Short of Residency Obligation
- Thread starter shehan2014
- Start date
where does it say so ? and when processing the spouse visa do they look at how many days i have stayed in Canada ?
It says you are are expected to meet an RO as a PR. You haven’t met the major requirement as a PR so you can’t access some of the privileges you get as a PR who is in compliance. Part of the sponsorship process is to determine if you are eligible to sponsor. Without meeting RO you are not meeting your requirements as a PR.
Is there a system at the Airport to check how many days the PR holders has stayed in/out of Canada ? if there is no system as such in place which detects the no of days how can a person short of obligation be detected at the Airport ? I have 1 year and 3 months until my PR card expires... so when i enter Canada how would the official at border protection know whether i have stayed in Canada for long or not ?
If you are flying into Canada, in the customs declaration you must report how long you have been outside Canada. And of course if they otherwise ask, which is common, and quite likely for a PR returning to Canada after a long absence, the traveler is required to truthfully respond.
If you are asking what are the odds of getting caught if a PR is willing to take the chance of making misrepresentations in order to obtain entry into Canada, generally that's a rather bad gamble.
For a glimpse of what CBSA captures and maintains in Personal Information Banks (PIBs) specifically related to traveler Entry / Exit processing, see https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/infosource-eng.html#ppu_1202 (if this does not link directly to the "Entry / Exit traveller processing PIB, do a find on the page for "Exit traveller processing")
At that same page, a long list of the many records and PIBs maintained just by CBSA, also see the information described for the Traveller Declaration Cards -- Personal Information Bank (do page find for "Traveller Declaration Cards") and for the class of records which describes records relating to the Interdepartmental and Intergovernmental Relations Program, which describes written information sharing collaborative agreements between CBSA and federal departments, allowing for sharing (consistent with shared access protocols) of records including Travellers Declaration Cards and records or reports from the Travellers Entry Processing System (TEPS), the Customs Commercial System (CCS), and the Travellers National Database System (TRANDS), among others.
Other PIBs and records of interest may include any of those connected to the I.C.E.S. system (Integrated Customs Enforcement System), most of which are not directly related to enforcement of PR obligations but which include records that can facilitate cross-checking and triangulating information about individuals.
It appears that records gathered from traveller's declaration cards are retained for seven years . . . thus, even if a PR appears to initially get away with making a misrepresentation upon arrival, it could be discovered later (as in accessed in the course of investigative inquiries), such as when processing a PR card application or even a citizenship application.
Anyone who follows the IAD decisions about PRs will readily recognize that the number of PR inadmissibility cases based on misrepresentation has increased a lot in the last few years, with an increasing number specifically about misrepresentations made in PoE examinations.
Note: the description of PIBs and related records at the CBSA webpage linked above is a limited slice of information regarding record gathering, maintenance, and access, provided to the public to facilitate making access to information requests. Thus this information may barely scratch the surface of the tools and databases CBSA employs to cross-check and verify a traveler's disclosures in PoE transactions.
Also note, for example, some airport kiosks these days appear to be equipped with elaborate monitoring devices, literally analyzing the traveler's eye movements and facial features, and will even measure toe movements, as well as analyzing voice characteristics, apparently using sophisticated algorithms to screen and identify travelers to be more thoroughly examined.
Overall: There is very little comparison between how things go these days to the enforcement means and methods employed just ten years ago. Past tales of leniency bear little resemblance to today's border controls. Sure, many are still getting away with this and that, or appear to be getting away with it for now, but the tide shifted dramatically following 9/11/2001 and right up to today the trend continues to steadily surge in the direction of increased border controls . . . and the current Covid-19 threat is likely to be one more event which will motivate even more scrutiny and tracking, ostensibly for health reasons but contributing to the collection and use of information for multiple purposes.
Not much opportunity for flying-under-the-radar these days. One might say they've got your number.
Hello Everyone
Me & my wife became a PR IN Jan 2018.Spent 15 days & came back on 10th Feb 2018. We had our Baby in March 2019.I Was supposed to go back in Sep 2020 before Covid 19 happened to the world & now all flights are grounded .Except lockdown & social distancing nothing can really counter this life threatening virus .I was supposed to sponsor my kid after reaching Canada .If I dont go back by Jan 2021 my RO will be breached .I live with my family parents & younger brother who is a banker . My problem since we have a baby to look after & my parents who are aging I can't leave them behind & go back to Canada in these testing times .Even if India & Canada both open their skies for travel by Sep 2020 & things improve only marginally on ground it would really be tough to leave them in such circumstances .No one would leave their loved behind in such times .So my question is can I seek extension for my RO period .I have never heard anyone seeking such things in advance .People always appeal after they can no longer complete RO .If I send an email to IRCC stating that the spread of COVID is forcing me to delay my visit, will they consider it at all in advance .Isn't the pandemic due to which almost everyone's life has been impacted itself a humane & compassionate ground in my case .These are after all extra ordinary times where no one is sure about next day .Should I put them an email in advance or should I wait .I dont want to loose on critical 6-7 months I have between now & Oct 2020 .God forbids if events in my country take ugly turn by Oct 2020 who knows our skies will be closed for how much time.Even the Canadian Govt Fears a second wave after Summer .So corona is right now like a two edged sword for me .I cannot leave my family behind .At the same time I cannot afford to loose my RO .Only if Covid 19 allows the world time to recuperate can i make a decision .
I feel Instead of appealing later on at least informing IRCC well in advance about my intent to come to Canada in Oct 2020 & inabilty to do so due to Covid 19 will only strengthen my case if at all I fail to meet RO & the case goes in to appeal .My second concern is about my wifes RO .Her RO will definitey be breached even if I land in Oct 2020.Because till my Son get sponsorhip She cannot come to Canada .Sponsorship takes 6-9 months which means her RO will be breached.This when things are all okay by Oct 2020 .So how to go about that also .
Any suggestions will be highly appreciated .
Regards
Me & my wife became a PR IN Jan 2018.Spent 15 days & came back on 10th Feb 2018. We had our Baby in March 2019.I Was supposed to go back in Sep 2020 before Covid 19 happened to the world & now all flights are grounded .Except lockdown & social distancing nothing can really counter this life threatening virus .I was supposed to sponsor my kid after reaching Canada .If I dont go back by Jan 2021 my RO will be breached .I live with my family parents & younger brother who is a banker . My problem since we have a baby to look after & my parents who are aging I can't leave them behind & go back to Canada in these testing times .Even if India & Canada both open their skies for travel by Sep 2020 & things improve only marginally on ground it would really be tough to leave them in such circumstances .No one would leave their loved behind in such times .So my question is can I seek extension for my RO period .I have never heard anyone seeking such things in advance .People always appeal after they can no longer complete RO .If I send an email to IRCC stating that the spread of COVID is forcing me to delay my visit, will they consider it at all in advance .Isn't the pandemic due to which almost everyone's life has been impacted itself a humane & compassionate ground in my case .These are after all extra ordinary times where no one is sure about next day .Should I put them an email in advance or should I wait .I dont want to loose on critical 6-7 months I have between now & Oct 2020 .God forbids if events in my country take ugly turn by Oct 2020 who knows our skies will be closed for how much time.Even the Canadian Govt Fears a second wave after Summer .So corona is right now like a two edged sword for me .I cannot leave my family behind .At the same time I cannot afford to loose my RO .Only if Covid 19 allows the world time to recuperate can i make a decision .
I feel Instead of appealing later on at least informing IRCC well in advance about my intent to come to Canada in Oct 2020 & inabilty to do so due to Covid 19 will only strengthen my case if at all I fail to meet RO & the case goes in to appeal .My second concern is about my wifes RO .Her RO will definitey be breached even if I land in Oct 2020.Because till my Son get sponsorhip She cannot come to Canada .Sponsorship takes 6-9 months which means her RO will be breached.This when things are all okay by Oct 2020 .So how to go about that also .
Any suggestions will be highly appreciated .
Regards
No, you can't ask for permission ahead of time to violate the RO. Doing so will not in any way "strengthen your case". Having a child is not H&C grounds. Given your estimated age and the fact that you have a younger brother, your parents are not elderly, nor are they alone, so again, not H&C.
As for any relaxation in the rules for COVID-19, no one knows what will happen at this point.
Make no mistake, if keeping Canadian PR status is a high priority for you, the best approach, the safest approach, is for you to get to Canada in time to avoid a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. Yes, the situation this year is likely to be a significant H&C factor which could bolster your chances of keeping PR status even if you breach the RO. But that will still be a gamble. I will address this more below.
The only way to avoid gambling your status is to get here in time to avoid being in breach.
And there are many reasons for doing so. Not the least of which is being eligible to sponsor your child. If you arrive too late to be in compliance with the RO, even if you are waived into Canada without being reported, the safe approach then will be to stay here and WAIT TWO YEARS to sponsor the child. If you make the application sooner than that, you risk triggering a RO examination and being deemed inadmissible and issued a Removal Order. Yes, if your examination at the PoE, upon arrival, leads to a formal examination resulting in a favourable H&C decision allowing you to keep PR status, you would be OK to make the sponsorship application. Or, if you were waived into Canada without being reported, you could gamble again, make the sponsorship application and be prepared to make your H&C case if that triggers a formal RO examination.
But the safe approach is to get here before you have been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since the date of your landing.
And then there is the situation with your spouse. If you get to Canada in time to avoid being in breach of the RO, and you stay, there is a much better chance that she will be allowed to enter Canada without being reported when it is time for her to come (she will have a positive H&C factor you do not have: a strong tie to Canada, given a spouse settled and living in Canada). But even if she is reported, her appeal case will be fairly strong so long as you and her are settled in Canada permanently. And if even that fails, you would be in a position to sponsor her again anyway. And it could be an inland sponsorship so it is not as if she would have to leave Canada.
So, if you delay coming to Canada in time to stay in compliance with the RO, you are RISKING a lot. If you get here on time, you would be dramatically reducing collateral risks as well as the risk of losing your own PR status.
There is no procedure for seeking relief from the PR Residency Obligation apart from an examination as to the PR's compliance, and even then only if and when the PR has failed to comply with the RO.
That said, Canadian officials cannot determine a PR is inadmissible due to a breach of the PR RO without considering, first, whether there are H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep status despite failing to comply with the RO.
So you do not need to wait until making an "appeal" to present your H&C case.
But you do need to wait until there is a residency determination. Moreover, a residency determination MUST be based on the facts as of the date of that examination. This includes calculating days IN Canada, and for a PR short of the fifth year anniversary of landing, also calculating days left on the calendar until that fifth year anniversary date.
If the PR is in breach, one of the biggest, if not the biggest H&C factor, is also the number of days the PR has been IN Canada, which again is calculated in reference to the date of the examination. But likewise, the additional facts and circumstances which are taken into consideration for H&C purposes must be evaluated based on what those facts are as of the date of the examination.
Thus there is no way to evaluate H&C reasons pursuant to an anticipatory breach of the RO. H&C relief for a RO breach cannot be decided hypothetically. It must be based on specific facts as of a date certain.
Bottom-line is, again, one of the BIGGEST factors in determining whether H&C relief should be allowed is based on the date the PR actually returns to Canada. The SOONER the PR gets to Canada, the BETTER. So there can be no assessment of the H&C case before the date the PR actually comes to Canada.
For emphasis: regardless the reasons why the PR failed to get to Canada sooner, what matters most is how soon the PR does get to Canada (or, for a PR applying for a PR Travel Document, when the PR makes that application). (There are exceptions, not applicable here and not worth the distraction.)
AND YES, this means for any PR who stays abroad so long as to fail to comply with the Residency Obligation, the PR must in effect gamble on being allowed H&C relief upon arrival at a PoE in Canada. And if not allowed such relief at the PoE, make an appeal to the IRB IAD.
The PR gets two bites of the apple. Two separate opportunities to present and make the H&C case. First at the PoE. And if not successful there, then in an appeal.
BUT no matter how strong the H&C case might be, the BEST approach (if possible) is to get to Canada BEFORE there is a breach of the RO.
And as noted above, there are many reasons for doing so in your particular situation.
Observations will continue in next post . . .
EVALUATING STRENGTH OF THE H&C CASE:
H&C cases are always a GAMBLE. The best H&C case (with very narrow exceptions) is still a GAMBLE.
Many in this forum will more or less give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down evaluation of reported H&C reasons. Unless these are expressed in generalized rather than a definitive form, to my view these assessments are not informative, not much helpful, and not to be trusted.
That said, they typically tend to point in the direction of the most likely outcome. But the outcome in H&C cases is not determined by statistical probability. It depends on the particular facts and circumstances in the individual case. So the typical concurrence between such pronouncements and outcomes is merely incidental, not about how things really work.
Note, for example, in contrast, YES, of course, the circumstances attendant staying abroad longer in your situation not only will be considered in evaluating your H&C reasons, they MUST be considered.
It is simply wrong to categorically dismiss the fact of having a child abroad from H&C consideration. Likewise WRONG to say the situation with your parents is "not H&C." That is NOT how the H&C assessment works in RO cases. No matter how persistently many in this forum postulate otherwise. Again, even though coincidentally such observations tend to point in the direction of the more common outcome.
In particular, how it goes depends on many factors, on all the relevant factors, and YES, the child is relevant, the situation with your parents is relevant, and the fact that you chose to not actually come to Canada to live for TWO years after landing is relevant, and the fact that so far you have NOT established strong ties IN Canada is a relevant factor . . . among many other factors . . . with, again, one of the biggest, if not the biggest factor, being how long it takes for you to actually get to Canada to stay.
Any assertion the outcome will definitely go one way or another is untrustworthy.
That said, at the risk of being annoyingly redundant: make no mistake, even the best H&C case tends to be tricky, and almost all (with a narrow range of exceptions) are difficult to make successfully UNLESS the extent of the breach is relatively small.
Note the qualifier in this last observation: *relatively* small. That means relative to other factors. Many other factors. There is no fixed number. Several months in breach may be *relatively* small for one PR given this and that situation, but the same amount of time in breach, or even less, might be considered a rather substantial, big breach in other circumstances. DEPENDS. Lots and lots of It-Depends.
Except there is ONE fixed guideline, and that is the RO itself, 730 days IN Canada within the relevant five years. It is generally considered to be a rather generous and flexible requirement. Meet that, no RO issues. Fail to meet that, as a MATTER of LAW the PR is in breach of the RO.
And if as a matter of law the PR is in breach, keeping PR status depends on whether examining officials determine there are sufficient H&C reasons to allow the PR to keep status DESPITE the BREACH. In a sense, it comes down to whether the PR *deserves* the opportunity to keep PR status.
What factors into the H&C calculation, into whether the PR *deserves* to keep status, is a range about as big and broad as things can get. And there are many factors which can go both ways. Sometimes this or that is a positive factor, but in other circumstances that same thing is a negative factor. Did I mention there are a lot of It-Depends elements?
For example, if a PR arrives in Canada just ten days in breach of the RO, and the PR is still within the first five years of the date of landing, odds are good, maybe very good, the PR will not have to explain (if the PR even has to explain at all) much beyond "had plans to come last year, but ran into delays," and if that is not sufficient, presenting a more complete picture of the difficulties the PR had coming to Canada sooner (such as yours, given the child's birth and young age, circumstances with your parents, and such), the odds should weigh heavily in favour of being waived into Canada without a formal residency determination let alone having to argue these H&C reasons to a Minister's Delegate. Let alone being issued a negative decision and having to appeal.
But, IN CONTRAST, if a PR arrives many months in breach of the RO, and especially a year plus in breach, that changes the calculus dramatically.
Generally, the longer it takes for the PR to get to Canada, after the PR is in breach of the RO, the less chance the PR's various reasons for not coming sooner will persuade authorities to waive the breach and allow the PR to keep PR status. Your reasons, for example, including your child and the situation with your parents, will be considered. Must be considered. (Again, it is wrong to categorically state any such reasons are "not H&C.") But whether or not they will be sufficient to tip the scales toward allowing you to keep PR status, toward a decision you deserve to keep PR status, VARIES, and DEPENDS.
Leading to some observations about . . .
YOUR SITUATION IN PARTICULAR:
There are so many variables I am highly reluctant (but for a narrow range of situations in which the outcome might be more readily forecast) to address any particular situation. And I tend to distrust anyone else's evaluation that concludes what the outcome will be. This is especially so for PRs still within the first five years of the day they landed.
The variability is somewhat illustrated by how things might be different for your spouse. If, for example, you do make it to Canada in time to avoid a breach of the RO, or in time to be waived into Canada without being reported despite being in breach of the RO, or in time to be overtly allowed to keep PR status for H&C reasons despite PoE officials determining that you have, in law, breached the RO, and you are then settled more or less permanently in Canada, there is a decent chance that PoE officials will be even more lenient with your spouse even though she arrives after a much bigger breach. She will have a big factor it appears you do not have, a huge tie to Canada: a spouse who is a PR settled and living in Canada.
In other words, even though the amount of the breach is one of the biggest factors, a shorter breach of the RO can push things more negatively for a PR with no more than minimal ties in Canada compared to how a longer breach might for another PR whose spouse has come to Canada and established permanent in-fact (not just status) residence in Canada.
IMPACT of the Covid-19 Global Pandemic and Related Travel Restrictions:
As already noted, any and all explanations for why a PR delayed coming to Canada will be, MUST BE, considered. So, sure, to the extent that events this year are relevant factors in the particular PR's situation, the impact of the Covid-19 global pandemic and related travel restrictions on the particular PR will be taken into consideration in any H&C assessment for a breach of the RO. Thus, for those PRs currently stuck abroad (which should not be confused with those who are living abroad), to the extent they are in breach of the RO due to delays in traveling back to Canada, one can indeed anticipate some relaxation in terms of the OUTCOME . . . but this would not really be a policy or practice regarding Covid-19 as such, but merely an application of the same principles that govern H&C cases for PR RO breaches generally.
But any PRs expecting a get-out-jail-free card, so to say, because of this year's global crisis and resulting travel restrictions, are likely to be disappointed.
As most here will reiterate, where this situation is going, what impact the pandemic will have, is yet to be determined, so it is impossible to forecast the impact it will have on immigration related matters, such as the enforcement of the PR RO. But there is little or no reason to expect a broad-sweeping relief of the RO due to this year's events.
Among the variables at play is just how long travel is restricted. And the bigger variable is how soon after travel restrictions are largely eliminated the PR makes the trip to Canada. I hesitate to start speculating about possible scenarios, but in the most general terms if travel restrictions no longer preclude coming to Canada by, say, the end of summer, no stretch of the imagination is necessary to forecast this year's events will have far less influence favouring a PR who does not actually make the trip until 2021. Maybe some leeway given other factors, like a constricted economy, but maybe not much additional leeway at all.
And while some additional leeway might be expected for some PRs, how much will almost certainly continue to depend on many individual factors. The PR who was living abroad when the global pandemic situation began to unfold, for example, may run into some skepticism when many months after travel restrictions have been lifted he claims his return to Canada was delayed by the pandemic.
Hi
I must say I could not have got better & clear observation than this .This is like an eye opener .A detailed insight of how things really unfold after one is in breach of his RO .Of course I dont want to run into a situation where my fate is decided by an unknown officer .I would rather ensure I land well in advance .I also hope things start improving sooner than later .I really appreciate your time & efforts for my case.Thanks a lot .Really appreciate it .
am in similar situation - my PR card expired an year ago and I don't meet RO by 500 days. Not in Canada since last 6 years.
I hv US B1travel visa, if I enter Canada via land from US , I understand border officer will report my case to immigration and process of removing my PR begins and I will have 30 days to file for appeal in Canada. I am ok with this. But.
1. Can there be a scenario that border officer do not allow me enter Canada with expired PR card and not meeting RO and out of Canada for last 6 years?
2. Also, I am married now and have kid, do that have to apply for visitor visa in order to travel with me? Or there is something dependant visa for them?