Minor Application, applied from US and Place of oath in Canada

[muralie krishna]

I immigrated to Canada with my family in 2004 along with my wife and son born in 2003 and my son is a US citizen. We stayed in Canada till 2009, I applied for citizenship just for me and moved to the US in 2009 after getting Canadian Citizenship. I am assuming both my wife and Son will meet the PR requirements since they are staying with a Canadian Citizen. The question I have is that my son will be 18 next year but would like to get his Canadian citizenship so that he can study in Canada. His PR card has expired and did not stay or visit Canada in the last 10 years.


Under the Canadian Citizenship Application for a minor under subsection 2, I don't think he has to meet the physical presence and should be able to apply for his citizenship. Am i correct? If Approved where in Canada will he be called for Oath?

 

[hawk39]

I am assuming both my wife and Son will meet the PR requirements since they are staying with a Canadian Citizen.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/grant/residence/calculate-physical-presence/calculating-residence-physical-presence-certain-family-members-canadian-citizen-permanent-resident-living-abroad.html

• If I'm reading this correctly, unless you're employed with the Canadian or a provincial government as a Crown servant, your wife and son can't use the time they've spent living in the US with you ever since you became a citizen and do not meet the PR requirements for applying for citizenship. They would need to re-establish their permanent residency by moving back to Canada and live there to fulfill the residency obligation before applying for citizenship.

Under the Canadian Citizenship Application for a minor under subsection 2, I don't think he has to meet the physical presence and should be able to apply for his citizenship.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/grant/minors.html

• While applying for citizenship under 5.2 means the minor applicant can apply without needing to fulfill the residency obligation, the applicant still needs to have a valid PR status and have no unfulfilling conditions related to that status; having an expired PR might be considered an invalid status and/or unfulfilled condition.

Can I ask why your wife and son did not apply for Canadian citizenship with you in 2009?

 

[muralie krishna]

Thanks for your reply but I think you are wrong. If they accompany a Canadian Citizen (which I am) they will meet PR Requirements (as per the below link) and don't have to stay in Canada. I am applying only for my son and not for my wife.
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

My son will be in the first col in the below link and does not have to meet the physical presence need. (Have been physically present in Canada
3 out of the last 5 years - No)
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/minors.html

My wife did not want to give up her or my son's Current citizenship and hence we did not apply for them along with my application.

Usually, they will schedule the oath at an office near to the residence but since we are in US wanted to know where the Oath will be held.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Thanks for your reply but I think you are wrong. If they accompany a Canadian Citizen (which I am) they will meet PR Requirements (as per the below link) and don't have to stay in Canada. I am applying only for my son and not for my wife.
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

My son will be in the first col in the below link and does not have to meet the physical presence need. (Have been physically present in Canada
3 out of the last 5 years - No)
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/minors.html

My wife did not want to give up her or my son's Current citizenship and hence we did not apply for them along with my application.

Usually, they will schedule the oath at an office near to the residence but since we are in US wanted to know where the Oath will be held.

1. Closest to where you son would be residing in Canada. He can't apply for citizenship (or you on his behalf) unless he is in Canada.

 

[muralie krishna]

Thanks for your reply.

Can I know where does it state that I/my son (minor) have to reside in Canada to apply for Citizenship? I did not see that as a requirement on any of the apps or docs on the CIC website.

 

[harirajmohan]

1. Closest to where you son would be residing in Canada. He can't apply for citizenship (or you on his behalf) unless he is in Canada.

There is no requirement for physical stay for kids. Just that they should be in PR status as usual like any adult.

Thanks for your reply.

Can I know where does it state that I/my son (minor) have to reside in Canada to apply for Citizenship? I did not see that as a requirement on any of the apps or docs on the CIC website.

Correct. No physical presence mandatory for kids.
Even my neighbor would be applying for his daughter's citizenship after her schooling finished from India. So few are planning to apply later for sure.

If Approved where in Canada will he be called for Oath?

Yes its mandatory for kids aged 14+.
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1455&top=5

 

[muralie krishna]

Thanks, Hari for your reply but the answer I am looking for is the place of oath since minor above 14 should take the oath. Hence not sure where it will be held and how it will be decided.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Thanks, Hari for your reply but the answer I am looking for is the place of oath since minor above 14 should take the oath. Hence not sure where it will be held and how it will be decided.

1. I think that you find that the Citizenship application has to be submitted in Canada with a Canadian mailing address.

 

[muralie krishna]

Thanks, PMM. It is nowhere stated that the citizenship application has to be submitted within Canada for a minor or physical presence is required for Minor as well. So if you know the source of this truth please share or don't keep repeating the same info again and again.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Thanks, PMM. It is nowhere stated that the citizenship application has to be submitted within Canada for a minor or physical presence is required for Minor as well. So if you know the source of this truth please share or don't keep repeating the same info again and again.

1) Question 7 on the application form. It reads 'Home Address (Residence inside Canada)'. If you do not have a residence inside Canada, you cannot enter an address there. One more thing is there is no 'Country' field for question 7 (both home and residential) on the application . Country is, hence, assumed to be Canada.

The citizenship application form for minors contains the country field.

2) Looking at the operational bulletin for citizenship application, I see this :

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/admininistration/general-file-processing/accepting-applications.html

Applications submitted from outside Canada
Canadian citizens living outside Canada and the United States can submit applications for proof, search and renunciation to the CPC-S through the consular mission abroad. Applications are checked upfront for completeness, and when the consular mission receives an incomplete application in person or by mail (e.g., without the requisite fee and/or without the required documents), the mission will

• not allocate the paid fees to the processing of the application;
• not record basic data in the mission's system;
• return the entire application package to the applicant with a notice letter indicating what information or documents is missing in their application. The applicant will be offered two options:
  • to resubmit the application with the missing information, documents or fees, or
  • to request the refund of fees paid if the applicant no longer wishes to submit their application.

Once the mission determines that the application is complete, it is forwarded to the CPC-S by diplomatic bag for decision.

Note that it is NOT explicitly mentioned that the citizenship grant application can be made from outside Canada.

3) In this link, there is no mention of applying for citizenship from outside Canada. It says you can leave Canada after you apply for citizenship, suggesting that you would have to be in Canada when you submit the application.

While not explicitly mentioned anywhere that you cannot submit a citizenship application from outside Canada, there is nothing (at least from what I have searched) to suggest you can. Going by the details above, I would suggest taking professional help before filing your application.

On a side-note, submitting a citizenship application without having a single tie to Canada (other than one parent that is a Canadian citizen who resided in Canada long time ago) would beg for non-routine processing. What this means is it is likely that you'll get a residency questionnaire (RQ) and this residency questionnaire would ask you to key in the details of physical presence / your activities in Canada.

I'm not sure how this will work out for you but this case is rather intriguing. If possible, please keep us posted on what happens - would be useful when someone else is in this situation.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

I did not have any issue to enter my residence address in the USA and there is a country field in the application. Hope you are talking about the form in the link below.
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/pdf/kits/citizen/cit0003e-2.pdf

Also, the operational bulletin was talking about applicants outside of Canada and the USA and not about applicants in the US.

That is not what I wanted to highlight there. I wanted to highlight the fact that the "proof, search and renunciation" are the only type of applications explicitly mentioned. The type of application that your son would need is called 'Grant of citizenship'. There is no explicit mention about that.

This will the case (no key ties to Canada) even if I am applying for proof of citizenship for my daughter born after me getting Canadian Citizenship.

That's a completely different story. If you apply for proof of citizenship for your daughter who was born outside Canada AFTER you became a citizen, that is citizenship by descent and neither the procedure nor the requirements are the same as naturalization. Your daughter's citizenship is solely based on the fact that she was born to a Canadian parent. Your son's case is different - he was not born when you were a Canadian citizen and moved to Canada as an immigrant. He has to be naturalized like any other immigrant and that is why this process asks for 'physical presence'. But again, I would strongly suggest taking professional assistance, just to be sure.

Sure i will keep the group posted once the application is processed for the benefits of others.

Thank you

"Applications submitted from outside Canada
Canadian citizens living outside Canada and the United States can submit applications "


7 A
E-mail address (if applicable) Confirm email address
* if you (parent/guardian) provide us with your email address, we may correspond through email about the minor’s application
B
Home address Postal Code Country or Territory
C Telephone no.(s) Home Work Ext. Cell
D
Mailing address (if different from home address)

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

My son will be in the first col in the below link and does not have to meet the physical presence need. (Have been physically present in Canada
3 out of the last 5 years - No)
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/minors.html

Yup.