Ray of Hope - 149th Draw - CEC

[seadrag0n]

I'll tell you why. Because different people in different situations are equally beneficial to Canada in different ways. Yes, a student who has been in Canada for a few years already is a good prospect, because they've integrated (hopefully) a bit, and have a network (ideally). Those aren't guaranteed though. You could keep to your group of Chinese/Indian/Mexican friends and just not explore anything if you wanted to.

In the same way, an FSW candidate is also a good prospect, because while they may not have been living in Canada up to this point, they might have many more years of actual practical work experience over that student. They may also have a higher language score, already possess a Master's or PhD from overseas, and may already have a relative living in Canada. Or they work in a very in-demand NOC category overseas.

That's exactly why there is a scoring system for EE. Since this whole system was launched in 2015, if candidates inside Canada were better prospects, they would've just been given CRSs of like 1,000 and FSWs would be given, say, 200. But no, instead it's a combination of factors that gives you your CRS, and you have to work on all of those factors to get past a certain point to be drawn. Whether you're CEC, PNP, FSW, FST... whatever. We're all in the same boat.

It's not as easy as saying PGWPs should be the only ones invited because they're already there. This old debate of who is a better candidate is so tired now. And I guarantee you Mendocino and the IRCC aren't busy shutting down EE. In fact, they're actively proving the opposite.

From what I gather from the discussion in this thread, according to CEC candidates foreign work experience and foreign education is worthless compared to Canadian education and Canadian work experience in Canada and even if a FSW candidate lands in Canada, they won't be able the integrate or find jobs because they have never lived in Canada. Wonder what the FSW candidates who were getting PR visas since the last 5 years are doing there now.

 

[Pyruvate1]

From what I gather from the discussion in this thread, according to CEC candidates foreign work experience and foreign education is worthless compared to Canadian education and Canadian work experience in Canada and even if a FSW candidate lands in Canada, they won't be able the integrate or find jobs because they have never lived in Canada. Wonder what the FSW candidates who were getting PR visas since the last 5 years are doing there now.

And I have a fsw friend that got a job even before landing in 2019....funny guys

 

[seadrag0n]

And I have a fsw friend that got a job even before landing in 2019....funny guys

This is their argument for FSW's not receiving invites right now and you better believe it lol. Even three of my friends landed with jobs, one in March this year.

 

[ZAtoCD]

This is their argument for FSW's not receiving invites right now and you better believe it lol. Even three of my friends landed with jobs, one in March this year.

Yeah, I don't get how they've come to the conclusion that the reason CECs are being chosen over FSWs is because IRCC has concluded suddenly that CECs are more valuable to Canada. The pandemic is the reason for all these changes, not some change in values. They have to go with what's easiest.

Anyway, I'm happy for anyone getting ITAs right now, and I really hope that us FSWs get a chance in the next few draws. Just so our applications can begin the lengthy processing.

 

[muspal]

I get that everyone is stressed, but let's not make this into a contest between two types of immigrants. This pandemic situation has obviously affected the process. Let's hope it settle down in a few months with minimal impact to the economy. In the end, Canadian authorities first and only loyalty is to Canada and Canadians. We should not forget that and just hope for the best.

 

[Rushbury1986]

Hello everyone,

i hope you are all well. i was just wondering with the current state of things what to do for the best...I am currently sat with 459 points (with my spouse) FSW until the 26th of this month when I lose another 5 points due to age. However, would it be best for me to apply as a single person which would boost my score back up to 459? Can this be done and apply for my spouse to come over after I have PR? I am unsure if this can be done or not?

Thanks in advance

 

[seadrag0n]

Statistics show that CEC earn way more than FSW. So obviously already having a job in Canada is a bigger advantage than you think.

In 2015:

CEC: $71,000
FSW: $62,000

PNP: $53,000

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=4310005001

As to foreign work experience being worthless, you'd think those candidates would be able to find job with LMIA or get a company transfer to Canada if their work experience were worth as much as they think. Don't you think IRCC would offer more points to more work experience if they thought it were worth more instead of giving extra points for Canadian degrees?

In the end I don't think IRCC cares as much about "worth" as long as they can fill their quota.

Why are they inviting low scoring candidates now and going against their own "CRS ranking criteria" when there are already very high scoring candidates in the pool? Can't they give more points to these CEC candidates and do general draws? If getting LMIA was as easy as for you type it like that, then we would have seen more high ranking CEC candidates in the pool and the cut off wouldn't have dropped like it is dropping now. And those figures you have mentioned are just generalized statistics and mean nothing. The people I know who have landed in Canada with a job are earning upwards of 110K CAD (80K USD) which is what their employers are paying to their H1B workers in the US, not all professions/jobs are paid the same.

Also, people here state the obvious things like "Canada doesn't owe anyone", "IRCC doesn't care" blah blah like these are some divine revelations only they have discovered lol.

 

[Pyruvate1]

Why are they inviting low scoring candidates now and going against their own "CRS ranking criteria" when there are already very high scoring candidates in the pool? Can't they give more points to these CEC candidates and do general draws? If getting LMIA was as easy as for you type it like that, then we would have seen more high ranking CEC candidates in the pool and the cut off wouldn't have dropped like it is dropping now. And those figures you have mentioned are just generalized statistics and mean nothing. The people I know who have landed in Canada with a job are earning upwards of 110K CAD (80K USD) which is what their employers are paying to their H1B workers in the US, not all professions/jobs are paid the same.

Also, people here state the obvious things like "Canada doesn't owe anyone", "IRCC doesn't care" blah blah like these are some divine revelations only they have discovered lol.

The guy obviously does not know what to type. The first job my friend got was in excess of 80k cad, fsw for that matter.

 

[cansha]

I really feel sorry for u. Similar story here, only difference is I went to Canada for study and work.

I got OINP invitation when I worked for 10 months, but my agent told me I can't apply that cause I have to work for at least one year. Then I found the cutoff scores went up by 30 points then several months before. the 460-470s is very hard for a non-native speaker with college degree to reach while my friends got the ITA simply because they began to work 2 or 3 months ealier.

I was disappointed like u, maybe more than u, cause I spent more than 50k CAD to study and live in Canada compared to your cost and have to go back
home when work permit expires. Here, some international students work for free or even pay the employer a big amount of money to get the work experience (like LIMA which is like 100k CAD per one) ASAP, cause you don't have much time to waste and never know how the immigration trend goes. My friend cursed so many times about how many Indians were in the IELTS test room whose mother tongue is English and he did't stand a chance to compete with those guys. I have nothing to do but keep working, hoping they do a OINP draw but then they only do OINP for IT guys. Just like your guys, I felt so angry for everything about IRCC. Who knows I got the ITA because of the COVID-19 in this draw?

And news said they are considering lower the invitation number next year or something? No one knows the future. But check my post before, I said there is no FSW because the COVID-19, only when the situation is getting better will all programs be re-opened. Take a look of the new cases number, u will know it will last at least several months. I think that's simple logic but so many people saying I got a feeling next week all program or FSW only blablabla...

There is no real fairness in the world since u were born.If you take the risk to try make your life maybe little bit better by changing the residence place and it's not 100% guaranteed, u have to be prepared that all the time, money and efforts u have put in could only be a dump in the hole like u said. I'm prepared before I took on the plane to Canada. No one knows what happens next, so your choice, in a sense, is kind of a bet. U on the table, if u really want to win, accept the rules and play the game. Questioning the rules means democracy maybe, but I have little faith in it because I'm only the player.

At last, really feel sorry for this forum, before was a nice and helpful environment. People help each other and do estimate based on numbers. Really impressive and grateful. Look at what happened now, people say I deserve XXX more than XXX or XXX is so unfair. My last post, Maybe after we die , we are really fair.

Candidates pay for LMIA 100K per candidate?? What you’re describing here is immigration fraud.

 

[seadrag0n]

They probably could, but that would mean they would have to restructure EE. Limiting the draws to CEC only is way easier than adding new points and calculating every one's scores again.

Everyone who earns more than $110k could easily get a job offer and the bonus points and wouldn't have to bitch about how unfair IRCC is being at the moment.

You need to check the process of LMIA and how difficult it is to get it. Nobody is bitching about anything, paying is not a problem for employers, getting a work permit for foreign national in Canada is. Because they got PR, it is simply a matter of giving a job offer and main reason is they don't want to lose good performing employees.

 

[jrossi]

From what I gather from the discussion in this thread, according to CEC candidates foreign work experience and foreign education is worthless compared to Canadian education and Canadian work experience in Canada and even if a FSW candidate lands in Canada, they won't be able the integrate or find jobs because they have never lived in Canada. Wonder what the FSW candidates who were getting PR visas since the last 5 years are doing there now.

I do have a theory regarding this widespread conception that "without the college and years of Canadian experience you won't get a decent job". I hope my view does not offend anyone, it's merely a technical analysis:

Usually those who opt for doing a college, spending over 30-40k CAD + proof of funds + limitations on working hours, etc are exactly those who simply couldn't immigrate through FSW because they wouldn't achieve the necessary levels of english/french or didn't have the qualifications necessary to get a competitive CRS score. Many of them even had to go through the Pathway program before actually being eligible to enroll in a college program.
Otherwise: if these people already had 460+ points, why would they spend this amount of money moving here and accepting all of these absurds conditions?

So, this basically explains why these same people complain that when they arrived in Canada they couldn't find a job, they couldn't integrate well with the native Canadians, how limited their budget was due to minimum wage salaries, why they had to remain closed in their own guetos, and so on.
Because:
1 - They (probably) didn't have a good level of english proficiency (if they had, they would be applying directly through FSW), therefore, they would face the consequences of that while trying to integrate with Canadians, doing job interviews, networking, etc.
2 - They couldn't work full time (therefore, of course their budget was limited and they had to downgrade their standards of living)
3 - They could not benefit from student grants and other federal financial aids offered to citizens and resident permanents
4 - They (might) face a hard time looking for a stable job, because some employers might not feel confident about hiring someone who has an expiration date on their visas.

My whole point here is: I usually don't see that level of complaints from outland FSW that arrive in Canada, really. Sure, pretty much everyone will need to work at Tim Hortons or Wallmart initially, many will need to support themselves for 6 months, maybe a year, earning minimum wage and sometimes having more than 1 job to be able to work 40 hours a week, etc. But honestly, from all the FSW outlanders that I met in the last year, not a single one of them complains as much as I see some PGWPs applicants complaining. My theory is: the higher your CRS, easier things will be for you once you land. Seems reasonable.

 

[zabrodov]

Discussions about shutting down EE was initiated by many dudes in the 2012 (in this forum) which scared aspirants a lot. IRCC simply were continuing invite FSW despite the blabbering of some dudes
Again another discussion sparked during 2014 where another set of dudes were coming with weird theories about stopping EE once for all. But IRCC to those dudes be like 'hold my beer' and kept inviting dudes even on a larger scale

Was there an upcoming massive economic crisis back in 2012 or 2014? Did Air Canada among others lay off 20,000 employees? Look at the situation in 2020 and 2012/2014 and compare, dude.

 

[seadrag0n]

Was there an upcoming massive economic crisis back in 2012 or 2014? Did Air Canada among others lay off 20,000 employees? Look at the situation in 2020 and 2012/2014 and compare, dude.

They have not stopped giving invites, how about inviting everybody?

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I do have a theory regarding this widespread conception that "without the college and years of Canadian experience you won't get a decent job". I hope my view does not offend anyone, it's merely a technical analysis:

Usually those who opt for doing a college, spending over 30-40k CAD + proof of funds + limitations on working hours, etc are exactly those who simply couldn't immigrate through FSW because they wouldn't achieve the necessary levels of english/french or didn't have the qualifications necessary to get a competitive CRS score. Many of them even had to go through the Pathway program before actually being eligible to enroll in a college program.
Otherwise: if these people already had 460+ points, why would they spend this amount of money moving here and accepting all of these absurds conditions?

So, this basically explains why these same people complain that when they arrived in Canada they couldn't find a job, they couldn't integrate well with the native Canadians, how limited their budget was due to minimum wage salaries, why they had to remain closed in their own guetos, and so on.
Because:
1 - They (probably) didn't have a good level of english proficiency (if they had, they would be applying directly through FSW), therefore, they would face the consequences of that while trying to integrate with Canadians, doing job interviews, networking, etc.
2 - They couldn't work full time (therefore, of course their budget was limited and they had to downgrade their standards of living)
3 - They could not benefit from student grants and other federal financial aids offered to citizens and resident permanents
4 - They (might) face a hard time looking for a stable job, because some employers might not feel confident about hiring someone who has an expiration date on their visas.

My whole point here is: I usually don't see that level of complaints from outland FSW that arrive in Canada, really. Sure, pretty much everyone will need to work at Tim Hortons or Wallmart initially, many will need to support themselves for 6 months, maybe a year, earning minimum wage and sometimes having more than 1 job to be able to work 40 hours a week, etc. But honestly, from all the FSW outlanders that I met in the last year, not a single one of them complains as much as I see some PGWPs applicants complaining. My theory is: the higher your CRS, easier things will be for you once you land. Seems reasonable.

Depends. I have noticed 2 types of students, ones that are genuine and attend top ranked universities and ones that attend easy to get into colleges for Post grad certificates or diplomas. Guess which ones have trouble getting jobs. You don't hear from the former category because they seamlessly integrate

 

[jrossi]

Depends. I have noticed 2 types of students, ones that are genuine and attend top ranked universities and ones that attend easy to get into colleges for Post grad certificates or diplomas. Guess which ones have trouble getting jobs. You don't hear from the former category because they seamlessly integrate

Yeah, I'm talking about college students. Because it's the fastest, easiest way.
Those who enroll in a university program, 4-yr program, are more certainly focused on longterm goals, but, also are those who have WAY more financial funds to support such plan.