Cannot obtain the required police certificate

[charh-195]

Hi,

I am applying for PR through the Canadian Experience stream. I have received a Bachelor's degree in Canada, obtained a 2 year PGWP and got a very good job, and my employer hired a lawyer to help me with the PR process.

I immigrated to Canada from a country with mandatory military service. I had a military deferral when I moved to Canada. I had been in Canada for about a year when the military deferral expired and I was wanted in my country for military evasion (not desertion, I know the difference).

Now the problem is that the PR application process is very inflexible when it comes to police certificates. I am required to obtain a police certificate from the Embassy of my country here in Canada, however they refused to provide my with any kind of documents (even a letter that they refused to provide anything) because I had an arrest warrant back in the country. I want to stress that I am not attempting to hide the fact that I am wanted for military evasion, all I want is a document that will state that and that will pass the completeness check of the PR process.

Now the officers in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of my country told me that in my circumstances they (the Ministry and the Embassy) are unable to provide such a document and that I should obtain the police certificate from the Police Department of my country. I created an affidavit, and my family members in my country obtained that document from the Police Department.

I used that document as my police certificate (without any explanation) and my application got rejected due to incompleteness. The rejection letter stated that my police certificate is unacceptable.

Now my lawyer suggested that we should try to reapply and on top of the document, submit an affidavit explaining why I am unable to obtain the necessary document. But according to the layer, it is very likely that the application will not pass the completeness check.

I am not sure how to proceed. Has anybody been in a similar situation? I do not put much trust in my lawyer after the first rejection, I don't think she knows how to handle a case like this. Should I consult a different lawyer? Does anybody have any recommendations? Any information is highly appreciated.

 

[scylla]

Hi,

I am applying for PR through the Canadian Experience stream. I have received a Bachelor's degree in Canada, obtained a 2 year PGWP and got a very good job, and my employer hired a lawyer to help me with the PR process.

I immigrated to Canada from a country with mandatory military service. I had a military deferral when I moved to Canada. I had been in Canada for about a year when the military deferral expired and I was wanted in my country for military evasion (not desertion, I know the difference).

Now the problem is that the PR application process is very inflexible when it comes to police certificates. I am required to obtain a police certificate from the Embassy of my country here in Canada, however they refused to provide my with any kind of documents (even a letter that they refused to provide anything) because I had an arrest warrant back in the country. I want to stress that I am not attempting to hide the fact that I am wanted for military evasion, all I want is a document that will state that and that will pass the completeness check of the PR process.

Now the officers in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of my country told me that in my circumstances they (the Ministry and the Embassy) are unable to provide such a document and that I should obtain the police certificate from the Police Department of my country. I created an affidavit, and my family members in my country obtained that document from the Police Department.

I used that document as my police certificate (without any explanation) and my application got rejected due to incompleteness. The rejection letter stated that my police certificate is unacceptable.

Now my lawyer suggested that we should try to reapply and on top of the document, submit an affidavit explaining why I am unable to obtain the necessary document. But according to the layer, it is very likely that the application will not pass the completeness check.

I am not sure how to proceed. Has anybody been in a similar situation? I do not put much trust in my lawyer after the first rejection, I don't think she knows how to handle a case like this. Should I consult a different lawyer? Does anybody have any recommendations? Any information is highly appreciated.

This is an unusual situation. I honestly don't know if IRCC will accept a second application without the required PCC. But you can certainly try. Yes - I would consult with a different lawyer.

My husband's PR application was successfully processed with a missing PCC however the circumstances were extremely different. The PCC was literally impossible to get for anyone regardless of circumstances. He worked in Kuwait for two years just before the war and all police records were destroyed in the war, therefore impossible to get now and no PCC can be issued. We wrote a letter with the application and explained the circumstances and this was easily accepted. But again, very different circumstances than yours.

Good luck. Hope something works out.

EDIT: Just realized you didn't submit a letter / explanation. That was a really really bad call on your lawyer's part. IRCC can't read minds. It's up to the applicant to explain any deficiencies in the application. Get a new lawyer.

 

[sharjeel91]

Hi,

I am applying for PR through the Canadian Experience stream. I have received a Bachelor's degree in Canada, obtained a 2 year PGWP and got a very good job, and my employer hired a lawyer to help me with the PR process.

I immigrated to Canada from a country with mandatory military service. I had a military deferral when I moved to Canada. I had been in Canada for about a year when the military deferral expired and I was wanted in my country for military evasion (not desertion, I know the difference).

Now the problem is that the PR application process is very inflexible when it comes to police certificates. I am required to obtain a police certificate from the Embassy of my country here in Canada, however they refused to provide my with any kind of documents (even a letter that they refused to provide anything) because I had an arrest warrant back in the country. I want to stress that I am not attempting to hide the fact that I am wanted for military evasion, all I want is a document that will state that and that will pass the completeness check of the PR process.

Now the officers in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of my country told me that in my circumstances they (the Ministry and the Embassy) are unable to provide such a document and that I should obtain the police certificate from the Police Department of my country. I created an affidavit, and my family members in my country obtained that document from the Police Department.

I used that document as my police certificate (without any explanation) and my application got rejected due to incompleteness. The rejection letter stated that my police certificate is unacceptable.

Now my lawyer suggested that we should try to reapply and on top of the document, submit an affidavit explaining why I am unable to obtain the necessary document. But according to the layer, it is very likely that the application will not pass the completeness check.

I am not sure how to proceed. Has anybody been in a similar situation? I do not put much trust in my lawyer after the first rejection, I don't think she knows how to handle a case like this. Should I consult a different lawyer? Does anybody have any recommendations? Any information is highly appreciated.

Talk to IRCC, give them a call, explain your situation, this is a very unique situation which require unique solution. Your best bet is to contact IRCC and get help from them. They will definitely help you out. Though you will have to prove all of the above, they wont take your word for it. As you said you are a wanted person in your country, typically that is enough to find you inadmissible to Canada, but if you can prove you are wanted for something like you said there maybe hope. But affidavit and stuff like that wont work. You must contact IRCC and ask them what to do.

 

[charh-195]

Talk to IRCC, give them a call, explain your situation, this is a very unique situation which require unique solution. Your best bet is to contact IRCC and get help from them. They will definitely help you out. Though you will have to prove all of the above, they wont take your word for it. As you said you are a wanted person in your country, typically that is enough to find you inadmissible to Canada, but if you can prove you are wanted for something like you said there maybe hope. But affidavit and stuff like that wont work. You must contact IRCC and ask them what to do.

The lawyer has submitted a web form to ask for instructions, but they simply pointed her to the instructions provided here https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/express-entry/applications-received-on-after-january-1-2016-completeness-check.html

Is there another way to contact IRCC? Are they able to answer questions like this through phone calls?

Regarding criminal inadmissibility - that is a different question. I am trying to pass the completeness check at this point.

 

[scylla]

The lawyer has submitted a web form to ask for instructions, but they simply pointed her to the instructions provided here https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/express-entry/applications-received-on-after-january-1-2016-completeness-check.html

Is there another way to contact IRCC? Are they able to answer questions like this through phone calls?

Regarding criminal inadmissibility - that is a different question. I am trying to pass the completeness check at this point.

The contact needs to be through web form. If the refusal was very recent you could try submitting a reconsideration request on your own via web form.

There is an IRCC call centre however these individuals are just call centre agents and aren't responsible for your application. Calling them won't be of any help.

 

[jes_ON]

Hi,

I am applying for PR through the Canadian Experience stream. I have received a Bachelor's degree in Canada, obtained a 2 year PGWP and got a very good job, and my employer hired a lawyer to help me with the PR process.

I immigrated to Canada from a country with mandatory military service. I had a military deferral when I moved to Canada. I had been in Canada for about a year when the military deferral expired and I was wanted in my country for military evasion (not desertion, I know the difference).

Now the problem is that the PR application process is very inflexible when it comes to police certificates. I am required to obtain a police certificate from the Embassy of my country here in Canada, however they refused to provide my with any kind of documents (even a letter that they refused to provide anything) because I had an arrest warrant back in the country. I want to stress that I am not attempting to hide the fact that I am wanted for military evasion, all I want is a document that will state that and that will pass the completeness check of the PR process.

Now the officers in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of my country told me that in my circumstances they (the Ministry and the Embassy) are unable to provide such a document and that I should obtain the police certificate from the Police Department of my country. I created an affidavit, and my family members in my country obtained that document from the Police Department.

I used that document as my police certificate (without any explanation) and my application got rejected due to incompleteness. The rejection letter stated that my police certificate is unacceptable.

Now my lawyer suggested that we should try to reapply and on top of the document, submit an affidavit explaining why I am unable to obtain the necessary document. But according to the layer, it is very likely that the application will not pass the completeness check.

I am not sure how to proceed. Has anybody been in a similar situation? I do not put much trust in my lawyer after the first rejection, I don't think she knows how to handle a case like this. Should I consult a different lawyer? Does anybody have any recommendations? Any information is highly appreciated.

I was unable to obtain 2 PCCs. Any time you are unable to give IRCC what they ask for, you have to provide a letter of explanation. When you cannot get a PCC, you have to prove you made a good faith effort to obtain the PCC, document those efforts as well as why you were unsuccessful. I agree with scylla - although your situation is a bit different, your lawyer failed you by not doing this. You stated that the Embassy provided you with a letter of refusal - did you submit this to IRCC? If not, that was a big mistake.

I would not bother trying to ask for reconsideration (reconsideration is when IRCC makes a mistake, but in this case the error was yours). Submit a new application with a complete Letter of Explanation and request for exemption of the PCC requirement, documentation of your efforts, and the Letter of refusal. (Certainly overkill on my part, but my documentation was about an inch thick for each PCC I could not obtain - back in the days of the paper application).

Alas, I have no idea how IRCC will view the reason that you cannot obtain the PCC.

 

[scylla]

I was unable to obtain 2 PCCs. Any time you are unable to give IRCC what they ask for, you have to provide a letter of explanation. When you cannot get a PCC, you have to prove you made a good faith effort to obtain the PCC, document those efforts as well as why you were unsuccessful. I agree with scylla - although your situation is a bit different, your lawyer failed you by not doing this. You stated that the Embassy provided you with a letter of refusal - did you submit this to IRCC? If not, that was a big mistake.

I would not bother trying to ask for reconsideration (reconsideration is when IRCC makes a mistake, but in this case the error was yours). Submit a new application with a complete Letter of Explanation and request for exemption of the PCC requirement, documentation of your efforts, and the Letter of refusal. (Certainly overkill on my part, but my documentation was about an inch thick for each PCC I could not obtain - back in the days of the paper application).

Alas, I have no idea how IRCC will view the reason that you cannot obtain the PCC.

100% agree. Lawyer completely messed up here. Massive, massive fail.

jes_ON- We did the same for my husband. We had a huge stack of evidence for the PCC that could not be obtained which we included with the original application including: letter from my husband explaining the circumstances and actions he had taken to try to obtain one, attestation from him that he has a clean record from that period, proof of emails to multiple embassies and consulates requesting assistance in obtaining the PCC, copies of email responses from embassies / consulates, printed evidence from US government websites stating the PCC could not be obtained for that period of time, etc.

 

[charh-195]

I was unable to obtain 2 PCCs. Any time you are unable to give IRCC what they ask for, you have to provide a letter of explanation. When you cannot get a PCC, you have to prove you made a good faith effort to obtain the PCC, document those efforts as well as why you were unsuccessful. I agree with scylla - although your situation is a bit different, your lawyer failed you by not doing this. You stated that the Embassy provided you with a letter of refusal - did you submit this to IRCC? If not, that was a big mistake.

I would not bother trying to ask for reconsideration (reconsideration is when IRCC makes a mistake, but in this case the error was yours). Submit a new application with a complete Letter of Explanation and request for exemption of the PCC requirement, documentation of your efforts, and the Letter of refusal. (Certainly overkill on my part, but my documentation was about an inch thick for each PCC I could not obtain - back in the days of the paper application).

Alas, I have no idea how IRCC will view the reason that you cannot obtain the PCC.

Thanks.

Does it make a difference that I do in fact have a legitimate police certificate, it is simply not from the Embassy, but as directed by the Ministry of Foreign affairs, from the police department?

Another problem I am facing is that the Embassy flat out refused to provide any document to me, they even refused to provide a letter that they refused to provide me with the police certificate. All I have is the statement that I did pay for the police certificate. They did not even return the payment. I don't know why exactly they do this. I am guessing they do this intentionally, to make it harder for people who have not served in the army to emigrate.

 

[jes_ON]

100% agree. Lawyer completely messed up here. Massive, massive fail.

jes_ON- We did the same for my husband. We had a huge stack of evidence for the PCC that could not be obtained which we included with the original application including: letter from my husband explaining the circumstances and actions he had taken to try to obtain one, attestation from him that he has a clean record from that period, proof of emails to multiple embassies and consulates requesting assistance in obtaining the PCC, copies of email responses from embassies / consulates, printed evidence from US government websites stating the PCC could not be obtained for that period of time, etc.

Same! In addition, I kept a log of the attempted phone calls to the non-functioning telephone number : ) I found the info on the US State Dept website very useful (esp. when it contradicted out of date info on IRCC´s website regarding PCCs).

One thing I forgot to mention was that I also included the documents I had proving my residence in those countries during that time period - e.g. entry/exit stamps in the passport, residence permits, local ID (e.g. driver´s license, company ID), list of addresses (residence and work), and the names/contact of a couple of people there who could vouch for me.

 

[jes_ON]

Thanks.

Does it make a difference that I do in fact have a legitimate police certificate, it is simply not from the Embassy, but as directed by the Ministry of Foreign affairs, from the police department?

Without knowing the country, I can´t point to the instructions on the IRCC website about what they require. In many countries, there are different types or levels of PCCs, and IRCC usually wants and accepts a specific type, and rejects any others. It may be a useful document to supplement your request for an exemption (along with everything else), but it obviously did not, on its own, meet IRCCs´requirements.

BTW - a lot of people have issues with submitting the wrong PCC, it is not just because of your particular circumstance.

Another problem I am facing is that the Embassy flat out refused to provide any document to me, they even refused to provide a letter that they refused to provide me with the police certificate.

OK, I guess I misread your original post. Again, document it. Keep a log of your efforts. I pestered one embassy repeatedly (based on IRCC´s instructions that they issued the PCC) until they sent me an email telling me they couldn´t do it and to stop bothering them (and within a month, IRCC had changed the outdated info on their website, LOL). Then I had it in writing : )

All I have is the statement that I did pay for the police certificate.
Well, that is good, you have proof that you tried.

If you are comfortable with identifying the country, there might be some other suggestions.