Family does not meet residency obligation

[vdp]

Hi all, I have a query regarding PR renewal for my family. We landed 3 years ago but my family only stayed in Toronto to complete the landing formalities and left after a week for India. Since then they haven't come back at all. Now after making sure that our parents in India are taken care of, my wife and son are finally landing in Toronto on Feb 1, 2020. They have valid PR cards, but I just wanted to see if anyone knows if there would be a problem at the port of entry as the immigration officer may stop them as the residency requirements of 730 days for PR renewal eventually will not be met.

I got to know this today after calling CIC that the dates on the PR cards are not for calculating residency requirements but merely for the validity of the card. I spoke to CIC twice today and got conflicting answers. One time the agent told me that since you are a first time PR, you will be stopped at the border for staying away from Canada for so long and may be asked questions related to meeting your residency obligations, in short you'll be given very less leniency and your PR status in Canada may be revoked. This agent said that I can appeal the decision of the immigration officer but it is along drawn out process.

The other agent said that since my family has a valid PR card they'll be allowed to enter but they should not initiate any conversations / communications with CBSA or CIC and let their PR cards expire, once they meet the 730 day residency obligation they can renew their cards and can maintain their PR status.

Here are the dates:
- Initial landing on 17 Oct 2016
- Family left for India on 22 Oct 2016
- Traveling back to Toronto on 1-Feb 2020; the three year period ends on 22 Oct 2019 (which is 12 days from today)
- PR card has expiry date of 8 Jan 2022

What should I be doing?
- Should I move their travel plans to sometime before Oct 22, 2019 and make sure they meet hte residency requirements the right way? This is the most difficult step as she has to wrap up a lot of stuff and moving so soon may be a big issue
- Should I stick to the original plan of moving on Feb 1, 2020? I can consult an immigration lawyer in the interim.
- Should I ask them to give up their PR status and I re-sponsor them next year after I become a citizen?

 

[k.h.p.]

Do not give up PR status until it is your absolute last option.

If it's possible to move travel dates, I would. If it isn't, you need to be prepared to tell the full truthful story about why the breach of the RO occurred. CBSA officers know it takes a while to move to Canada, but being away for nearly three and a half years may be stretching it. Your family may get questioned on entry, but if they have a reason for the breach, they may be let through.

If they're let through despite the breach, don't leave Canada until the RO is met again. Don't attempt to do anything that prompts a review of PR status until the RO is met. Don't renew cards until the RO is met.

If you are reported, talk to a lawyer and find a way to mitigate.

 

[vdp]

Thanks khp.
We can't move the travel dates as my wife has to take care of a lot of things before moving. So assuming they are landing on Feb 1, 2020. They'll mostly have RO breach at the port of entry.

Should I just let them give up their PR status this way and not appeal their decision and sponsor them fresh? I feel it'll take another 6-12 months but they'll start fresh with their residency. Now would the RO breach in the former residency obligation period have a negative impact on the new application? I'm meeting a lawyer on Oct 16 and will take a decision after that.

 

[Bs65]

As above should only give up PR status as a last resort and take chances of not being reported on re entry and may just be waived through with still valid PR cards.

As PRs will still be allowed into the country regardless and if reported the decision is made for you and there would be possibility of appeal which will take time anyway, If not reported then everything will be good as long as stay put for 2 plus years.

Nobody here of course can do any more than speculate but doubtful any previous failure of RO will have any impact on a new application, although of course with immigration anything is possible even a rejection, there are no guarantees

 

[Pamelaluz84]

I left Canada at the age of 14, I want to go back to Canada, I am now 35. Obviously I’m too old to apply for a PRTD. I understand I have better chances in going through the US border. The question is how can my family come with me, my husband and 3 children. I want to live again in Canada and stay permanently. Help and guidance please

 

[zardoz]

I left Canada at the age of 14, I want to go back to Canada, I am now 35. Obviously I’m too old to apply for a PRTD. I understand I have better chances in going through the US border. The question is how can my family come with me, my husband and 3 children. I want to live again in Canada and stay permanently. Help and guidance please

This question is inconsistent with your previous posts. Please explain.
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/posts/8165964/

 

[Salmansalat]

Hi all, I have a query regarding PR renewal for my family. We landed 3 years ago but my family only stayed in Toronto to complete the landing formalities and left after a week for India. Since then they haven't come back at all. Now after making sure that our parents in India are taken care of, my wife and son are finally landing in Toronto on Feb 1, 2020. They have valid PR cards, but I just wanted to see if anyone knows if there would be a problem at the port of entry as the immigration officer may stop them as the residency requirements of 730 days for PR renewal eventually will not be met.

I got to know this today after calling CIC that the dates on the PR cards are not for calculating residency requirements but merely for the validity of the card. I spoke to CIC twice today and got conflicting answers. One time the agent told me that since you are a first time PR, you will be stopped at the border for staying away from Canada for so long and may be asked questions related to meeting your residency obligations, in short you'll be given very less leniency and your PR status in Canada may be revoked. This agent said that I can appeal the decision of the immigration officer but it is along drawn out process.

The other agent said that since my family has a valid PR card they'll be allowed to enter but they should not initiate any conversations / communications with CBSA or CIC and let their PR cards expire, once they meet the 730 day residency obligation they can renew their cards and can maintain their PR status.

Here are the dates:
- Initial landing on 17 Oct 2016
- Family left for India on 22 Oct 2016
- Traveling back to Toronto on 1-Feb 2020; the three year period ends on 22 Oct 2019 (which is 12 days from today)
- PR card has expiry date of 8 Jan 2022

What should I be doing?
- Should I move their travel plans to sometime before Oct 22, 2019 and make sure they meet hte residency requirements the right way? This is the most difficult step as she has to wrap up a lot of stuff and moving so soon may be a big issue
- Should I stick to the original plan of moving on Feb 1, 2020? I can consult an immigration lawyer in the interim.
- Should I ask them to give up their PR status and I re-sponsor them next year after I become a citizen?

Hey vdp,
You dont need to worry. Just tell them to confidently answer the questions, stating that you are living in Canada, waiting for them. No need to such drastic measures such as giviing up PR. What I did for my mom was that I paid an imm coonsultant to stay stand by for her that if she gets interrogated at the airport a lot, then he can come in to the aiport and speak to them (like actually come to the immigration desks - they can do that when they are licensed). I gave him a couple of hundred bucks for that. But they didnt ask her too many questions, so she just came in and is living legally.

 

[canuck78]

Hey vdp,
You dont need to worry. Just tell them to confidently answer the questions, stating that you are living in Canada, waiting for them. No need to such drastic measures such as giviing up PR. What I did for my mom was that I paid an imm coonsultant to stay stand by for her that if she gets interrogated at the airport a lot, then he can come in to the aiport and speak to them (like actually come to the immigration desks - they can do that when they are licensed). I gave him a couple of hundred bucks for that. But they didnt ask her too many questions, so she just came in and is living legally.

An immigration consultant will not be able to enter the airport and deal with immigration.

 

[Cruiser81]

Hi All,

I have an urgent inquiry regarding my family’s PR renewal. We landed in Sep 2015 then they went back to Egypt and never come back. Now they are planning to come back to Canada and settle permanently. I called IRCC and they told me that the officer at POE may stop them and they have to convince him that they are intending to stay in Canada permanently as they stayed so long outside the country and they didn’t meet the residency obligations. And if he didn’t get convinced he will cancel their PR statues and let them into the country as visitors. In this case, it would be a big loss as they will have to deport Canada and I will have to sponsor them again.

I referred to a consultant, he offered me a solution through “PR card renewal with humanitarian and compassionate arguments “to let them into Canada and then they will renew their PR after 2 years in Canada.

Note : My father in law is suffering from Liver Cancer since 3 years .

However a friend of mine told me there is no need to through this process and since their PR is still, valid no one could prevent them from entering the country or provoke their statues.

Now I’m very confused and I need urgent advise to go for one of these alternatives.

Below important dates.

- Initial landing on 29 Sep 2015.
- The family left for Egypt on 17 Oct 2015.
- PR card has an expiry date of 13 Nov 2020.


Thanks in advance.

Mahmoud

 

[21Goose]

Your friend is incorrect.

The expiry date on the PR card has NOTHING to do with your status as a PR. The status as a PR lasts for a lifetime - as long as you keep meeting your obligations. One of the obligations requires a PR to stay in Canada for at least two years out of every five. In your family's case, they should have stayed for 730 days between 29 Sep, 2015 - 29 Sep 2020.

Clearly, they didn't stay that long. They stayed ~19 days. Now, there is not enough time to return and stay to complete two years before Sep 2020. So they will be in breach of the Residency Obligation by a lot of days.

What IRCC told you is accurate. There are three possible scenarios:

1. When they land, no one asks them anything, and they are allowed to enter with no issues. This is the very best case scenario. If this happens, then all they need to do is remain in Canada for at least two whole years before they attempt to travel and/or renew their PR card. If they travel before two years pass, the whole issue starts again.

2. When they land, the CBSA officer informs them that they are in breach of their RO. At this point, your family is able to successfully convince the officer that they are now going to stay in Canada for good, and that they did not mean to breach RO, but were forced to (family troubles, ill health, etc). The officer accepts the argument, and lets them in with a warning. If this happens, it's also a good outcome. Again, your family will need to stay for two whole years before attempting to travel.

3. Worst case scenario is that the officer rejects their argument and begins the process to revoke their PR. The officer will make it clear that this is happening and will give you some paperwork that tells you the same thing. They will still be allowed into Canada, and you will have 60 days to appeal this decision. You will need to engage a lawyer and try and fight this with the Immigration Appeal Division. If you lose, or choose not to appeal, your family will lose PR status and become foreign nationals again, and you would need to sponsor them all over again.

If you win, it's the same as case 2 & 3 - they will still be PR, and will need to stay in Canada for two whole years before they try and travel.

The H&C will not really apply here. Their cards are currently valid, and they can travel on them. Renewing the card does not remove the residency obligation. Not sure what the consultant is talking about.

The time to make the H&C argument is at the border, if CBSA stops them. That's when they need to talk about the reasons why they didn't meet their RO. Alternatively, you make the argument when you appeal the decision to revoke their PR.

Now, which of the three scenarios is most likely to happen? That's impossible to say - it depends on the CBSA officer, the time of day, how lucky your family is, etc. If I was to put percentages, I would say the following, based on what I've read on the forum.

Case 1 (free and clear): 10-15%
Case 2 (stopped, but allowed in with a warning): 30-40%
Case 3 (PR revoked): 45-60%

But that's just a guess.

 

[21Goose]

Hey vdp,
You dont need to worry. Just tell them to confidently answer the questions, stating that you are living in Canada, waiting for them. No need to such drastic measures such as giviing up PR. What I did for my mom was that I paid an imm coonsultant to stay stand by for her that if she gets interrogated at the airport a lot, then he can come in to the aiport and speak to them (like actually come to the immigration desks - they can do that when they are licensed). I gave him a couple of hundred bucks for that. But they didnt ask her too many questions, so she just came in and is living legally.

You got scammed. An Immigration Consultant has no special right to enter the airport and talk to CBSA.

 

[canuck78]

How long have you spent in Canada? Your wife should travel with information showing that her father needed medical care and hospitalization she and no other family member was in Egypt. One of the issues you may face is that they never actually settled in Canada and had to return to Egypt to carafe for the father. Did the father get cured or pass away very recently and that is why they can now move? I would bring proof of either.