Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

[shyness]

Congratulations.

Did you travel to your home country using the home passport?

Not to my home country but another country

 

[Defina]

Not to my home country but another country

So when you landed in Canada from the trip you use your country passport? Did the immigration officer ask you why you use your country passport rather than your RTD?

 

[shyness]

So when you landed in Canada from the trip you use your country passport? Did the immigration officer ask you why you use your country passport rather than your RTD?

Yes i use my country passport and no the officer didn't question me about my passport...im awaiting my oath

 

[screech339]

So when you landed in Canada from the trip you use your country passport? Did the immigration officer ask you why you use your country passport rather than your RTD?

Refugees can use their own country passport to travel to other countries. There is nothing wrong with doing that. It's when you re-entered your country that you are supposedly fleeing from, that is when it can become a problem.

 

[shyness]

Refugees can use their own country passport to travel to other countries. There is nothing wrong with doing that. It's when you re-entered your country that you are supposedly fleeing from, that is when it can become a problem.

Completely agree...cause i dont see why we cant when the officer says i can travel all over the world except the country where i claim refugees she never told me not to use my passport

 

[Fallen_Warrior]

Well, even renewing a home country passport may create presumption that you want to obtain the diplomatic cover of your home country. It may be less dangerous than actually traveling to the home country but it may still create issues.

 

[shyness]

Well, even renewing a home country passport may create presumption that you want to obtain the diplomatic cover of your home country. It may be less dangerous than actually traveling to the home country but it may still create issues.

Ohhk understand

 

[screech339]

As Fallen Warrior said, renewing your passport can also be construe to accept the country's protection as well. However this is a smaller concern over actually re-entering your home country. Even stepping in the country embassy could be viewed as accepting the country's protection since you are stepping in the country's territory as well. We all know what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.

 

[dpenabill]

Refugees can use their own country passport to travel to other countries. There is nothing wrong with doing that. It's when you re-entered your country that you are supposedly fleeing from, that is when it can become a problem.

While you have acknowledged this is not entirely accurate, a further clarification with some emphasis is warranted.

As @Fallen_Warrior observed, EITHER renewing or using a home country passport creates a presumption of reavailment, which is grounds for ceasing a refugee's protected person status, even after the refugee has become a Canadian PR. The Canadian law regarding this incorporates the UNHCR guidelines.

As has been discussed at length in hundreds of posts above, however, how the Canadian government has approached this IN PRACTICE indicates a policy of NOT strictly enforcing the cessation provisions. The problem is that there are no clear or reliable guidelines. We have discussed the nature and scope of uncertainty at length. @shyness is not the first to report successfully becoming a Canadian citizen despite having engaged in activity which could lead to cessation proceedings. And hopefully not the last.

As discussed in depth in many previous posts, the risk of cessation proceedings is dramatically greater when there is a concurrence of both using another country's passport (obtaining or using any other country's passport creates the presumption the individual has that country's protection and thus is no longer eligible to keep protected person status) AND travel to the home country. Nonetheless, there are officially reported cases in which Canada pursued cessation based on having and using a home country passport without alleging travel to the home country.

In contrast, it warrants noting that even refugee-PRs who have done both, using a home country passport and traveling to the home country, have reported successfully becoming a Canadian citizen.

So it is NOT at all clear who IRCC refers to CBSA for cessation investigation or which refugee-PRs CBSA decides to proceed against. It is clear that Canada is still proceeding against some (including in reported data cited in previous posts). It is readily apparent (as the anecdotal by @shyness and others show) that Canada is NOT proceeding against some.

What makes things even more complicated is that not all refugee-PRs have the same status; some are not governed by cessation provisions. I do not know anywhere near enough about the particulars in Canada's approach to providing refugee or protected person status to even begin sorting this out, other than to recognize that these cessation provisions do not apply equally to all.

All we can safely say, for now, is that any refugee, including refugee-PRs, should be aware that just obtaining a home country passport could be grounds for cessation of their status based on reavailment. In particular, obtaining or using a home country passport creates a presumption of reavailment. The risks of cessation investigation and proceedings increase if the refugee renews AND uses the home country passport. And the risk increases dramatically if the refugee uses a home country passport to travel to the home country.

But reports like that from @shyness offer significant hope there will be no problem for those who have already done some of these things.

Thus, to revisit much of what has been posted before, what we can safely say, again for now, for the refugee-PR (except those who are certain they are not subject to cessation) it is:

-- better to NOT renew or obtain a home country passport
-- better to NOT use a home country passport if one already has such a passport
-- better to NOT travel to the home country by any means
-- especially BEST to avoid travel to the home country using a home country passport
-- GOOD IDEA to consult with a lawyer before applying for citizenship if the refugee-PR has done ANY of the above
-- BUT no need to panic if you have done some of the above and have already applied for citizenship; BUT still BEST to not do any of the above again UNTIL after taking the citizenship oath​

NO WRONG-DOING INVOLVED:

It also warrants emphasizing that a refugee-PR is NOT doing anything that is wrong, under Canadian law, even if the refugee-PR travels to his or her home country or obtains a home country passport. Reavailment is NOT about doing anything that is morally or legally wrong. It is about who qualifies for protected person status and circumstances under which a person may no longer qualify for protected person status.

Sure, "wrong" is a very broad, vague term. We say we made a "wrong" turn if we went a way other than the way we wanted to go. But that is substantively different than saying someone made a "wrong" turn by going the wrong way on a one-way street, let alone referring to the commission of crimes involving moral turpitude as "wrong."

I believe it is important to be clear that there is no moral or legal "wrong" involved when a refugee-PR engages in actions which may be grounds for cessation of protected person status. Thus there is no compelling reason for Canadian authorities to pursue strict enforcement of the UNHCR guidelines. Similar to the PR Residency Obligation. There is no moral or legal wrong involved if a PR fails to meet the PR RO. It can have negative consequences in terms of losing PR status, but there is no moral or legal wrong involved, and it has NO negative implications for the individual in future transactions with the Canadian immigration system . . . and, in particular, there is no compelling reason (under current law, recognizing there are some forum participants who apparently have strong views otherwise) to strictly enforce the RO.

These are matters regarding which there tends to be broad discretion, for which policy and practice is more focused on the rule's purposes rather than the technicalities. The danger is that some see the leniency allowed others and interpret that to be a license to act that way.

 

[Defina]

Thank you for the advices.
I still have one question. So I am a Australia refugee PR, and I have to visit 3rd country using my country passport (since the country doesnt accept RTD). The problem is Australia gov doesnt recognize my country passport as valid travel document which means I can not use it when I pass Australia immigration check. So my question is, is it possible and safe to leave and enter Australia using my RTD, while enter and leave the 3rd country using my country passport?
I read articles about travelling with 2 passports (dual citizenship) and its okay to do so, but in my case I am a refugee and when I call the Immi staff they said its okay to travel with my country passport.. please share if you had the same experience.. it will help me..thank you

 

[canuck78]

Refugees can use their own country passport to travel to other countries. There is nothing wrong with doing that. It's when you re-entered your country that you are supposedly fleeing from, that is when it can become a problem.

this is incorrect. They can not use their home country passport wherever they travel.

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for the advices.
I still have one question. So I am a Australia refugee PR, and I have to visit 3rd country using my country passport (since the country doesnt accept RTD). The problem is Australia gov doesnt recognize my country passport as valid travel document which means I can not use it when I pass Australia immigration check. So my question is, is it possible and safe to leave and enter Australia using my RTD, while enter and leave the 3rd country using my country passport?
I read articles about travelling with 2 passports (dual citizenship) and its okay to do so, but in my case I am a refugee and when I call the Immi staff they said its okay to travel with my country passport.. please share if you had the same experience.. it will help me..thank you

this is a Canadian immigration forum. No you are not supposed to use 2 passports when doing the same trip.

 

[canuck78]

So when you landed in Canada from the trip you use your country passport? Did the immigration officer ask you why you use your country passport rather than your RTD?

Other people have been questioned especially traveling close to their home country. Would not risk using your home country passport. Risking lose the protection of a safe country is not worth it.

 

[Kambs16]

My MP finally got in touch with immigration about my delayed citizenship. Quick recap: did my citizenship test and interview in February 2019. So its been 1yr and 4 months not knowing my fate. Was questioned about trips home in my interview etc. Been no communication from IRCC since then to date. Applied PR card renewal end 2019 which was granted.
Back to today, IRCC informed my MP office that my file is "pending review" whatever that means. And because of this covid season they will have a back log and i should call back on September 30th if i haven't heard back. I still didnt understand. Review waiting for? The lady at the MPs office mentioned something about an interview but when i asked she wasnt clear..something like i might be called for an interview..but she couldn't clarify that. Thats where things stand. Just thought to share for anyone going through similar. An immigration consultant told me its a good sign if i have never heard back from IRCC IRCC requesting for information. Just hoping they were not saving it to ask me to present at a further interview.

 

[dpenabill]

My MP finally got in touch with immigration about my delayed citizenship. Quick recap: did my citizenship test and interview in February 2019. So its been 1yr and 4 months not knowing my fate. Was questioned about trips home in my interview etc. Been no communication from IRCC since then to date. Applied PR card renewal end 2019 which was granted.
Back to today, IRCC informed my MP office that my file is "pending review" whatever that means. And because of this covid season they will have a back log and i should call back on September 30th if i haven't heard back. I still didnt understand. Review waiting for? The lady at the MPs office mentioned something about an interview but when i asked she wasnt clear..something like i might be called for an interview..but she couldn't clarify that. Thats where things stand. Just thought to share for anyone going through similar. An immigration consultant told me its a good sign if i have never heard back from IRCC IRCC requesting for information. Just hoping they were not saving it to ask me to present at a further interview.

Thank you for the update.

Probably not much to glean from what the MP's office had to offer. "Further review" generally applies to any and all applications for which a final decision has not yet been made. So that alone is not much of a clue about where things stand.

Aspects inviting concern remain. Unfortunately. I do not recall your details, but of course they matter and IF this goes in the direction of an assessment focused on possible reavailment, the details will loom large and make the difference in how it goes.

My sense, as well, is that the longer things go without any more or less formal reavailment proceedings, that tends to be a good sign . . . but NOT as good as getting a decision made and being scheduled for the oath. And not good enough to entirely alleviate the inevitable anxiety. Hopefully, though, you are not dwelling on this and have managed to let it simmer in the background for now.



MORE ABOUT WHAT the MP's office said, about "further review."

There is a fair likelihood that the MP's office response suggests your case is waiting on an internal IRCC review (with likelihood there is no reavailment problem), rather than waiting on a CBSA review, given the more or less generic check-back after September advice.

If further action in your case is waiting on an internal IRCC review, my sense is the odds would be very good you are in the clear or almost in the clear.

If it is the latter, if your application is waiting on a review by CBSA, that would signal more risk. This would NOT necessarily indicate a negative outcome, but a continuing risk that reavailment proceedings could still be initiated.

Unfortunately it appears that MP offices generally tend to be less than clear in communications regarding these things. My impression is that the personnel in an MP's office who actually interact with IRCC are not all that familiar with these procedures and probably have trouble even formulating good questions let alone fully understanding the responses. So it is difficult to draw a firm conclusion based on what the MP's office offered. Sounds like just an internal IRCC review, typical for applications generally, which would be good news, but unfortunately hard to say with much confidence.

Hoping this goes well for you. Hoping too it is not too worrying.