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Police Clearance Certificate

nskatcv

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Hello everyone,

In the doc checklist it says one has to provide PCC from all countries outside Canada going back 4 yrs from date of application.

I hold a continuous PR status for almost 3 yrs (soon to qualify for citizenship), and was in US before that, from where I submitted my PCC for the PR application. Now that I had already submitted a PCC from US earlier, and I have only been in Canada ever since, do I need to get a fresh PCC for the same old period of my stay in US? Isn't that redundant?

Please clarify, so that I can begin making arrangements for that now. It was an arduous process to get it the first time.

Thanks & Regards
 

ahmed5

Hero Member
Sep 7, 2014
693
40
Canada
Visa Office......
NDVO
NOC Code......
1224
App. Filed.......
24 - 12 - 2014
Nomination.....
PER 21 - 03 - 2015
AOR Received.
11 - 05 - 2015
IELTS Request
8 ( send with application )
Med's Request
06 - 08 - 2015
Med's Done....
11 - 08 -2015
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
13 - 10 - 2015
VISA ISSUED...
18- 10 - 2015
LANDED..........
09 / 02 / 2016
I , did not submit any PCC.

I submitted one from Indian along with PR application , and after that I was in Canada .
I also submitted one from UK , but at time of PR Application. I got my AOR , also FP request
 
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nskatcv

Champion Member
May 27, 2014
1,067
205
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Aug 11 2014
Med's Done....
Feb 16 2015
Passport Req..
Jul 03 2015
VISA ISSUED...
Jul 08 2015
LANDED..........
Jan 09 2016
I , did not submit any PCC.

I submitted one from Indian along with PR application , and after that I was in Canada .
I also submitted one from UK , but at time of PR Application. I got my AOR , also FP request
Perfect, if that is how it goes. Happy to hear it. Did you explain the reason for not submitting it? which they ask in the application.

But CIC should somehow mention this exception on their website.

Regards
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,468
3,219
Perfect, if that is how it goes. Happy to hear it. Did you explain the reason for not submitting it? which they ask in the application.

But CIC should somehow mention this exception on their website.

Regards
Actually the drop down help in the application itself AND the guide for applying BOTH explain these exceptions, and provide a specific example (as I recall it is the Example numbered 1, of the five listed). And specify that the applicant needs to list the respective country in the chart AND state the applicable explanation in the box provided.

REMINDER: just getting AOR does not guarantee that IRCC will not later request a police certificate. Indeed, even if the applicant truthfully checks "no" for item 10.b. (was not in another country for six months or more in the previous four years), does NOT guarantee IRCC will not ask for a police certificate later.

Item 10.b is about what needs to be included in the application itself.

IRCC can request additional proof regarding any of the requirements for citizenship, including proof that the applicant has no pending charges abroad or any convictions in the last four years in another country.

For the U.S. IRCC can directly access at least a name-record criminal history database, and actually does this for all applicants anyway (it is part of the GCMS background check, which is done repeatedly during the process).

Unfortunately for some applicants, concerns about potential charges or convictions in other countries might be addressed through the background clearance process which can involve referrals to visa office personnel or even authorities in that other country, which can cause delays. I suspect this may be the cause of longer processing times for applicants from countries like Iran, with which Canada has no formal diplomatic relations, making it more difficult and thus, I suspect, taking a lot more time, to get clearance (if and when there are concerns).
 
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nskatcv

Champion Member
May 27, 2014
1,067
205
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Aug 11 2014
Med's Done....
Feb 16 2015
Passport Req..
Jul 03 2015
VISA ISSUED...
Jul 08 2015
LANDED..........
Jan 09 2016
Actually the drop down help in the application itself AND the guide for applying BOTH explain these exceptions, and provide a specific example (as I recall it is the Example numbered 1, of the five listed). And specify that the applicant needs to list the respective country in the chart AND state the applicable explanation in the box provided..
Thanks for the reply. I apologize for not going through the guide. Actually, I still have to qualify and just went through the checklist to see what all will be needed to prepare beforehand. So came here.

You are right. Example 1 applies in this case. But what do you think the red statement means?

Example 1: You lived in France for one year (365 days) before you became a permanent resident 3 years ago. You did not travel to France after you became a permanent resident. You would answer “Yes” to the question and you would need to provide a police certificate from France if you did not provide one with your immigration application. If you provided a police certificate from France with your immigration application, tell us this in the box provided at Question 10b.

After becoming PR, I certainly have traveled to US a few times for very short visits. Would I then still be exempted or would have to submit a PCC? Your take?

Thanks.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,468
3,219
Thanks for the reply. I apologize for not going through the guide. Actually, I still have to qualify and just went through the checklist to see what all will be needed to prepare beforehand. So came here.

You are right. Example 1 applies in this case. But what do you think the red statement means?

Example 1: You lived in France for one year (365 days) before you became a permanent resident 3 years ago. You did not travel to France after you became a permanent resident. You would answer “Yes” to the question and you would need to provide a police certificate from France if you did not provide one with your immigration application. If you provided a police certificate from France with your immigration application, tell us this in the box provided at Question 10b.

After becoming PR, I certainly have traveled to US a few times for very short visits. Would I then still be exempted or would have to submit a PCC? Your take?

Thanks.
"After becoming PR, I certainly have traveled to US a few times for very short visits. Would I then still be exempted or would have to submit a PCC?"​

I am NOT an expert and this question calls for applying an interpretation to a specific individual's facts. This is the sort of question a person needs to answer for himself or herself, using his or her own best judgment, pursuant to his or her best understanding of what is asked and how to answer it in that individual's particular circumstances.

You highlight the key information in the example. A literal, technical reading of the example suggests a clearance should be provided.

Unless the U.S. is also your home country. If the U.S. is your home country, the application form itself states:
"Note: If you were in your country or territory of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada and this time falls within this four (4) year period, you are not required to provide a police certificate. Please indicate this in the explanation box."​

Thus, if the U.S. is your home country, still list it and in the explanation box state "home country PCC submitted in PR process" or something to that effect. No need to include a new clearance.

If you are not a U.S. citizen, and a truthful answer to item 10.b is "yes," and you have returned to the U.S. after landing, my understanding is that you are required (at least technically) to submit a new clearance with the application.

That said . . . in PRACTICAL terms there is a fair amount of wiggle room here. Not that I suggest let alone recommend taking advantage of the wiggle room. Indeed, I mostly mention it because it helps explain some of the anecdotal *no problem* reports occasionally seen in forums like this. (There is way too much "I did this and it was OK . . . so it is OK" poor reasoning in forums like this; according to this logic, the few times I have driven over 150k on the QEW but not ticketed would support saying it is OK to go 150k on the QEW, when NO, that is not the case. BTW, been many years since I last did that, and when I did let's say, with much affection, there was a woman to blame.)

The requirement to submit a police clearance, after all, is NOT something required to be eligible for citizenship. It is more like the requirement to provide employment history. There is no employment requirement to be eligible for citizenship. BUT applicants are required to detail their employment history for the full eligibility period in order to make a COMPLETE APPLICATION that will be accepted for processing. Failure to provide employment history (which includes reporting periods of unemployment) will result in the application being returned as incomplete.

Thus, for example, if an applicant who provided a U.S. police clearance during the PR process checks "yes" in response to item 10.b and lists the U.S. and in the explanation box simply states "PCC provided in PR process," odds are good that will pass the application-completeness check. And then whether or not there is an issue later will likely depend on a range of factors. The applicant could, for example, proceed to obtain the U.S. clearance in the meantime and submit it later, either proactively or after getting a request for one. Or simply wait to see how it goes.

Again, I am NOT at all suggesting taking that approach. Better to follow the instructions as best you understand them. AND, indeed, if you are still short of meeting the presence requirement, much better to proceed to obtain the U.S. clearance in the meantime and go ahead and submit it with the application. REMEMBER it will be a good idea to wait to apply at least a month or more AFTER you meet the presence requirement. (A solid margin over the minimum is an especially good idea for applicants with status in the U.S., given how easy it is to go back and forth over the U.S. border.)
 

nskatcv

Champion Member
May 27, 2014
1,067
205
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Aug 11 2014
Med's Done....
Feb 16 2015
Passport Req..
Jul 03 2015
VISA ISSUED...
Jul 08 2015
LANDED..........
Jan 09 2016
"After becoming PR, I certainly have traveled to US a few times for very short visits. Would I then still be exempted or would have to submit a PCC?"​

I am NOT an expert and this question calls for applying an interpretation to a specific individual's facts. This is the sort of question a person needs to answer for himself or herself, using his or her own best judgment, pursuant to his or her best understanding of what is asked and how to answer it in that individual's particular circumstances.

You highlight the key information in the example. A literal, technical reading of the example suggests a clearance should be provided.

Unless the U.S. is also your home country. If the U.S. is your home country, the application form itself states:
"Note: If you were in your country or territory of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada and this time falls within this four (4) year period, you are not required to provide a police certificate. Please indicate this in the explanation box."​

Thus, if the U.S. is your home country, still list it and in the explanation box state "home country PCC submitted in PR process" or something to that effect. No need to include a new clearance.

If you are not a U.S. citizen, and a truthful answer to item 10.b is "yes," and you have returned to the U.S. after landing, my understanding is that you are required (at least technically) to submit a new clearance with the application.

That said . . . in PRACTICAL terms there is a fair amount of wiggle room here. Not that I suggest let alone recommend taking advantage of the wiggle room. Indeed, I mostly mention it because it helps explain some of the anecdotal *no problem* reports occasionally seen in forums like this. (There is way too much "I did this and it was OK . . . so it is OK" poor reasoning in forums like this; according to this logic, the few times I have driven over 150k on the QEW but not ticketed would support saying it is OK to go 150k on the QEW, when NO, that is not the case. BTW, been many years since I last did that, and when I did let's say, with much affection, there was a woman to blame.)

The requirement to submit a police clearance, after all, is NOT something required to be eligible for citizenship. It is more like the requirement to provide employment history. There is no employment requirement to be eligible for citizenship. BUT applicants are required to detail their employment history for the full eligibility period in order to make a COMPLETE APPLICATION that will be accepted for processing. Failure to provide employment history (which includes reporting periods of unemployment) will result in the application being returned as incomplete.

Thus, for example, if an applicant who provided a U.S. police clearance during the PR process checks "yes" in response to item 10.b and lists the U.S. and in the explanation box simply states "PCC provided in PR process," odds are good that will pass the application-completeness check. And then whether or not there is an issue later will likely depend on a range of factors. The applicant could, for example, proceed to obtain the U.S. clearance in the meantime and submit it later, either proactively or after getting a request for one. Or simply wait to see how it goes.

Again, I am NOT at all suggesting taking that approach. Better to follow the instructions as best you understand them. AND, indeed, if you are still short of meeting the presence requirement, much better to proceed to obtain the U.S. clearance in the meantime and go ahead and submit it with the application. REMEMBER it will be a good idea to wait to apply at least a month or more AFTER you meet the presence requirement. (A solid margin over the minimum is an especially good idea for applicants with status in the U.S., given how easy it is to go back and forth over the U.S. border.)
Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree with you on the fallacious logic of just taking something that works to be a general rule. I am also someone who goes by the book than few assurances.

US is not my home country. But I also have a hunch that I might not be asked for the PCC. But time is on my side and FBI seems to have come out of their slack period (took really long back then). So I may as well think about getting one, or if not, can always get it when asked.

One take-away from your and the previous comment is that one may submit the application without a PCC in these 'ambiguous' cases and the application will most probably be at least accepted (and not rejected on this ground), even if the PCC is asked for later.

Thanks & Regards.

PS: I hope it was not the woman in 'your car' that was to blame. :p
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,468
3,219
PS: I hope it was not the woman in 'your car' that was to blame. :p
Of course she was. That and her need to arrive at the airport much, much faster than was anywhere near reasonable. We made it (barely, this was back in the day you could pull up to the doors at the Hamilton airport and virtually walk straight through to the plane). She got back to her job on time. Things worked out. Took a few years but eventually we married. She sponsored me. I am now a citizen. Some risks are more worth taking than others.
 
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ahmed5

Hero Member
Sep 7, 2014
693
40
Canada
Visa Office......
NDVO
NOC Code......
1224
App. Filed.......
24 - 12 - 2014
Nomination.....
PER 21 - 03 - 2015
AOR Received.
11 - 05 - 2015
IELTS Request
8 ( send with application )
Med's Request
06 - 08 - 2015
Med's Done....
11 - 08 -2015
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
13 - 10 - 2015
VISA ISSUED...
18- 10 - 2015
LANDED..........
09 / 02 / 2016
Perfect, if that is how it goes. Happy to hear it. Did you explain the reason for not submitting it? which they ask in the application.

But CIC should somehow mention this exception on their website.

Regards
I think they mention it on their website.