PR card renewal now 299 days..

[desertrose416]

I respect that COVID 19 pandemic is causing things to slow down. But c'mon, Immigration has always been slow to begin with, any excuse to not work!
Citizenship applications and PR Renewals equals the same time frame, unreal.

 

[amrelroby]

I respect that COVID 19 pandemic is causing things to slow down. But c'mon, Immigration has always been slow to begin with, any excuse to not work!
Citizenship applications and PR Renewals equals the same time frame, unreal.

For some reason they do not care about renewing PR cards, also they do not seem to be willing to work remotely like everyone else.
They are a very privileged group of government workers.
Unlike other government departments, most of their clients are not citizens of Canada and can not really push for improvements in processing times.

 

[steaky]

For some reason they do not care about renewing PR cards, also they do not seem to be willing to work remotely like everyone else.
They are a very privileged group of government workers.
Unlike other government departments, most of their clients are not citizens of Canada and can not really push for improvements in processing times.

Which government departments are working remotely? Have you heard news that people waiting for their road test which had been suspended due to covid? Why examiners cannot work remotely?

 

[Kikilala]

For some reason they do not care about renewing PR cards

After being a PR for many years, I always have a feeling that Canada government, or IRCC don’t like PR to travel/ study/ working abroad. All they want a PR to do is to “sit still” in Canada. I think this time the 299 days processing time says it all.

From 2X days to 1XX days can be considered as “delay”, in my last renewal the processing time of routine process was also 1XX days. However, from 174 to 299 days is way too much, seems that it’s “ignore” our application rather than “delay”.

 

[amrelroby]

Which government departments are working remotely? Have you heard news that people waiting for their road test which had been suspended due to covid? Why examiners cannot work remotely?

I do not think driving road test is something you can work on it remotely. Road tests require close physical contact. CIC has physical contact with the public for processing PR cards. For example, CRA and Service Canada worked remotely to process EI and CERB and provide customer service and they handle millions of people in Canada.

 

[steaky]

I do not think driving road test is something you can work on it remotely. Road tests require close physical contact. CIC has physical contact with the public for processing PR cards. For example, CRA and Service Canada worked remotely to process EI and CERB and provide customer service and they handle millions of people in Canada.

But physical contact between CIC and the public is not usually required. PR cards can be sent via regular mail.

 

[automaton82]

After being a PR for many years, I always have a feeling that Canada government, or IRCC don’t like PR to travel/ study/ working abroad. All they want a PR to do is to “sit still” in Canada. I think this time the 299 days processing time says it all.

From 2X days to 1XX days can be considered as “delay”, in my last renewal the processing time of routine process was also 1XX days. However, from 174 to 299 days is way too much, seems that it’s “ignore” our application rather than “delay”.

I tend to agree with this. My spouse is actually the PR, while I'm a citizen.

If this actually remains at 300 days I think I'm going to launch a Human Rights tribunal case against the CIC. The PR card is required to travel, and freedom of travel is a constitutional right of all Canadians, including PRs. By denying travel for 1 year every 5 years, they are violating that right.

It's really the same argument as the right to a speedy trial.

 

[dpenabill]

The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized.

PR cards are merely status cards and are NON-essential. Many other immigration operations will be given priority before normal processing of PR card applications is fully restored.

I cannot discern how much of the noise about broken-systems or such is deliberate trolling or maliciously misleading. But Canadian immigrants can be assured that the system is not broken even though some elements related to international travel are, at this time and likely to continue for some time to come, subject to some severe limitations resulting in substantial inconvenience for many.

Despite some bad-faith ballyhoo the *crisis* is overblown, make no mistake, we are in a crisis, which means "time of great danger or trouble." This is real.

It warrants recognizing the widespread irresponsibility of our not so friendly neighbour to the south, including some of its more narcissistic citizens invading us based on false pretenses despite the effort to keep the border mostly closed. Thus, notwithstanding the scope of the effort this side of the border we remain at serious risk not only for this crisis to continue but at risk it could again get worse.

It is possible things could take a dramatic turn and in terms of both deaths and delays there is a risk you-ain't-seen-nothin-yet (I doubt it will go this way, and I certainly hope it does not go this way, but it is possible, and scores and scores of self-centered narcissists are pushing to increase the risk of this).

In the meantime, the allocation of internal resources at IRCC is, almost certainly, responsive to National priorities and circumstances. Conditions in Nova Scotia in particular probably have little influence in this.

It's really the same argument as the right to a speedy trial.

I do not follow this. You seem to be among those complaining that IRCC is not processing PR card applications quickly enough, especially given the temporary situation in which it looks like it could take up to 10 months.

But then you compare the situation to the right to a speedy trial . . . which requires a trial in 30 months. Are you really suggesting that it would be OK for IRCC to take up to TWO and A HALF years to process a PR card application?

I am not in concert with whining about the impact of this crisis, but even from my perspective that would be far too long.

 

[lloyd153]

The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized.

PR cards are merely status cards and are NON-essential. Many other immigration operations will be given priority before normal processing of PR card applications is fully restored.

I cannot discern how much of the noise about broken-systems or such is deliberate trolling or maliciously misleading. But Canadian immigrants can be assured that the system is not broken even though some elements related to international travel are, at this time and likely to continue for some time to come, subject to some severe limitations resulting in substantial inconvenience for many.

Despite some bad-faith ballyhoo the *crisis* is overblown, make no mistake, we are in a crisis, which means "time of great danger or trouble." This is real.

It warrants recognizing the widespread irresponsibility of our not so friendly neighbour to the south, including some of its more narcissistic citizens invading us based on false pretenses despite the effort to keep the border mostly closed. Thus, notwithstanding the scope of the effort this side of the border we remain at serious risk not only for this crisis to continue but at risk it could again get worse.

It is possible things could take a dramatic turn and in terms of both deaths and delays there is a risk you-ain't-seen-nothin-yet (I doubt it will go this way, and I certainly hope it does not go this way, but it is possible, and scores and scores of self-centered narcissists are pushing to increase the risk of this).

In the meantime, the allocation of internal resources at IRCC is, almost certainly, responsive to National priorities and circumstances. Conditions in Nova Scotia in particular probably have little influence in this.



I do not follow this. You seem to be among those complaining that IRCC is not processing PR card applications quickly enough, especially given the temporary situation in which it looks like it could take up to 10 months.

But then you compare the situation to the right to a speedy trial . . . which requires a trial in 30 months. Are you really suggesting that it would be OK for IRCC to take up to TWO and A HALF years to process a PR card application?

I am not in concert with whining about the impact of this crisis, but even from my perspective that would be far too long.

I agree with you in part. However, if the current system does not have the capacity or capability to undertake card production in its current form during this crisis, then they should be putting investment into improving that system.

Private companies invested in zoom, slack, paid for employees to have laptops that would allow them to work remotely - all to provide an efficient and effective manner to work remotely. IRCC should be doing the same.

To say that there is going to be such big delays to produce cards which are a requirements for travel is not acceptable. And if cards cannot be produced due to current conditions as a result of COVID, then they should be looking at alternative documentation / eligibility to prove that you are a Permanent Resident which could be linked to your passport for example.

There are always ways systems can change or improve to meet peoples needs. But to simply state a 1 year delay.....I don't think that is appropriate.

 

[dpenabill]

big delays to produce cards which are a requirements for travel is not acceptable

To be clear, a PR card is NOT necessary to travel abroad. It is way more convenient than obtaining a PR Travel Document, but is NOT essential to have a valid PR card. Hence, PR card application processing is, with exceptions, non-essential.

Given the limitations and restrictions on international travel given the CRISIS the Canadian government, and other responsible governments, are contending with, the need for a PR card for personal convenience is subject to delay anyway. Those with special, real needs can petition (request) IRCC. Problem is, those with real necessity must be sorted from the scores of narcissistic my-convenience-is-an-urgent-necessity requests.

There are always ways systems can change or improve to meet peoples needs.

Yep. For sure. But at the moment the government is dealing with a crisis and focused on getting through this. Not the time to be engineering or implementing system changes.

But to simply state a 1 year delay.....I don't think that is appropriate.

Apparently some think that the delays Canadians face when they have the full weight of the criminal law hanging over their head, their very freedom at stake, that is up to TWO and A HALF YEARS, would be appropriate.

That said, I have difficulty processing terms like "appropriate" in this context. Government processes deal with what are "reasonable" measures or actions and the right to procedural fairness. Procedural fairness may be very different from what many people think is "fair" in a general sense and is undoubtedly rather different than what more than a few will think is "fair" for them. Similarly, what is "reasonable" can vary widely, but will again almost certainly be different than what many individuals feel is reasonable.

The key factor underlying the more or less suspending of normal processing for PR cards is simply the government's judgment that PR card applications are NOT essential and that available government resources need to be allocated elsewhere for now. Not complicated. Falls under the rubric of crisis management.


WAS the GOVERNMENT INADEQUATELY PREPARED for this CRISIS?

That is a big question. It undoubtedly will deserve some after-the-fact evaluation. Could IRCC have had better policies and practices in place to handle this kind of crisis. I absolutely agree this is a review and decision-making process that needs to be done, AT the PROPER TIME. This particular crisis is not only NOT going to be the last this century, and quite likely not the worst.

Still not sure that PR card application processing deserves much attention in this regard, compared to all the other immigration-related functions, most of which are suffering greatly now and for which better planning should help mitigate the impact when there is another crisis of this or that sort.

For now we are still smack-dab in the middle of this crisis. Going to take awhile to get through this.

 

[amrelroby]

The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized.

PR cards are merely status cards and are NON-essential. Many other immigration operations will be given priority before normal processing of PR card applications is fully restored.

I cannot discern how much of the noise about broken-systems or such is deliberate trolling or maliciously misleading. But Canadian immigrants can be assured that the system is not broken even though some elements related to international travel are, at this time and likely to continue for some time to come, subject to some severe limitations resulting in substantial inconvenience for many.

Despite some bad-faith ballyhoo the *crisis* is overblown, make no mistake, we are in a crisis, which means "time of great danger or trouble." This is real.

It warrants recognizing the widespread irresponsibility of our not so friendly neighbour to the south, including some of its more narcissistic citizens invading us based on false pretenses despite the effort to keep the border mostly closed. Thus, notwithstanding the scope of the effort this side of the border we remain at serious risk not only for this crisis to continue but at risk it could again get worse.

It is possible things could take a dramatic turn and in terms of both deaths and delays there is a risk you-ain't-seen-nothin-yet (I doubt it will go this way, and I certainly hope it does not go this way, but it is possible, and scores and scores of self-centered narcissists are pushing to increase the risk of this).

In the meantime, the allocation of internal resources at IRCC is, almost certainly, responsive to National priorities and circumstances. Conditions in Nova Scotia in particular probably have little influence in this.



I do not follow this. You seem to be among those complaining that IRCC is not processing PR card applications quickly enough, especially given the temporary situation in which it looks like it could take up to 10 months.

But then you compare the situation to the right to a speedy trial . . . which requires a trial in 30 months. Are you really suggesting that it would be OK for IRCC to take up to TWO and A HALF years to process a PR card application?

I am not in concert with whining about the impact of this crisis, but even from my perspective that would be far too long.

I understand that PR cards may not be a priority like other processes but it can be critical for some people who want to travel for urgent family matters (and i assume many have urgent family issues these days). The jump in processing from 27 days to 299 days is extreme. CRA and Service Canada arranged for their employee to work remotely. I understand that these government departments are more critical to Canadians, however, CIC after four months of this crisis should be adapting and managing to increase productivity in this new norm of COVID-19. PR card processing fees are just 50$ which shows you that not too much work is needed to process them. So why basically stopping them completely. If you email CIC, you get an automated answer that they still working on PR card applications received on February 10! That same answer I got when I emailed them more than one month ago.
I understand that Canadian immigration system is generally good system. Much better and fair system than other countries. However, it is not a perfect system, and feedback/criticism/accountability mainly from its clients (the immigrants) is the only way it will improve.
The thing that I do not understand is why to dismiss our concerns and problems as whining.
Everybody has his/her issues during this crisis. Everyone has jobs to worry about, family in Canada and abroad wishing they will be fine.
I did not complain when the PR card processing time tripled or quadrupled even but after months of everyone trying to adapt to this new normal and CIC increase processing times by 10X times the normal. That's makes me a little upset.

 

[lloyd153]

To be clear, a PR card is NOT necessary to travel abroad. It is way more convenient than obtaining a PR Travel Document, but is NOT essential to have a valid PR card. Hence, PR card application processing is, with exceptions, non-essential.

There is no clarity as to the timeframe for a PR Travel Document either. So there is a big unknown, or time delay in get the only two forms of documents that would allow you back into the country.

Yep. For sure. But at the moment the government is dealing with a crisis and focused on getting through this. Not the time to be engineering or implementing system changes.

They have been implementing system changes to the immigration process already - they have changed the process of becoming a Permanent Resident - by removing the need to flagpole. It would not be inconceivable for them to implement minor changes to PR Cards, they could easily send out documentation similar to that of a BOWP.

That said, I have difficulty processing terms like "appropriate" in this context. Government processes deal with what are "reasonable" measures or actions and the right to procedural fairness. Procedural fairness may be very different from what many people think is "fair" in a general sense and is undoubtedly rather different than what more than a few will think is "fair" for them. Similarly, what is "reasonable" can vary widely, but will again almost certainly be different than what many individuals feel is reasonable.

What you, or the government see as 'fair' is extremely subjective and slightly heartless to peoples concerns or troubles. People have complex lives, and when you have family across the globe, which most immigrants do, there is a slightly different emotive play at hand, being away from family during this difficult time.

To use the current crisis as an excuse to not improve processes is quiet poor. Companies, and people adapt quickly so should an organisation like IRCC.

The bottom line is - it really shouldn't be difficult to produce a simple card - banks do it daily. Or alternatively they should be able to arrange an alternative quick travel document. To defend inefficiencies in the system because it's not what you view as a priority isn't fair.

 

[automaton82]

The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized.

PR cards are merely status cards and are NON-essential. Many other immigration operations will be given priority before normal processing of PR card applications is fully restored.

I cannot discern how much of the noise about broken-systems or such is deliberate trolling or maliciously misleading. But Canadian immigrants can be assured that the system is not broken even though some elements related to international travel are, at this time and likely to continue for some time to come, subject to some severe limitations resulting in substantial inconvenience for many.

Despite some bad-faith ballyhoo the *crisis* is overblown, make no mistake, we are in a crisis, which means "time of great danger or trouble." This is real.

It warrants recognizing the widespread irresponsibility of our not so friendly neighbour to the south, including some of its more narcissistic citizens invading us based on false pretenses despite the effort to keep the border mostly closed. Thus, notwithstanding the scope of the effort this side of the border we remain at serious risk not only for this crisis to continue but at risk it could again get worse.

It is possible things could take a dramatic turn and in terms of both deaths and delays there is a risk you-ain't-seen-nothin-yet (I doubt it will go this way, and I certainly hope it does not go this way, but it is possible, and scores and scores of self-centered narcissists are pushing to increase the risk of this).

In the meantime, the allocation of internal resources at IRCC is, almost certainly, responsive to National priorities and circumstances. Conditions in Nova Scotia in particular probably have little influence in this.



I do not follow this. You seem to be among those complaining that IRCC is not processing PR card applications quickly enough, especially given the temporary situation in which it looks like it could take up to 10 months.

But then you compare the situation to the right to a speedy trial . . . which requires a trial in 30 months. Are you really suggesting that it would be OK for IRCC to take up to TWO and A HALF years to process a PR card application?

I am not in concert with whining about the impact of this crisis, but even from my perspective that would be far too long.

I really can't disagree more. My spouse can't fly out of Canada and then back without the PR card. So it is required.

You claim the PRTD is an alternative, but the processing time is unknown before leaving and so is the end result of application. It's a ridiculous equivalence and you know it.

The PR card works essentially the same as the passport, and I'm pretty sure there'd be massive protests if passport processing was 299 days.

Think about it. Stop defending the inept government.

 

[steaky]

I really can't disagree more. My spouse can't fly out of Canada and then back without the PR card. So it is required.

You claim the PRTD is an alternative, but the processing time is unknown before leaving and so is the end result of application. It's a ridiculous equivalence and you know it.

The PR card works essentially the same as the passport, and I'm pretty sure there'd be massive protests if passport processing was 299 days.

Think about it. Stop defending the inept government.

Why can't your spouse fly out of Canada without PR card? It is not required to exit Canada. As for returning at a land border, one can show their landing papers.

 

[dpenabill]

I really can't disagree more. My spouse can't fly out of Canada and then back without the PR card. So it is required.

You claim the PRTD is an alternative, but the processing time is unknown before leaving and so is the end result of application. It's a ridiculous equivalence and you know it.

The PR card works essentially the same as the passport, and I'm pretty sure there'd be massive protests if passport processing was 299 days.

Think about it. Stop defending the inept government.

I am a Canadian citizen. But, as an immigrant, most of my family is abroad. Including my daughter and granddaughter. I cannot travel to visit them now either. Not because I do not have proper travel documents; I have the proper documents. But because there is a real crisis and travel is highly restricted.

I might say "Think about it." But I am not here telling anyone what to do. (But sure, being old and in the way, I tend to bristle a bit when someone thinks they are entitled to tell me what to do when they aren't.)

I make no effort to defend the government. My effort is to explain what is happening as best I can discern. I agree with some criticisms. I disagree with the gratuitous whining. But mostly I try to focus on what is happening and illuminate as best we can where things are headed.

To be clear, a passport is a "travel document." In contrast, the PR card is merely a status card. There is no comparison, despite many who fail to grasp the differences.

In the meantime access to obtaining a PR Travel Document is difficult for the same reason that access to a new PR card is difficult.

Sure, but for the impact of the Covid-19 crisis, using a PR TD to travel back to Canada can be very inconvenient for SOME (for most, it really is not), but outside the bubble of narcissism, personal convenience no where near approaches what is "essential" or "necessary."

Note, too, that unlike Canadian citizens, the Canadian Charter of Rights does not protect a PR's international mobility. This is just how it is. Some may believe it should be otherwise. But it is what it is. Processing PR cards is not an essential priority UNLESS the PR petitions for urgent processing based on legitimate grounds (but unfortunately, these applications appear to be bogged down by scores of requests by those whose "urgent" need is, so to say, not especially urgent).

The thing that I do not understand is why to dismiss our concerns and problems as whining.

There is no clarity as to the timeframe for a PR Travel Document either. So there is a big unknown, or time delay in get the only two forms of documents that would allow you back into the country.

These are related. Not all complaints are created equal. Not all "urgent" needs are created equal.

I did not and do not dismiss all the concerns.

Canada is currently restricting the vast majority of international travel . . . with exceptions for travel that is essential and non-discretionary.

We have family on the other side of town who we were isolated from for months (yeah, we know many were not following the lockdown guidelines . . . pox to them . . . we have). With some issues. And as an immigrant, most of my family is abroad, and I continue to be isolated from them . . . even the ones who are not all that far away but on the U.S. side of the border.

Leading to . . .

Everybody has his/her issues during this crisis.

And lots and lots and lots of issues. Some big ones. Some really big ones. Like life and death itself.

Business people I know are not at all likely to recover from this. Others are out of work and struggling badly due to this. People I know who suffer from certain disadvantages are suffering badly from this. It is an unmitigated disaster. A crisis. And oh yeah, many thousands have DIED, and many more will die.

The government is scrambling to meet the most pressing needs. I do not say this to defend them. I say this to observe the obvious: it's a mess out there, still getting messier by the day. Anyone expecting a reallocation of government resources to PR card application processing anytime soon is not dealing with the reality. And those demanding action soon, at the expense of other government services, deserve as much criticism as anyone.