That's not what you originally said...
PS. I'm done with this. The OP has the information needed.
my pr card expiring while waiting for oath date
- Thread starter india2canada2
- Start date
PR card holders cannot fly to Canada without a PRTD or a PR Card. Having a green card does not matter. I'm not going to argue with you since you clearly don't know the rules, but this is for OP.
You can fly to the US, and then cross into Canada over a land border. You just can't fly direct to Canada.
Really? without the green card, he can just fly to the US? maybe, if he has a US visa exempt passport... Wow!!! Pardon my ignorance for not knowing that Indian passport holders (I'm assuming he has an Indian passport) are allowed to just fly to the US without visa or green card.
you really know the rules, I guessIf you read my post - you'll see that I said he can't fly to Canada with a US green card. The airline will not let him board a flight to Canada, which is what you were stating in your previous posts.Really? without the green card, he can just fly to the US? maybe, if he has a US visa exempt passport... Wow!!! Pardon my ignorance for not knowing that Indian passport holders (I'm assuming he has an Indian passport) are allowed to just fly to the US without visa or green card.
Yes, I do know the rules. Being snarky isn't really helpful to anyone, but if you want to do that instead of helping other people, you do that. I'll just ignore you - and you can feel free to ignore me.
Why not take the time to understand what @21Goose wrote. Fly to US with Green card since he can't fly straight to Canada without PR card. Drive to the Canadian border and enter Canada as PR. What's difficult to understand here?Really? without the green card, he can just fly to the US? maybe, if he has a US visa exempt passport... Wow!!! Pardon my ignorance for not knowing that Indian passport holders (I'm assuming he has an Indian passport) are allowed to just fly to the US without visa or green card.
You said the green card doesn't matter, it matters because he still has to go to the US, therefore it's relevant. And my original post says: "I think" did I say I'm sure?
why didn't you just ignore me in the first place? the green card is RELEVANT not in the way I first phrased my opinion but it's still relevant for the OP to be able to come back to Canada
Why not take the time to understand that they said the green card doesn't matter, it mattered not in the way I saw it first but it matters, what's so difficult to understand that it does matter to the OP. If he didn't have a green card could he just fly to the US?
Mister... the incorrect post you wrote below started the exchange between you and @21Goose
Your wrote
"I think you can still enter Canada using your green card, so you don't have much to worry about.
From cic.gc.ca
As a U.S. Green Card holder, you do not need a visitor visa to travel to Canada. However, you are expected to have an eTA if you plan to fly to or transit through Canada.
When flying to Canada, you will need to present:
- proof of status in the U.S. (such as a valid Green Card), and
- your valid passport that you used to apply for your eTA.
When travelling by land or sea directly from the U.S., you will only need to provide proof of your U.S. lawful permanent resident status (such as your Green Card). "
@21Goose tried to correct your factually incorrect post and that began your needless argument. You are the one who got the facts wrong.
"I think you can still enter Canada using your green card, so you don't have much to worry about.
I said "I think" and in the end he can, but not by flying directly to Canada, this discussion started with the relevancy of the green card to enter Canada, albeit not by flying but by land border crossing. RELEVANCY of the green card on ways he can enter Canada without the PR card
It's been fun but it's starting to get tedious...
Ciao
"Just wondering what happens when my PR card expires while waiting for oath date."
As others have correctly stated, you do not need a currently valid PR card EXCEPT for the purpose of boarding a direct flight to Canada from abroad. So you do not need to do anything about your expiring PR card UNLESS you want one to facilitate your travel to Canada from abroad.
A PR with an application for citizenship in process can apply for and be issued a new PR card. BUT the PR needs to physically be IN Canada to make that application.
TRAVELING TO or ENTERING Canada
Also as correctly stated by others (except the somewhat bizarre sideshow prosecuted by @Fido911), since you are a Canadian PR, a U.S. Green Card is NOT relevant for purposes of TRAVELING TO or ENTERING Canada.
As a PR, you need a valid passport PLUS either a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document to fly directly to Canada.
As a PR you do NOT need any particular documents to ENTER Canada once you arrive at a PoE, just sufficient documents to establish your identity and status, and for this your passport plus expired PR card should easily suffice.
If you do not have a valid PR card, you can apply for a PR Travel Document which will allow you to board a flight destined for Canada. OR if you are able to travel via the U.S., which it appears you are, you can fly to the U.S. and then travel to a land-border-crossing to enter Canada.
As others have emphasized, your passport plus expired PR card should easily suffice at the PoE.
PROCESSING DELAYS and DOCUMENT REQUESTS
Apart from logistical issues related to expired PR card and facilitating travel to Canada, presumably to attend an oath ceremony, you describe multiple RISK factors which may explain why you have encountered non-routine processing including multiple document requests and a lengthy timeline. "Then comes the fun. One document request after another and thousands of dollars spent nothing happened so far. First they said show me your travel details (they could have asked that before the interview which they did not); then comes three months later your partner's fingerprints expired do it again (which they could have asked when they asked for travel details) then comes more document request. It has been three months since we submitted all the documents."
The fact that you are living abroad while the application is in process is a well-known, oft-discussed RISK factor, tending to elevate the risk of non-routine processing and increase concerns about issues like proof of actual physical presence. While the negative influence of this factor appears to have been muted some in the last few years, and there are those who adamantly assert it should NOT have any influence, just the impression it makes alone does NOT help, and that is apart from reasonable inferences, potentially negative inferences, arising from ongoing ties abroad including actually residing abroad.
Frankly, living abroad and asking Canadian officials to grant the privilege of Canadian citizenship is kind of asking to be investigated. Notwithstanding more than a few views, at least in this forum, that purport to claim otherwise.
"I have Indian passport and green card."
A U.S. Green Card is another obvious RISK factor. Especially given the more strict requirements the U.S. imposes for keeping GC status. Having valid GC status strongly suggests extended periods of residence in the U.S. Not in Canada. Obviously raising the question: how did this individual meet the actual physical presence requirements?
Here too many may assert that having a GC should not have any influence. But if IRCC has questions or concerns about the proof that an applicant was actually physically present in Canada as required, ongoing ties in other countries is very relevant, and especially ongoing ties suggesting ongoing periods of residence in other countries.
"I had to postpone the date . . . "
Not sure what this is in reference to. But if you had to postpone an event scheduled by IRCC, or postpone responding to a request for IRCC, that is also another RISK factor. Reasonable explanations timely given generally resolve questions, but the impression made gets more complicated if there are other reasons for concern, like significant ongoing ties to residing abroad.
Wrinkles tend to have a cumulative impact. One or three small wrinkles tend to cause little or no problem. Those same wrinkles in combination with others, and especially if IRCC PERCEIVES reasons-to-question-physical-presence, can cumulatively bear significant negative weight.
". . . and thousands of dollars spent nothing happened so far."
Not sure what you have spent thousands of dollars for. Beyond the application fees, some photocopying costs, and mailing costs, applications for citizenship generally have only minimal other expenses. Sure, some applicants have additional costs like those for getting authenticated translation of passport stamps, but such costs should not approach "thousands of dollars."
". . . they said show me your travel details (they could have asked that before the interview which they did not)."
Citizenship application processing proceeds much in the same way IRCC and CBSA proceed generally: minimizing costs and work-hours employing what has been determined to be the most efficient ROUTINE processing AND THEN only adding in those non-routine tasks IF and when facts or circumstances trigger the need to include those.
In particular, the vast majority of citizenship applicants are NOT asked for additional travel details. There is a five to ten minute interview, only part of which is focused on travel history, and IRCC is satisfied the applicant has met the burden of proving actual physical presence.
IRCC does not waste its resources asking for, and examining, additional travel details from all two hundred thousand plus applicants, per year, but rather will screen what is submitted and determine what is verified in that short interview, and then make additional requests from the ten or fifteen thousand for whom there are still questions.
ALL THAT SAID . . .
Hard to discern if there are some outstanding issues lurking in your citizenship application. Assuming your responses to the requests for additional documents adequately meets your burden of proving all the qualifying elements, especially the physical presence requirement, you may very well be on track to receive an invitation to attend the oath in the near future.
But given just the glimpse of circumstances you reveal here, the non-routine processing and some delays should NOT have been a surprise.
Main thing to be aware, going forward, is that IF you are scheduled to attend the oath, it is very important to make that scheduled event without postponing it. This could be difficult if the amount of notice you get is short . . . it can be as short as just three weeks . . . particularly if you no longer have a valid PR card and will need to quickly arrange travel via the U.S.
It has only been a year so far, but it is also worth noting that in the past some non-routine cases have dragged on for years. In the meantime a PR must continue to comply with the PR Residency Obligation. Especially if there is a Conservative government after this year's election, it warrants a reminder that the last time the Conservatives formed the government there were many citizenship applicants perceived to be abroad who encountered such long timelines it appeared that the government was deliberately delaying processing to see if the applicant would breach the Residency Obligation and thereby provide cause to deny the application. Just a heads-up.
Bottom-line: IRCC does NOT make it easy, and in some ways overtly makes things more difficult, for citizenship applicants who are living outside Canada. Should be NO surprise. Obviously the applicant abroad needs to take extra precautions to avoid certain pitfalls, and this especially includes making sure to get all NOTICES TIMELY, and it especially means NOT missing a scheduled event.
Regarding the Sideshow:
In particular, it is NOT correct, for EITHER a visa-exempt passport or GC, that EITHER means the individual is "entitled to cross the border." Foreign Nationals (FNs) with a visa-exempt passport, or a U.S. GC, do NOT have any right, privilege, or entitlement to enter Canada. They must apply for permission to enter Canada from proper Canadian border officials, officials who have wide discretion to DENY the FN permission to enter Canada. Way shy of being "entitled to cross the border."
Here's the part others were trying to help you understand: a Canadian PR is a Canadian and NOT a Foreign National. A Canadian PR cannot (not properly anyway) apply to physically enter Canada as a visitor. Only a Foreign National can properly apply for and be granted permission to enter Canada with visitor status.
Thus, the following in particular is NOT correct:
No, a Canadian PR cannot apply for entry into Canada based on holding a U.S. Green Card.
Moreover, as one or three others correctly explained, even though no particular documents are necessary to establish having PR status during a PoE examination, presenting an expired PR card will generally suffice.
The "MAIN" thing at the PoE is to establish identity (passport is best) and establish PR status (expired PR card will do it, but a CoPR or other documents can help, including a Canadian drivers license, recognizing that proof of identity will almost always allow the PoE officials to verify the traveler's status as a Canadian PR in their system).
Finally, again as others have tried to emphasize, a PR is a Canadian who is entitled to enter Canada. A PR has NO need to show status in any other country. A PR showing a GC at a Canadian PoE accomplishes ZERO. A PR presenting a GC at the PoE is functionally the same as a Canadian citizen presenting a U.S. GC to Canadian border officials.
The U.S. Green Card (GC) is "like having a visa exempt passport... you are entitled to cross the border by virtue of having a green card."
It is correct that a U.S. GC is like having a visa-exempt passport, but this is ONLY true for Foreign Nationals not Canadian PRs; the individual is authorized to enter Canada (without need to make a formal visa application) but that does NOT include permission to actually enter Canada.
In particular, it is NOT correct, for EITHER a visa-exempt passport or GC, that EITHER means the individual is "entitled to cross the border." Foreign Nationals (FNs) with a visa-exempt passport, or a U.S. GC, do NOT have any right, privilege, or entitlement to enter Canada. They must apply for permission to enter Canada from proper Canadian border officials, officials who have wide discretion to DENY the FN permission to enter Canada. Way shy of being "entitled to cross the border."
Here's the part others were trying to help you understand: a Canadian PR is a Canadian and NOT a Foreign National. A Canadian PR cannot (not properly anyway) apply to physically enter Canada as a visitor. Only a Foreign National can properly apply for and be granted permission to enter Canada with visitor status.
Thus, the following in particular is NOT correct:
" . . . my MAIN point is he can still ENTER Canada using his green card"
No, a Canadian PR cannot apply for entry into Canada based on holding a U.S. Green Card.
Moreover, as one or three others correctly explained, even though no particular documents are necessary to establish having PR status during a PoE examination, presenting an expired PR card will generally suffice.
The "MAIN" thing at the PoE is to establish identity (passport is best) and establish PR status (expired PR card will do it, but a CoPR or other documents can help, including a Canadian drivers license, recognizing that proof of identity will almost always allow the PoE officials to verify the traveler's status as a Canadian PR in their system).
Finally, again as others have tried to emphasize, a PR is a Canadian who is entitled to enter Canada. A PR has NO need to show status in any other country. A PR showing a GC at a Canadian PoE accomplishes ZERO. A PR presenting a GC at the PoE is functionally the same as a Canadian citizen presenting a U.S. GC to Canadian border officials.
Canadian PR can sponsor parents for PR, US greencard can't sponsor parents. so if you want your parents to enjoy Canadian free health care. PR is the way to go.
if Canadian PR can't sponsor parents or Canadian health care is not free, then PR value will drop significantly.
if Canadian PR can't sponsor parents or Canadian health care is not free, then PR value will drop significantly.
parent sponsorship is lottery system, if you are that lucky you may win lotto max as well.
2bed-2 bath apartments are out of reach for 95% canadians living in toronto/vancouver. 40% new immigrants are staying in basements with kids, resulting in health issues.
so if someone wants to lower ones life standard by moving from usa to canada then all the best to him/her. better to face h1b uncertainty than to live in third world conditions in first world country.
For ppl from third world countries (poor living conditions) or europe/new zealand (match-box size apartments), immigration makes sense.
As I said, truth is stranger than fiction.
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