Northern Rural Immigration Pilot Program

[canuck78]

But you can apply for citizenship after 3 continuous years living in Canada and then move wherever you want.

Yes that is currently true but obviously not what Canada actually wants when awarding someone citizenship.

 

[canuck78]

I agree but not everyone wants to be in Toronto, Winnipeg or the likes. Some of us like the thought of the slow pace of a small town. The program organisers probably feel it'll be easier for the new intakes to settle in if they already have familiar people there or are already familiar with the way of life in the towns. This way people are likely to stay. I suppose it's only common sense for the organisers to go this route. It's a win-win situation for them.

You are in the minority. Even the majority of people who apply for PNP land in the province and then move elsewhere right away. Some people have no desire to integrate into Canadian life and want to live within their own ethnic or religious group but get the benefits from living in Canada. That is why you have communities like Brampton, Richmond and Surrey. Canada needs to distribute new Canadians better. The ironic thing is that many would have a much better quality of life it they considered moving to smaller or mid-sized communities.

 

[canuck78]

No. I don't live in Canada. Just general research information I found online, even though it is not 100% true.

Let's just hope that other provinces will follow the case and will issue invitations without job offer.

There are plenty of other immigration programs that don’t require a job offer. Canada needs to attract immigrants for the jobs available. It works out better for both the immigrant and Canada. For example Canada has a surplus of pharmacists and dentists yet is admitting large volumes of dentists and pharmacists. It doesn’t benefit Canadian pharmacists or immigrating pharmacists if the salaries are decreasing and people are unable to find employment. In general the majority of crime in Canada is related to gangs, addiction and poverty. Although there are shootings in Toronto quite often this year the majority of people being shot are gang members and not innocent people. Unfortunately there is some crime in Saskatchewan due to aboriginal gangs and longterm issues with Canada’s aboriginal population that has led to lack of (good) housing, poverty, addiction issues, etc.

 

[canuck78]

I don't think the problem is online applications, it is because the requried sponsorship. As a Canadian university graduate, most of my graduating class got their jobs through online applications, not considering those people who have a connections to the companies. The hiring process usually consists of submitting CV/CL through company website, a personality test, phone interview and the final round of in-person interview. However, companies tend to favor the candidates who lived in or living in the city or the province, since they do not need to pay expensive relocation fee and the person is likely to stay longer. For example, when I applied for jobs, a lot of Alberta companies specific ask you if you have an Alberta driver's license. Additionally, all the application forms I filled out have one question asking if you can legally work in Canada without them sponsoring. In that sense, people generally don't get considered unless there is a real shortage. @Mustafa83 is 100% right about giving out work permit is a better idea comparing than giving out PR for people who can find a job.

PR allows people to grow the Canadian economy through entrepreneurship. If people need professional qualifications to be able to work they wouldn’t be able to apply. Some of the licensing requires work experience. Not a perfect system with one of the issues.

 

[canuck78]

That would be great if it was so. However, early indications show that this is not the case. But there is always hope that employers that participate in this program will come around and understand that applicants are abroad while applying and hence the time frame between the initial application and the first workday can be many months. Regarding your other points, you paint a very bleak picture. So, you are saying that improving probabilities whether someone will settle in that area will justify religious and racial profiling? There are already laws in place that invalidate even PR if an applicant who applied through a PNP or regional pilot decides that the specific region he/she initially settles does not work for him/her anymore. So, to me the profiling you propose opens pandora's box and strongly contradicts the values that Canada on a federal level is promoting. There is zero need to profile in terms of religious belief or which ethnic group has already settled and which not.

I think we can all agree that the regional programs focus on labor shortages of those regions and those are most likely not of the white-collar type. I don't think that is contentious. What is contentious is that the programs are promoted as some sort of viable pathways for families from abroad when the actual jobs pay minimum wage and are of the type that no other person locally wants to do. If you seriously think that an immigrant roofer somewhere in a town of 2000 people will be paid enough to feed a family then I think you are equally mistaken as the people you criticize who look at this program with the wrong job expectations. Many of those open jobs are jobs that are of very low skill level and pay very little and are usually performed by single/unmarried individuals in their early very early ages. Speaking of nurses or caregivers, no town of 1000 or so people has a hospital or elderly home and the only jobs such person would perform would be working in a mini private practice or at someone's home. Essentially this boils down to jobs that are of an equal level as a domestic caregiver, certainly not jobs that someone performs and that enable one to settle down. Domestic caregivers have their entire families back in their home countries and they earn a pittance and remit the little they earn to feed their families back home. One can certainly not speak of a job that earns enough to enable one to settle down.

I agree with you on the last point you made. Dishonesty of a few individuals should, however, not be generalized to a broad population. Yes, there are always some bad apples in the crowd but I think the large majority of people have realistic expectations of those rural communities and the specific lifestyle people lead there. What I criticize is how this program is advertised. It will be incredibly hard to secure a job offer from abroad and I do not believe this will change. This is the same problem with all PNP programs that require a valid job offer from a Canadian employer. Hardly any employer will issue a job offer for someone who currently lives abroad, period. This is based on empirical evidence. So, in the end, those specific programs that require a valid job offer do not solve any of the problems on either side. Someone who can easily travel to Canada will do so and with a lot of hard work and a healthy dose of luck will secure a job offer and get a temporary work permit and start working. After some time in the job, various opportunities arise to pursue PR. However, for all those, as you initially mentioned, that cannot easily visit Canada, those programs do not offer any opportunities at all. This, I think, is what most on this website do not understand. It is hard enough as a foreigner without residence and work permit to secure a job offer in Canada even with sought after skills and by showing up and interviewing in person. It is virtually impossible for anyone to do so remotely. Of course, there are a few who succeed but the reality is that they represent perhaps 1 or 2 in 100 cases.

The only programs that make sense are programs such as what SINP offers, a thorough vetting process that, however, does not require a valid job offer. The sponsored applicant will arrive and starts searching for jobs WITH A VALID WORK AND RESIDENCE PERMIT. That is what works. All other approaches succeed with equal opportunities as playing the lottery. But hey, there are enough desperate hopefuls out there who play the lottery, so I guess the provinces and government probably think why not catering to those desperate to fill our dirty jobs that nobody else wants. This is the reality and truth and it would be commendable if Canada and the Canadian provinces were more honest and forthcoming about this truth.

I wasn’t encouraging racial profiling at all. It is mostly the new PRs that are the ones who are not open to living in a city longterm unless there is a large community from their religion or ethnic group. You see tons of people on this forum daily stating they are looking to move only where there is a large XYZ population. Others resettling to another city because they want to be with members of their community. Lots of South East Asian immigrants only wanting to live in Brampton. Great example is many of the new Syrian PRs who had been sponsored by smaller communities. There have been lots of recent stories of people relocating because there wasn’t a mosque in their town or it was too hard to get halal food. Once the year was over many relocated. Many have actually settled in Windsor and there is now a large Syrian community, Lots of people relocating from Toronto as well due to the large community and lower cost of living, Employers and communities are trying to retain the new residents but understand why they want to leave. Instead of spending time training someone only to have them leave you try to anticipate whether this would be a good community for the worker and their family. If someone has only lived in very large cities there will be concerns about whether the person will want to stay longterm in a community of 5000 people. Unless the have actively sought out a quieter life then chances are they will miss living in an urban environment and will move as soon as possible.

Canadians are also living on minimum wage jobs. Both spouses may have to work in order to pay the bills in Canadian households. As long as the salaries are the same as for Canadians doing the same work and above minimum wage it is up to the applicant to decide whether immigration and that job would be a good idea. There may be sacrifices to be made but that also happens in Canadian homes. Your salary is likely to increase as you gain more experience, you may have to delay having children or have 2 children instead of 3 for financial reasons. These are issues all Canadian face. I think those who were trying to immigrate built up this program to be something it was not,

There are actually quite a lot of retirement homes in more rural and smaller communities so there is a lot of need for LPNs, PSW, etc. The cost to build in theses smaller areas is much lower and the rural and smaller communities tend to be aging communities. For example Kincardine, 3-4 hours outside Toronto, is known as a retirement destination. People leave Toronto after retirement for an area where the cost of living is lower and the pace of life is slower. Same thing as Niagara Falls/St Catherine’s area. There are hospitals there as well but they may do surgery there once a week and basic procedures only. You may be able to give birth there but an epidural may not be an option because they don’t have a full-time anesthesiologist. When there is a problem they are assessed and sent by helicopter to a larger hospital if necessary.

 

[Mustafa83]

I agree but not everyone wants to be in Toronto, Winnipeg or the likes. Some of us like the thought of the slow pace of a small town. The program organisers probably feel it'll be easier for the new intakes to settle in if they already have familiar people there or are already familiar with the way of life in the towns. This way people are likely to stay. I suppose it's only common sense for the organisers to go this route. It's a win-win situation for them.

I'm with you on this one. Big cities are not for me, even though I live in a city with 4,000,000 people. For me big cities mean spending hours every day in traffic, high cost of living (especially housing).

Small community in Canada have everything that you need for daily life, you will not spend much time commuting, plus you can do remote work as well in you spare time. As I understand a small decent apartment for a family of 3 in let's say Winnipeg would cost you around 1,500 - 2,000$, while the same apartment/house in a small community is unlikely to be more than 1,000$.

And if you get bored you can drive once or twice a month to a big city and spend a weekend there if you miss big shopping malls etc.

 

[optimaxx]

Any update on RNIP? or on how someone outside of Canada can get a job offer and recommendation from any of the designated communities?

According to the news, RNIP will start to accept applications in December 2019. The initial communities accepting applications is located in Ontario, however, it is predicted that the list will be expanded as all the partaking communities start implementing the pilot.

thanks

 

[porosh17]

I don't think the problem is online applications, it is because the requried sponsorship. As a Canadian university graduate, most of my graduating class got their jobs through online applications, not considering those people who have a connections to the companies. The hiring process usually consists of submitting CV/CL through company website, a personality test, phone interview and the final round of in-person interview. However, companies tend to favor the candidates who lived in or living in the city or the province, since they do not need to pay expensive relocation fee and the person is likely to stay longer. For example, when I applied for jobs, a lot of Alberta companies specific ask you if you have an Alberta driver's license. Additionally, all the application forms I filled out have one question asking if you can legally work in Canada without them sponsoring. In that sense, people generally don't get considered unless there is a real shortage. @Mustafa83 is 100% right about giving out work permit is a better idea comparing than giving out PR for people who can find a job.

You are right! Since you are a Canadian graduate, you will be selected for sure if you could apply. Beside this program information I did search for LMIA, that was really one " black hole". Offcourse this program is dedicated to keep retained potential workers who will be stay in community for long time. "Sponsorship" is MUST, but its offcourse not for " Offshore" people like us. This this " sponsorship" has not been mentioned technically in RNIP.

 

[porosh17]

No. I don't live in Canada. Just general research information I found online, even though it is not 100% true.

Let's just hope that other provinces will follow the case and will issue invitations without job offer.

It would be wasting of time I think.

 

[porosh17]

I would say it again but in my opinion it would be a good option to have this program without job offer.

Having some basic criteria and issuing work permit for several years, but limiting its validity to a certain community.

So let's say you have certain experience and education, satisfy other requirements then you are granted a work permit that would entitle you to work for any employer in let's say Altona for a period of 5 years.

Since you can apply for citizenship after continuous 3 years in Canada such option would actually be equal to PR.

Kindly read the RNIP application criteria, " A community will only nominate the candidates who will get to manage a solid job offer and could obtain 70 score out of 100". ECA and IELTS is must here.

 

[canuck78]

I'm with you on this one. Big cities are not for me, even though I live in a city with 4,000,000 people. For me big cities mean spending hours every day in traffic, high cost of living (especially housing).

Small community in Canada have everything that you need for daily life, you will not spend much time commuting, plus you can do remote work as well in you spare time. As I understand a small decent apartment for a family of 3 in let's say Winnipeg would cost you around 1,500 - 2,000$, while the same apartment/house in a small community is unlikely to be more than 1,000$.

And if you get bored you can drive once or twice a month to a big city and spend a weekend there if you miss big shopping malls etc.

Living in Winnipeg would be considered living in a a big city and an urban area. I guess if you look at the whole of Canada you may call it a mid-sized city but it is one of the bigger cities in Western Canada and certainly one of the big cities of the Prairies.

 

[Mustafa83]

Kindly read the RNIP application criteria, " A community will only nominate the candidates who will get to manage a solid job offer and could obtain 70 score out of 100". ECA and IELTS is must here.

I did not say that job offer is not required, just said it would be good to have a program without one.

 

[nigchanelo]

Hi guys~ My husband and I are processing through this program too. Just wondering is it a necessary to get a job offer through their community home page? or I could just find a job through like LinkedIn, Indeed etc.?

 

[Matt173]

That is EXACTLY what Canada wants. Read the Canadian Citizenship Act. You may be referring to something else, such as that provinces who sponsor applicants want those applicants to settle in their province/region. However, Canada very clearly stipulates that anyone who qualifies to become Citizen can apply to become one and can move anywhere he/she likes. There is nothing whatsoever that speaks against that, not even if someone obtained permanent residence through a regional pilot program or PNP. Or is it fine to nail you down in some town and force you to stay there till the day you die even if things just don't work out there for you?

Yes that is currently true but obviously not what Canada actually wants when awarding someone citizenship.

 

[Matt173]

Who told you that? Sorry but I smell nonsense. If that was remotely true then all the PNP programs would be closed by now because they would not work out. The majority of people who apply for PNP do not move out of the sponsoring province right away. In fact, Saskatchewan and other provinces nowadays follow up and contact those whom they sponsored several months and even a year later to obtain proof they are still residing in the province.

You are contradicting yourself now several times. In an earlier post you lauded the idea that the regional pilot gives preferential treatment to those whose ethnicity or religious background is already represented in the township/city because it would make integration easier and more likely. I vehemently opposed the idea and presented arguments to support my point. Now you basically look down upon people who want to live within alike communities? How about we place you in a community where your reglion is not represented, where nobody hailed from your ethnic background? I think its a fundamental personal freedom and right to want to live in a community of one's liking. Perhaps you gotta stop judging others' motivations and idea of their own pursuit for happiness so harshly and instead just focus on the facts.

The reason many of the PNP programs and regional pilots in provinces that are not the most popular among immigrants is because the programs are poorly structured. Preference should be given to those who express and can prove a strong desire to settle there regardless of ethnic or religious background. So, I cannot get enough points or my application is received poorly because my religious and ethnic background does not match with one of other already settled immigrants even if I can demonstrate and otherwise prove that I have a strong desire to settle there and am willing to invest in property and obtain employment? It is very easy to verify that intents are followed up with actions. Look at the BC PNP programs for entrepreneurs such as the BC Entrepreneur pilot. The province and applicant sign a performance agreement (here it can be an agreed action plan) which is reviewed a year later and if the applicant fulfills the agreement then he/she is granted PNP support for PR. When I express strong desire to settle in a township and bring valuable skills that are in demand there but basically have a very low chance because my ethnic background does not match with that of other already settled immigrants or their religious background or when someone is given preference for the fact alone that he/she has some distant relative or even just a friend then let me be very blunt with you, I will say to that township "stick it up your butthole, I am not buying into your BS program, I will then look elsewhere where my application is judged and assessed on factors that are 100% correlating with my own achievements, skills, work ethics, and other qualitative factors that are in my control. I don't want to settle in a township that disadvantages my application because I pray in the other wind direction or was born with the wrong skin color. I can easily "buy" a friend in a town and score some extra points, but I don't do it because I am proud of my ethical and moral values. The problem is that it is easy to "cheat" additional points because the assessment metric was so poorly chosen.

I tell you what, and this might be controversial, but IMHO one large reason why many of those programs failed was that way too much preference has been given to people that hail from countries and societies where moral and ethical values are virtually non-existent. One should not be surprised to get disappointed by people who have a very low sense of ethnic and moral values.

You are in the minority. Even the majority of people who apply for PNP land in the province and then move elsewhere right away. Some people have no desire to integrate into Canadian life and want to live within their own ethnic or religious group but get the benefits from living in Canada. That is why you have communities like Brampton, Richmond and Surrey. Canada needs to distribute new Canadians better. The ironic thing is that many would have a much better quality of life it they considered moving to smaller or mid-sized communities.