Citizenship Through Grandparent

[MissMisery]

Hi folks,
My grandmother was born in Quebec in 1929 to Irish born parents who had arrived in Canada a few months prior. They lived in Canada for approximately four years before returning to the Republic of Ireland (then called the Irish Free State) to settle permanently.

My mother was born in Ireland in 1963 and I was also born in Ireland in 1988.

My mother never applied to register her Canadian citizenship but she does plan to apply for a Canadian citizenship certificate in the coming months, which from what I can gather would be a fairly straight forward procedure as we have my grandmother's birth cert, what's less clear is if I would qualify for a citizen certificate once my mother receives hers. Even though I have no immediate, or indeed long term plans, to make use of Canadian citizenship I plan to submit an application to get a definitive answer providing there's any chance whatsoever I qualify. However, given the long processing time for certificates it would be nice to know sooner whether or not I likely qualify for citizenship, which is where I hoped you guys could help.

According to the “Am I a Canadian citizen” tool I'm likely not a citizen, this seems to be due to answering no to the question “did you parent apply for and was granted Canadian citizenship before your were born”. If I answer yes to this question it says I'm likely a citizen.

But could it not be argue since my mother can claim her citizenship through descent and not say through naturalisation that she was a Canadian citizen, or at least entitled to be one, at the time of my birth even if she had not formally registered her citizenship?

To further confuse matters it seems my grandmother may not have been a Canadian citizen between 1947 and 2015, as she may have been one of the so called 'Lost Canadians' due to not having British subject status on the 1 January 1947. However, I'm not sure about this, as I don't know what was required to lose one's British subject status. Would leaving Canada to live in Ireland be enough? From some cursory reading it seems Irish citizens didn't lose their British subject status until 1949 when Ireland officially became a republic – would having British subject status in 1947 but losing it afterwards cause a loss of Canadian citizenship?

However, even if my grandmother didn't lose her citizenship due to this law she, and by extension my mother, may have been ineligible for Canadian citizenship from 1947 to 2009 due to dual citizenship being disallowed. Under Irish law my grandmother was an Irish citizen at birth due to her father being an Irish citizen. However, my grandmother never took out an Irish passport or officially registered her Irish citizenship. It might also be worth mentioning my mother didn’t take out an Irish passport prior to my birth but she was of course an Irish citizen at birth.

Also according to this extract from Wikipedia it would seem my mother was not a Canadian citizen at birth or even entitled to be one.

Between 1947 and 1977, a person born to a Canadian citizen parent would only acquire Canadian citizenship if his or her birth was registered at a Canadian embassy, consulate or high commission. Canadian citizenship between this period could only be passed down by Canadian fathers when born in wedlock, or Canadian mothers when born out of wedlock.

My mother's birth wasn't registered at an embassy and she was born in wedlock.

If any of the above is true and my mother was not entitled to be a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth it would mean it was not possible for her to apply for Canadian citizenship before I was born so therefore could the fact she wasn't a Canadian citizen/wasn't register as one be used against my application?

This question turned out longer then I expected so apologies for that but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mashulia_26]

Hi folks,
My grandmother was born in Quebec in 1929 to Irish born parents who had arrived in Canada a few months prior. They lived in Canada for approximately four years before returning to the Republic of Ireland (then called the Irish Free State) to settle permanently.

My mother was born in Ireland in 1963 and I was also born in Ireland in 1988.

My mother never applied to register her Canadian citizenship but she does plan to apply for a Canadian citizenship certificate in the coming months, which from what I can gather would be a fairly straight forward procedure as we have my grandmother's birth cert, what's less clear is if I would qualify for a citizen certificate once my mother receives hers. Even though I have no immediate, or indeed long term plans, to make use of Canadian citizenship I plan to submit an application to get a definitive answer providing there's any chance whatsoever I qualify. However, given the long processing time for certificates it would be nice to know sooner whether or not I likely qualify for citizenship, which is where I hoped you guys could help.

According to the “Am I a Canadian citizen” tool I'm likely not a citizen, this seems to be due to answering no to the question “did you parent apply for and was granted Canadian citizenship before your were born”. If I answer yes to this question it says I'm likely a citizen.

But could it not be argue since my mother can claim her citizenship through descent and not say through naturalisation that she was a Canadian citizen, or at least entitled to be one, at the time of my birth even if she had not formally registered her citizenship?

To further confuse matters it seems my grandmother may not have been a Canadian citizen between 1947 and 2015, as she may have been one of the so called 'Lost Canadians' due to not having British subject status on the 1 January 1947. However, I'm not sure about this, as I don't know what was required to lose one's British subject status. Would leaving Canada to live in Ireland be enough? From some cursory reading it seems Irish citizens didn't lose their British subject status until 1949 when Ireland officially became a republic – would having British subject status in 1947 but losing it afterwards cause a loss of Canadian citizenship?

However, even if my grandmother didn't lose her citizenship due to this law she, and by extension my mother, may have been ineligible for Canadian citizenship from 1947 to 2009 due to dual citizenship being disallowed. Under Irish law my grandmother was an Irish citizen at birth due to her father being an Irish citizen. However, my grandmother never took out an Irish passport or officially registered her Irish citizenship. It might also be worth mentioning my mother didn’t take out an Irish passport prior to my birth but she was of course an Irish citizen at birth.

Also according to this extract from Wikipedia it would seem my mother was not a Canadian citizen at birth or even entitled to be one.

My mother's birth wasn't registered at an embassy and she was born in wedlock.

If any of the above is true and my mother was not entitled to be a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth it would mean it was not possible for her to apply for Canadian citizenship before I was born so therefore could the fact she wasn't a Canadian citizen/wasn't register as one be used against my application?

This question turned out longer then I expected so apologies for that but any help would be greatly appreciated.

You are not a Canadian citizen and have to go through the naturalization if you want to become one, you do not qualify since you're the second generation born abroad. Why do you need canadian citizenship if you are not planning to live in Canada or to be connected to canada anyhow ?

 

[21Goose]

Hi folks,
My grandmother was born in Quebec in 1929 to Irish born parents who had arrived in Canada a few months prior. They lived in Canada for approximately four years before returning to the Republic of Ireland (then called the Irish Free State) to settle permanently.

My mother was born in Ireland in 1963 and I was also born in Ireland in 1988.

My mother never applied to register her Canadian citizenship but she does plan to apply for a Canadian citizenship certificate in the coming months, which from what I can gather would be a fairly straight forward procedure as we have my grandmother's birth cert, what's less clear is if I would qualify for a citizen certificate once my mother receives hers. Even though I have no immediate, or indeed long term plans, to make use of Canadian citizenship I plan to submit an application to get a definitive answer providing there's any chance whatsoever I qualify. However, given the long processing time for certificates it would be nice to know sooner whether or not I likely qualify for citizenship, which is where I hoped you guys could help.

According to the “Am I a Canadian citizen” tool I'm likely not a citizen, this seems to be due to answering no to the question “did you parent apply for and was granted Canadian citizenship before your were born”. If I answer yes to this question it says I'm likely a citizen.

But could it not be argue since my mother can claim her citizenship through descent and not say through naturalisation that she was a Canadian citizen, or at least entitled to be one, at the time of my birth even if she had not formally registered her citizenship?

To further confuse matters it seems my grandmother may not have been a Canadian citizen between 1947 and 2015, as she may have been one of the so called 'Lost Canadians' due to not having British subject status on the 1 January 1947. However, I'm not sure about this, as I don't know what was required to lose one's British subject status. Would leaving Canada to live in Ireland be enough? From some cursory reading it seems Irish citizens didn't lose their British subject status until 1949 when Ireland officially became a republic – would having British subject status in 1947 but losing it afterwards cause a loss of Canadian citizenship?

However, even if my grandmother didn't lose her citizenship due to this law she, and by extension my mother, may have been ineligible for Canadian citizenship from 1947 to 2009 due to dual citizenship being disallowed. Under Irish law my grandmother was an Irish citizen at birth due to her father being an Irish citizen. However, my grandmother never took out an Irish passport or officially registered her Irish citizenship. It might also be worth mentioning my mother didn’t take out an Irish passport prior to my birth but she was of course an Irish citizen at birth.

Also according to this extract from Wikipedia it would seem my mother was not a Canadian citizen at birth or even entitled to be one.

My mother's birth wasn't registered at an embassy and she was born in wedlock.

If any of the above is true and my mother was not entitled to be a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth it would mean it was not possible for her to apply for Canadian citizenship before I was born so therefore could the fact she wasn't a Canadian citizen/wasn't register as one be used against my application?

This question turned out longer then I expected so apologies for that but any help would be greatly appreciated.

You don't qualify as a Canadian citizen and will need to become a PR first if you wish to become Canadian.

 

[MissMisery]

You are not a Canadian citizen and have to go through the naturalization if you want to become one, you do not qualify since you're the second generation born abroad. Why do you need canadian citizenship if you are not planning to live in Canada or to be connected to canada anyhow ?

Just be nice to have the option to live there at some point in the future if my plans change, for the sake of the price of a citizenship certification there's no disadvantage to having dual citizenship. I always knew my granny was born in Canada but never gave citizenship a second thought until my mother had to recently send to Canada for her mother's birth cert for an unrelated matter and during the course of her inquiries on how to obtain the birth cert she happened to ask about citizenship for her and her children and was told she and her kids would qualify, so naturally my curiosity was piqued and I looked into more but came the conclusion the lady she was speaking to on the phone likely made an error which is understandable considering the complexities of Canadian citizenship law.

 

[hawk39]

But could it not be argue since my mother can claim her citizenship through descent and not say through naturalisation that she was a Canadian citizen, or at least entitled to be one, at the time of my birth even if she had not formally registered her citizenship?

Even though the law retroactively gave your mother citizenship, the generation limit simultaneously implemented with that law also prohibits you from deriving citizenship as a second generation.

However, I'm not sure about this, as I don't know what was required to lose one's British subject status. Would leaving Canada to live in Ireland be enough?

Generally, if you or your parents became citizens of another country, then you would lose your British subject status. If Ireland was also part of the British Dominion, then moving to Ireland would not result in losing British subject status.

From some cursory reading it seems Irish citizens didn't lose their British subject status until 1949 when Ireland officially became a republic – would having British subject status in 1947 but losing it afterwards cause a loss of Canadian citizenship?

Yes, because you were naturalizing to another country, and Canada did not allow dual citizenship until 1977.

If any of the above is true and my mother was not entitled to be a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth it would mean it was not possible for her to apply for Canadian citizenship before I was born so therefore could the fact she wasn't a Canadian citizen/wasn't register as one be used against my application?

Yes, even though your mother is retroactively eligible today, the generation limit prohibits you from deriving citizenship by descent as a second generation. The generation limit does not allow for exceptions due to the retroactivity, you will always be of the second generation. Without the generation limit, it would essentially make anyone that had a Canadian ancestor that did not formally renounce their British subject status or Canadian citizenship eligible for citizenship; blanket eligibility was not the intention for repatriating the "Lost Canadians" with the 2009 and 2015 Acts.

 

[paul2587]

Hi folks,
My grandmother was born in Quebec in 1929 to Irish born parents who had arrived in Canada a few months prior. They lived in Canada for approximately four years before returning to the Republic of Ireland (then called the Irish Free State) to settle permanently.

My mother was born in Ireland in 1963 and I was also born in Ireland in 1988.

My mother never applied to register her Canadian citizenship but she does plan to apply for a Canadian citizenship certificate in the coming months, which from what I can gather would be a fairly straight forward procedure as we have my grandmother's birth cert, what's less clear is if I would qualify for a citizen certificate once my mother receives hers. Even though I have no immediate, or indeed long term plans, to make use of Canadian citizenship I plan to submit an application to get a definitive answer providing there's any chance whatsoever I qualify. However, given the long processing time for certificates it would be nice to know sooner whether or not I likely qualify for citizenship, which is where I hoped you guys could help.

According to the “Am I a Canadian citizen” tool I'm likely not a citizen, this seems to be due to answering no to the question “did you parent apply for and was granted Canadian citizenship before your were born”. If I answer yes to this question it says I'm likely a citizen.

But could it not be argue since my mother can claim her citizenship through descent and not say through naturalisation that she was a Canadian citizen, or at least entitled to be one, at the time of my birth even if she had not formally registered her citizenship?

To further confuse matters it seems my grandmother may not have been a Canadian citizen between 1947 and 2015, as she may have been one of the so called 'Lost Canadians' due to not having British subject status on the 1 January 1947. However, I'm not sure about this, as I don't know what was required to lose one's British subject status. Would leaving Canada to live in Ireland be enough? From some cursory reading it seems Irish citizens didn't lose their British subject status until 1949 when Ireland officially became a republic – would having British subject status in 1947 but losing it afterwards cause a loss of Canadian citizenship?

However, even if my grandmother didn't lose her citizenship due to this law she, and by extension my mother, may have been ineligible for Canadian citizenship from 1947 to 2009 due to dual citizenship being disallowed. Under Irish law my grandmother was an Irish citizen at birth due to her father being an Irish citizen. However, my grandmother never took out an Irish passport or officially registered her Irish citizenship. It might also be worth mentioning my mother didn’t take out an Irish passport prior to my birth but she was of course an Irish citizen at birth.

Also according to this extract from Wikipedia it would seem my mother was not a Canadian citizen at birth or even entitled to be one.

My mother's birth wasn't registered at an embassy and she was born in wedlock.

If any of the above is true and my mother was not entitled to be a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth it would mean it was not possible for her to apply for Canadian citizenship before I was born so therefore could the fact she wasn't a Canadian citizen/wasn't register as one be used against my application?

This question turned out longer then I expected so apologies for that but any help would be greatly appreciated.

@MissMisery - I was in a similar situation to you about 9 years ago. My grandfather was born in Montreal as part of the Irish diaspora in 1920 but my father and I were both born outside Canada. My father is a Canadian citizen by descent but I applied and was told I wasn't because of the generational limit. There's unfortunately absolutely no way of getting around it; if you are a second generation born abroad you do not qualify for citizenship by descent. The good news is that if your mum does move to Canada she can sponsor you for permanent residency in Canada, which is a very easy path to citizenship if you want to spend 3 years in Canada. This is probably your best/easiest bet at this point.

 

[PMM]

Hi

@MissMisery - I was in a similar situation to you about 9 years ago. My grandfather was born in Montreal as part of the Irish diaspora in 1920 but my father and I were both born outside Canada. My father is a Canadian citizen by descent but I applied and was told I wasn't because of the generational limit. There's unfortunately absolutely no way of getting around it; if you are a second generation born abroad you do not qualify for citizenship by descent. The good news is that if your mum does move to Canada she can sponsor you for permanent residency in Canada, which is a very easy path to citizenship if you want to spend 3 years in Canada. This is probably your best/easiest bet at this point.

1. No, the OP is over 22 couldn't be sponsored.

 

[paul2587]

Hi



1. No, the OP is over 22 couldn't be sponsored.

Valid point; I didn't see what year she was born until I re-read. Disregard the sponsorship bit; the rest is still accurate.

 

[hawk39]

There's unfortunately absolutely no way of getting around it; if you are a second generation born abroad you do not qualify for citizenship by descent.

There is one exception, but I did not mention it in regards to the OP because it would not have applied to his/her situation, and that is if your grandparent was a Crown servant or in the armed forces at the time of your parent's birth. It would not have applied for the OP because his/herher grandmother was four years old when she moved with her family to Ireland and never went back.