation of RO compliance.)
Otherwise, I largely concur with the following:
That said, for further clarification: The PR who arrives at a PoE must be allowed to "re-enter." Whether the PR can then "begin accumulating residency days at that point" DEPENDS on whether the PR is issued a 44(1) Report for a breach of the RO or allowed to proceed into Canada without being issued a Report. Once issued a Report (similar to when a PR TD application is denied), days in Canada after that do NOT count toward RO compliance (again, unless there is a successful appeal).
Thanks for adding on to my comments. I think for the record of the thread, it is important to add the relevant legislation that you are quoting, at least for reference and discussion purposes:
- 62 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the calculation of days under paragraph 28(2)(a) of the Act in respect of a permanent resident does not include any day after
- (a) a report is prepared under subsection 44(1) of the Act on the ground that the permanent resident has failed to comply with the residency obligation; or
- (b) a decision is made outside of Canada that the permanent resident has failed to comply with the residency obligation.
- Exception
(2) If the permanent resident is subsequently determined to have complied with the residency obligation, subsection (1) does not apply.
I am in similar situation - my PR card expired an year ago and I don't meet RO by 500 days. Not in Canada since last 6 years.
I hv US B1travel visa, if I enter Canada via land from US , I understand border officer will report my case to immigration and process of removing my PR begins and I will have 30 days to file for appeal in Canada. I am ok with this. But.
Can there be a scenario that border officer do not allow me enter Canada with expired PR card and not meeting RO and out of Canada for last 6 years?
My understanding would be that as a PR you would be entitled to enter Canada whether reported or not .
There is no guarantee that you will get reported on entry it is not a done deal and can just depend on luck so you should approach CBSA on the basis of answering only questions asked, not volunteer any extra information. Always though of course answer honestly even though with an expired card odds might be against not being reported..
As for having a US B1 visa maybe double check that such a visa will currently allow travel into the US given the travel restrictions the US has placed due to COVID plus of course a B1 being a business visa you may need to be convincing to US CBP your travel into the US is a valid business visit
I un
As I understand I can enter Canada by road from US side (B1) visa on expired PR card. At the most border officer will report my case of not meeting RO/returning after 6 years. I will still be allowed to enter and work until decision on my PR revoke case is made.
Is this true?
I understand there are travel restrictions currently due to Covid, I m trying to understand best option to return to Canada in future - maybe 6 months down the line when Covid subsides.
As I understand I can enter Canada by road from US side (B1) visa on expired PR card. At the most border officer will report my case of not meeting RO/returning after 6 years. I will still be allowed to enter and work until decision on my PR revoke case is made.
Is this true?
Provided you have a valid SIN and etc., yes, you can attempt to find work if you can get into the US (where things are getting worse, not better, with no signs of subsiding) if you are admitted and reported for RO breach.
Does my SIN would have expired?
I got it updated after I landed with PR from temporary SIN to permanent one.
I will travel only when I have valid job before hand.
My only concern is that do not stop me at border and do not allow me enter since I wud not have any document except COPR copy or Expired PR card.
I have offered more in-depth observations in the other topic where you posed your query about entry into Canada despite RO breach and absence for six years.
Summary of those comments:
Yes, TECHNICALLY you can enter Canada as a matter of right. And if you arrive at a PoE on the U.S. border, you can stand on that right and the border officials will allow YOU to enter.
That does NOT mean your child will be allowed entry. And if the child is traveling WITH YOU, that complicates things, complicates things a lot.
You asked "Can there be a scenario that border officer do not allow me enter Canada . . . " No, not you ALONE. But, they can deny allowing you to enter accompanied by a child without status.
Thus, overall, TECHNICALLY you have a right to enter Canada. TECHNICALLY the child can be denied entry (which remains the case even if the child is issued a visa). Will the border officials stand on the latter technicality if you stand on the technicality of your right to enter Canada?
I do not know what the border officials will actually do. That is very difficult to forecast.
One thing I left out there is that you say you have been outside Canada for six years and you "don't meet RO by 500 days." Does NOT make sense. Unless you have been IN Canada at least 230 days within the past five years, you fail to meet the RO by MORE than 500 days.
While the difference between 500 days short of RO compliance and being even more short probably does not make a big difference overall (that is, even if it is just 500 days, that tips the scales heavily in a negative direction), it could have some influence depending on whether you have H&C reasons for the absence and how, in particular, those fit into why you have you have been absent so long.
In any event, I am responding further here to address a particular aspect:
Regarding "At the most border officer will report my case of not meeting RO . . ." NO, there can be and there will most likely be MORE to it than that. It is very likely the report, if there is a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to a breach of the Residency Obligation, will be IMMEDIATELY reviewed, then and there before you are allowed to enter Canada. And the "decision on my PR revoke case" will be made THEN and THERE, within minutes or an hour or so. If the officer who reviews the Report concludes the Report is valid and concludes there are not sufficient H&C reasons to allow you keep PR status despite the failure to comply with the RO, that officer, in that role acting as a "Minister's Delegate," that officer will issue you a DEPARTURE ORDER.
It is the combination of the 44(1) Report and Departure Order that constitutes a final adjudication terminating your PR status. This is like when a judge enters a conviction in a criminal case after the jury has found the defendant guilty. Defendant is convicted. With a right of appeal.
Indeed, if a 44(1) Report is issued but there is NO Departure Order issued, there is nothing to appeal. (How it works then depends on whether the Report remains outstanding, pending review by a Minister's Delegate, which is unusual but does happen, or whether it is reviewed and the Minister's Delegate decides to allow the PR to keep status, and thus not issue a Departure Order.)
BUT YES, if issued a Departure Order you still have a right of appeal and the Departure Order is not enforceable for 30 days. So yes you can stand on your right to enter Canada and you will be allowed to enter Canada. If you appeal, the Departure Order remains unenforceable, allowing you to continue staying and working in Canada, for as long as the appeal is still pending.
But make no mistake: the chances of winning the appeal are NOT as good as persuading the officer acting as a Minister's Delegate, during the PoE examination, that the PR should be allowed to keep PR status for H&C reasons. While PoE officials are not always more lenient than the IAD, they usually are.
BUT in the meantime, unless you persuade PoE officials you deserve to keep PR status, based on H&C reasons, you are INADMISSIBLE. Which brings this back to how having a child without status complicates things.
I really appreciate your reply, it is extremely helpful.
I understand my entry will get complicated if I bring wife n child along with me.
What if I travel Alone with H&C reasons? Even then there is a chance that officer can act as Ministers delegate and issue departure order? In this case they can't disallow my right to enter Canada, right?
I said I do not meet RO by 500 is correct bcz I stayed n worked in Canada for 7 months after PR stamping in 2014.
I even stayed more than 3 years in Canada prior to getting PR on valid WP.