Re-entering Canada by US land border without PR card

[asaeed100]

My RO was stayed until 2022 when the appeal will be reopened.

I will start a new thread describing procedural aspects of it soon. It is just that have got the decision very recently

@canuck78 see.......

 

[asaeed100]

They are not anti-immigrant, they are telling you what the real life IAD practice is. If the facts that they are referring to do not relate to you and you have stronger H&C considerations, good for you.

If these facts are relevant, they are not misdirecting people. All these are very relevant considerations.

It won't help you to take such comments personally, dismiss them, and label people. Better to verify them before making any conclusions.

I am an immigrant who has recently gone through an appeal hearing. I can confirm that they are telling relevant things. You can't blame me of being anti-immigrant, can you?

i am aware of the facts and also aware of my chances. but some here are busy giving wrong advises. they have admitted on record doing that..
you can sense that in the wordings they use in all of their negative posts. anti-immigration sentiments oozes from their posts. the point is the forum is about providing support, what the actual rules and regulations are about, share experiences, and let the people decide what they should do. but many of these so called VIP members try to divert you as much as they can, so that even if you have slight chance, you dont get to avail it.

just as you got stay order on your RO, and that till 2022. many people can benefit from your experience. but these individuals discourage you from even applying for PRTDs or going though an appeal etc. (see other recent threads)

 

[asaeed100]

This is where you are incorrect. If your appeal gets refused and you don’t. resettle in your country of citizenship you will have difficulty getting a TRV. The fact that you don’t have strong ties to your home country will also make getting a TRV difficult. If you are reported and attempt to appeal you have shown that you want to remain in Canada so will have to show very strong ties to your home country to get a TRV. Given that you have a minor child without PR how would you come to Canada? Getting a TRV for your youngest child is not as easy as you seem to think. You and your spouse would not qualify for a supervisa (without your youngest child) until your eldest child is working and has earned a good income for over a year so that will likely be in over 5 years. Where will your youngest child attend school? She doesn’t have PR and your other plan involves you trying to visit between Canada and the US for the rest of your lives which is not actually a realistic plan if you don’t have a home base in your home country. There are a lot of holes in your plan that you aren’t considering. It is not anti-immigrant sentiment. Your desire to be with your adult child while they attend school and with extended family is not strong reasons that you need to return to Canada. Owning property in Canada is also not a reason why you need to retain PR especially if you purchase after not being in Canada for over 10 years. @dpenabill has already pointed out that your confidence that you will return to Canada and remain either as a PR or a visitor isn’t consistent with the reality of your I migration situation. What is your 6 year old doesn’t get a TRV? What will you do then? TRP? How about their schooling?

let me answer your quesstion one by one.
If your appeal gets refused and you don’t. resettle in your country of citizenship you will have difficulty getting a TRV?

if my appeal gets refused, will request a stay order. and if that doenst happen i will leave. . but at least i would have given it a shot. Right? Right !
you seem to have shrunk the timelines of couples of years to days. as far as getting a TRV is concerned, here is bummer for you. i have applied for a TRV a month ago, for a relative while he wasnt even his home country at that time. , had been refused earlier, was job less at the same time and nothing to show other than savings as income. TRV got approved (lucky, you would say). Fyi. TRV approvals are based on different factors and you know that.. can apply many times too. better chances are from US in my case. . we will get to that when and if reach that stage.

Getting a TRV for your youngest child is not as easy as you seem to think.
hold your horses. with the will of God. I will update you soon enough.

Your desire to be with your adult child while they attend school and with extended family is not strong reasons that you need to return to Canada.
this is what you think. i wasnt even thinking about this. my reasons for being away were different. and reasons to come back will not rely on this factor or the properties i intend to buy. but how much you have established yourself in Canada while awaiting a hearing, does count. does it not?

Owning property in Canada is also not a reason why you need to retain PR
AGAIN, I i didnt say that. i said it was for investment purposes.

How about their schooling?
This will calm you down a bit. i am paying for one of my daughters tuition
intend to do the same for other children once/if i move to Canada.

What is your 6 year old doesn’t get a TRV? What will you do then?
i wont commit suicide. The world wont come to an end. There is a long term plan B. i wont disclose now.

in short , please understand that i have no personal issues with you or your comments.
but my only request to you many of your sidekicks from 4chan is to keep your personal feelings aside, focus on the topic and what the person is inquiring about, tone down on your posts, sound helpful (even if you cant), encourage people and dont act like a jealous wife.
LASTLY dont try to take away someone chances even if they have very remote chances on any of their issues.

Remember if your intentions are genuine and you at least tried, your Lord does help you in everything

Lone Caanuk warriors should continue to stand guard , monitor and scan through forums making sure there arent any immigration or Residency obligations violations.


Thank You

 

[bedema]

I am so glad that someone finally brought this up.

 

[canuck78]

I am so glad that someone finally brought this up.

pretty sure the majority of Canadians who met their residency requirements and paid their taxes would be mad that people can show up at the US border and get waived through using a landing document from the 90s or a visa exempt passport when you are supposed to declare your PR status. Same thing as children who return at 18 to attend university paying domestic fees when their family have spent a few weeks in Canada 10+ years ago and never paid taxes to deserve the subsidized education. International students should also be mad at that. Many may have spent more time in Canada on vacation than some of the PRs getting domestic fees. This is not some racist conspiracy. Just asking that people follow the residency rules if they want to benefit from what Canada has to offer. Considering the residency and citizenship requirements are minimal it isn’t too much to ask.

 

[bedema]

You are simply making this forum like a moral classroom where it supposed to be a forum that people can ask questions freely without being pointed at. Try to express you thoughts in a nicer and supportive way rather, you can change the world.

 

[sharmausct]

The IAD is not a "court" as such. It is an administrative tribunal, which, again, is quasi-judicial.

It is likely that most "RO cases" are NOT appealed. Very few such cases, even among those appealed, ever make it to a "court" (the Federal Court in particular, which is the judicial tribunal which may grant judicial review for IAD decisions).

"RO cases" generally arise in three situations:

-- PR TD application is denied due to RO non-compliance and PR appeals that (this is the most common, by a big margin)
-- PR is Reported and issued Departure Order at a PoE upon arrival from abroad when in breach of the RO
-- PR engaged in some other transaction with IRCC (such as a PR card application or an application to sponsor a family member's PR) is determined to be in breach, and issued a 44(1) Report and then a Departure by a local IRCC office​

I listed these in the order in which such cases are seen in the published, official decisions by the IAD. The number of these case arising from the denial of a PR TD appears to vastly exceed the others.

If by "layers" you are referring to lawyers, immigration lawyers in particular, I cannot explain what you say they say about RO cases ending up in "court." Very few RO cases make it to the Federal Court. Very, very few.

If by "court" they are referring to the IAD, well, again, that is not actually a "court," but an administrative tribunal, and again the officially published decisions are overwhelmingly dominated by cases where a PR appeals the denial of an application for a PR Travel Document. Which, however, might explain why none of those you have talked to spoke of appeals from PoE Reports and Departure Orders . . . lawyers, after all, are experienced in the kinds of cases they are hired for.

In this latter regard, it warrants consideration of the practical aspects involved. Most PRs with a valid PR card, and thus able to travel directly to a Canadian PoE, are in compliance with the RO. PRs without a valid PR card need to apply for a PR TD, and if not in compliance with the RO that will typically be denied. Sure, some PRs without a valid PR card can and do travel via the U.S., and thus are able to arrive at a PoE despite the lack of a valid PR card and notwithstanding their breach of the RO. How many PRs abroad without a valid PR card but with status to travel via the U.S. are making such a trip is hard to guess, but given the logistics in conjunction with the RISKS, the number is undoubtedly limited. And then, among those who do, the number who will appeal when Reported and issued a Departure Order, is likely fewer than those who can readily forecast a negative outcome and who do not bother to pursue a rather likely futile and, if lawyers are involved expensive appeal.


PROCEDURE FOR PR'S ISSUED REPORT AT PoE:

In any event, whatever the number, the procedure for a PR who is examined at a PoE and determined to be in breach of the RO by the examining officer (in Secondary), is what I described in my previous post. Again, some, apparently a few, have the interview with the Minister's Delegate deferred to a later time, but perusing the officially published decisions in IAD RO cases which involve a PR Reported upon arrival at a PoE, the usual procedure appears to be very much the procedure described in the Operational Manuals (with a few wrinkles). That is, the 44(1) Report is nearly immediately followed by the Minister's Delegate interviewing the PR and issuing a Departure Order. Thus, the PR who is Reported is typically issued a Departure Order while still at the PoE.

And to be clear, just like the Visa Office decision denying an application for a PR TD, that is the decision which terminates PR status. It means PR status is lost UNLESS the PR appeals and that appeal is successful.

To research the IAD decisions, see https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/

you mentioned that ro may happen when someone do any transaction with cic. Does this include following situation..I meet ro and applied for pr card renew.my wife and kids do not meet ro and are waiting to aaply when they meet ro in last 5 years. Is it possible that my application for or renew may result cic deter

 

[asaeed100]

You are simply making this forum like a moral classroom where it supposed to be a forum that people can ask questions freely without being pointed at. Try to express you thoughts in a nicer and supportive way rather, you can change the world.

totally agree
someone shouldn't act like a self pro-claimed spokesman and appointed leader or a representative for certain group of people

NO One, is breaking any rules.
same goes for the ones who come to take passports only and leave off for better countries or go back home

All are working around the regulations that are set in place

 

[Bs65]

you mentioned that ro may happen when someone do any transaction with cic. Does this include following situation..I meet ro and applied for pr card renew.my wife and kids do not meet ro and are waiting to aaply when they meet ro in last 5 years. Is it possible that my application for or renew may result cic deter

Not quite sure understand your question but for the residency obligation it is an individual responsibility to meet not a family responsibility if that is what you are asking. So if some members of a family have not met the RO that has no effect on those in a family who have met the RO should the individuals who have met the RO apply to renew .

 

[sharmausct]

Not quite sure understand your question but for the residency obligation it is an individual responsibility to meet not a family responsibility if that is what you are asking. So if some members of a family have not met the RO that has no effect on those in a family who have met the RO should the individuals who have met the RO apply to renew .

i know that part. Sorry my question was nit complete

 

[sharmausct]

This was mentioned in one of old post


"RO cases" generally arise in three situations:
-- PR TD application is denied due to RO non-compliance and PR appeals that (this is the most common, by a big margin)
-- PR is Reported and issued Departure Order at a PoE upon arrival from abroad when in breach of the RO
-- PR engaged in some other transaction with IRCC (such as a PR card application or an application to sponsor a family member's PR) is determined to be in breach, and issued a 44(1) Report and then a Departure by a local IRCC office

My question is
The third one...is it applicable for my case?

My case:

I just applied for pr card renew as I meet ro. But my wife is in breach of ro at the moment and can only apply on may 01,2020. Assuming that she is not going to India till she meet ro in may 2020, Will my application may still trigger cic discovering her ro breach and resulting her to be reported for ro breach.

I am not asking about my application, I know it will be cleared as i meet ro. My question is ..will my application result in cic discovering her ro breach and taking action against my wife status

 

[canuck78]

totally agree
someone shouldn't act like a self pro-claimed spokesman and appointed leader or a representative for certain group of people

NO One, is breaking any rules.
same goes for the ones who come to take passports only and leave off for better countries or go back home

All are working around the regulations that are set in place

Actually you are supposed to declare your PR status when entering Canada. Using your other passport and not using your expired PR card or landing document isn’t following the rules. I partially blame Canada for not upgrading their IT system and CBSA being too overwhelmed to report those who have not respected the RO. Hopefully the IT system is finally upgraded soon. Most people do actually meet the RO obligations and don’t come in via the US border knowing the CBSA agents are often overworked and unwilling to do extra work reporting people so try their luck.

I am allowed to respond if I am being called a member of 4chan. Answer plenty of questions but I also think RO times are extremely lenient and not hard to follow. If people don’t want to commit 2 years why should they be able to get another chance 20 years later.

 

[canuck78]

This was mentioned in one of old post


"RO cases" generally arise in three situations:
-- PR TD application is denied due to RO non-compliance and PR appeals that (this is the most common, by a big margin)
-- PR is Reported and issued Departure Order at a PoE upon arrival from abroad when in breach of the RO
-- PR engaged in some other transaction with IRCC (such as a PR card application or an application to sponsor a family member's PR) is determined to be in breach, and issued a 44(1) Report and then a Departure by a local IRCC office

My question is
The third one...is it applicable for my case?

My case:

I just applied for pr card renew as I meet ro. But my wife is in breach of ro at the moment and can only apply on may 01,2020. Assuming that she is not going to India till she meet ro in may 2020, Will my application may still trigger cic discovering her ro breach and resulting her to be reported for ro breach.

I am not asking about my application, I know it will be cleared as i meet ro. My question is ..will my application result in cic discovering her ro breach and taking action against my wife status

No you will be fine.

 

[Bs65]

This was mentioned in one of old post


"RO cases" generally arise in three situations:
-- PR TD application is denied due to RO non-compliance and PR appeals that (this is the most common, by a big margin)
-- PR is Reported and issued Departure Order at a PoE upon arrival from abroad when in breach of the RO
-- PR engaged in some other transaction with IRCC (such as a PR card application or an application to sponsor a family member's PR) is determined to be in breach, and issued a 44(1) Report and then a Departure by a local IRCC office

My question is
The third one...is it applicable for my case?

My case:

I just applied for pr card renew as I meet ro. But my wife is in breach of ro at the moment and can only apply on may 01,2020. Assuming that she is not going to India till she meet ro in may 2020, Will my application may still trigger cic discovering her ro breach and resulting her to be reported for ro breach.

I am not asking about my application, I know it will be cleared as i meet ro. My question is ..will my application result in cic discovering her ro breach and taking action against my wife status

As per Canuck suggested there will be no issue given the transaction you refer to there is if you as a PR who has not met their RO try to sponsor someone for PR from scratch then that could be an issue. You do not 'sponsor' your wife or family members to renew their PR cards they are responsible for their RO status not you.

 

[asaeed100]

Actually you are supposed to declare your PR status when entering Canada. Using your other passport and not using your expired PR card or landing document isn’t following the rules. I partially blame Canada for not upgrading their IT system and CBSA being too overwhelmed to report those who have not respected the RO. Hopefully the IT system is finally upgraded soon. Most people do actually meet the RO obligations and don’t come in via the US border knowing the CBSA agents are often overworked and unwilling to do extra work reporting people so try their luck.

I am allowed to respond if I am being called a member of 4chan. Answer plenty of questions but I also think RO times are extremely lenient and not hard to follow. If people don’t want to commit 2 years why should they be able to get another chance 20 years later.

given the number of assumptions taken and the the level of speculations made, it is a good thing that immigration system policy making (in any country) are in the hands of people with a big heart and mind - most importantly a soul. whose minds are trained to see the bigger pictures in any matter. . who probably had foreseen and considered any loopholes or gaps. canadian immigration has matured over the yrs and go back decades and have probably gone over multiples of revisions. suited to certain targeted groups. so frankly speaking any 4chan member can wish and pray for it to change to their liking. such negative people exist in every era. in my opinion it is better to leave it policy makers worry about anyone taking advantage of the system. taking out frustration on every Jane and Joe, lee or Gopal who visits such forums seeking help is not going to make a difference.